2011 4.6 Excessive front tire wear

[tdarlington]

I have a 2011 4.6 sedan with just under 23,000 miles.
Unfortunately I have never performed tire rotation.
I have maintained the recommended pressure in all 4 tires (easy with TPMS).
Yesterday I discovered that the rear tires were at the wear bars on the inside.
The front tires appeared to still have 5-10,000 miles of tread.
Today I had the rear tires replaced with Y rated Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's.
The tire dealer informed me that the front tires are suffering from toe related excessive wear.
Upon arriving home I examined the front tires with the wheels turned hard over.
Both the inside and the outside of both front tires have excessive wear.
I would have thought that a toe issue would have caused excessive wear on either the inside or outside but not both.
What is causing this?

 

[homeofstone]

Not rotating the tires is the main cause.

 

[mikec]

Shoulder wear is typically caused by underinflation. The center part of the tread flexes inwards and doesn't support as much of the vehicle weight as it ought to... the sides end up taking that load. Unless the TPMS is different for 2011 models compared to my 2009 model, the TPMS warning comes on at a rather low tire pressure - several psi below normal "cold" tire pressures. It's not a reliable way to know if the tires have enough air. Instead, the stock TPMS system alerts you to dangerously low tire pressures.

Toe issues lead to a "feathering" wear on the tire. Take your palm and run it around the tread both forwards and backwards... if the tread "grabs" more in one direction than the other, this is a type of feathering wear. The individual tread blocks end up with a saw tooth pattern if you look across the tread. Now move your hand across the tread from the inside of the tire to the outside - basically crossing the tread. If there is more grab/snag feeling in on direction than the other, the tread "bands" around the tire circumference are feathers. If you stand behind or in front of the tire and look at the top, you may see the saw tooth pattern running from the inside edge to the outside of the tire.

mike c.

 

[tdarlington]

Shoulder wear is typically caused by underinflation. The center part of the tread flexes inwards and doesn't support as much of the vehicle weight as it ought to... the sides end up taking that load. Unless the TPMS is different for 2011 models compared to my 2009 model, the TPMS warning comes on at a rather low tire pressure - several psi below normal "cold" tire pressures. It's not a reliable way to know if the tires have enough air. Instead, the stock TPMS system alerts you to dangerously low tire pressures.
mike c.

Thank you Mike.

The outsides of both of my front tires have worn the tread flat.
It appears that the recommended tire pressures for this car are WAY off.
My rear tires wore out in the center which is normally an indication of over inflation.
The front tires wore out on the outsides which is normally an indication of under inflation.
I guess the fronts should be overinflated by a few pounds and the rears underinflated by a few pounds compared to the recommended pressures?
Tom

 

[homeofstone]

"I guess the fronts should be overinflated by a few pounds and the rears underinflated by a few pounds compared to the recommended pressures?"

This is not necessary if the tires are rotated approximately every 5000 miles. I also switch mine from side to side since with many higher horse power cars the right side rear wears faster.
Of course you can't easily swap tires from side to side if you have directional tires.

 

[PMCErnie]

Don't be cheap. Buy 4 new tires and get a 4-wheel alignment. Then inflate and rotate regularly.

 

[carlosinseattle]

Shoulder wear is typically caused by underinflation. The center part of the tread flexes inwards and doesn't support as much of the vehicle weight as it ought to... the sides end up taking that load. Unless the TPMS is different for 2011 models compared to my 2009 model, the TPMS warning comes on at a rather low tire pressure - several psi below normal "cold" tire pressures. It's not a reliable way to know if the tires have enough air. Instead, the stock TPMS system alerts you to dangerously low tire pressures.

Toe issues lead to a "feathering" wear on the tire. Take your palm and run it around the tread both forwards and backwards... if the tread "grabs" more in one direction than the other, this is a type of feathering wear. The individual tread blocks end up with a saw tooth pattern if you look across the tread. Now move your hand across the tread from the inside of the tire to the outside - basically crossing the tread. If there is more grab/snag feeling in on direction than the other, the tread "bands" around the tire circumference are feathers. If you stand behind or in front of the tire and look at the top, you may see the saw tooth pattern running from the inside edge to the outside of the tire.

mike c.

What he said...And always get a second opinion with tires, suspension, and alignment issues

 

[snork]

Don't be cheap. Buy 4 new tires and get a 4-wheel alignment. Then inflate and rotate regularly.

This unfortunately On my previous tires, my front/insides wore out first. I had them rotated and aligned at a Mavis Tire around the corner from my office because of convenience of location. The rears rotated to the front still wore similarly Luckily it wasn't too bad after the alignment that I got full life out of the tires since I caught it soon enough.

When I replaced my tires, I brought it to my local garage (that I trust more than a chain store since it's a family owned business). Had them put on new tires and do ANOTHER alignment after only 15k miles from the one I just did. I've gone 20k on the new tires and they're all wearing evenly now.

 

[GK Daddio]

Where you get your alignment done makes all the difference in the world. Had my 2010 done at me local garage with a laser alignment machine and man was the car out of whack. The garage did a heck of job and the wear no my newer tires is even as one could ask for. They also said the specks that had for the car were way off from the actual settings completed.
Unfortunatley Hyundai has now eliminated the ability to rotate tires on the new Genesis by going with different tires sizes front and rear.

 

[homeofstone]

Where you get your alignment done makes all the difference in the world. Had my 2010 done at me local garage with a laser alignment machine and man was the car out of whack. The garage did a heck of job and the wear no my newer tires is even as one could ask for. They also said the specks that had for the car were way off from the actual settings completed.
Unfortunatley Hyundai has now eliminated the ability to rotate tires on the new Genesis by going with different tires sizes front and rear.

Rotate the rear tires side to side. That's what I do and I have a car with the staggered set up.

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[dareckibmw]

Unless those tires are directional

 

[GK Daddio]

Unless those tires are directional

Bingo! Though most won't be using directional tread tires on these cars as those tires tend to be less forgiving in ride quality. Swapping tires side to side really doesn't make that much difference and the benefits for going to the staggered setup really aren't enough to warrant it on a sport lux car. They don't need to be BMW.

 

[homeofstone]

Bingo! Though most won't be using directional tread tires on these cars as those tires tend to be less forgiving in ride quality. Swapping tires side to side really doesn't make that much difference and the benefits for going to the staggered setup really aren't enough to warrant it on a sport lux car. They don't need to be BMW.

On a car with high hp and torque swapping the rear tires on a staggered setup does help a lot with wearing both rear tires at the same rate then buying two tires. I have owned several cars with staggered tires and from my experience it helps a lot. I swapped mine about every 6000 miles.

 

[GK Daddio]

I've never had a staggered setup so that's good to know you can extend their life a bit