2012 spotted on the lots!

[DeeVa]

not to insult your intellignece but what did you expect him to say when you ask "is the ride improved on the new ones?" what choice does he have?

on another note, i just checked BOA site and they '12's listed but the '12 V8 is THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE than the '11's....wow

Not to insult your intelligence, but I am looking forward to reviews from owners of the 2012 Genesis for an accurate assessment. Not to single you out, but your voice seems to be the most shrill among those that own the 2011's and want to justify their purchases. I think the 2011 are fine cars (I may end up buying one if the price is cheap enough), but the fact remains that the ride has been the weak link in Genesis cars and the 2012 has targeted improvements in that area. I will be interested in reports from actual owners on whether they have been successful. Ditto for reports on the "unproven 8-speed transmission" (you do realize that ZF is phasing out their 6 speed transmission in favor of 8 and 9 speed transmissions?). The 2012 4.6 V8 (last of a dying breed it appears - no 2013 4.6) is $1500 more than the 2011. If the cost today from a dealer today is $3000 more, that isn't surprising given the 2011 has already suffered a year's depreciation.

 

[MHT]

Sorry, I don't the answer to that one. But I have recently purchased new Michelin tires for my Genesis and did some research on them. Most of the top Michelins use very sophisticated tread compounds (sometimes multiple componds in different places in the tread) to get a smooth and comfortable ride, while at the same time having excellent handling.

In general, even though almost all of the top-of-line Michelins are quiet and have a good smooth ride, the very smoothest ones are NOT the energy savers, since they are designed to have better rolling resistance and are a little stiffer. Probably the Michelin's with the best ride are the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (for Genesis 17" or 18" wheels with Y speed rating) and the Michelin Primacy MXV4 (for Genesis 17" wheels in V or H rating).


However, the most expensive Michelin Energy Saver tires probably do have a better ride than many non-energy saver type tires from brands other than Michelin.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=GTAS

I chose the Michelin Primacy MXV4 becasue I have 17" wheels and I came to the judgement (based on reviews, published research, etc) that they had a little softer ride than the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus.

If I had a 2012 Genesis, I might go for the Michelin Energy Savers, but I need a little help from my tires.

Just as I suspected Hyundai did put the Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235-50-18 97V on the 2012 Genesis with 18" wheels. I purchased this tire almost two months ago, two weeks after it was released in the size 235-50-18 97V. As this tire handles impact on rough roads much better than the OEM UHP Tires Hyundai must have figured that both the Genesis with 18" wheels and Equus with 19" wheels would ride better with out Ultra High Performance Tires. The fact that the Equus has an air suspension made no difference in Hyundai decision to not put an UHP tire on the Equus. Knowing what I know about Hyundai,s tire choice for the 2012 Genesis with 18" wheels it will be very interesting to see what changes were made to the suspension.

 

[Mark_888]

Just as I suspected Hyundai did put the Michelin Energy Saver A/S 235-50-18 97V on the 2012 Genesis with 18" wheels. I purchased this tire almost two months ago, two weeks after it was released in the size 235-50-18 97V. As this tire handles impact on rough roads much better than the OEM UHP Tires Hyundai must have figured that both the Genesis with 18" wheels and Equus with 19" wheels would ride better with out Ultra High Performance Tires. The fact that the Equus has an air suspension made no difference in Hyundai decision to not put an UHP tire on the Equus. Knowing what I know about Hyundai,s tire choice for the 2012 Genesis with 18" wheels it will be very interesting to see what changes were made to the suspension.

Hyundai was obviously interested in improving the Genesis ride for 2012, and the new tires do play a role in that, but probably not as important as the suspension changes. Regarding the Energy Saver tires, Hyundai has been keenly focused on the fuel economy of its product line (as have all other manufacturers as CAFE looms on the horizon), and the Energy Saver tires are a part of that effort. Fortunately, the high-end Michelin Energy Saver tires (with expensive rubber compounds) are very smooth riding, in addition to helping get very good MPG out of the car. The only downside is that Hyundai probably had to pay more for them than the Dunlops, but it was worth it.

 

[MHT]

Hyundai was obviously interested in improving the Genesis ride for 2012, and the new tires do play a role in that, but probably not as important as the suspension changes. Regarding the Energy Saver tires, Hyundai has been keenly focused on the fuel economy of its product line (as have all other manufacturers as CAFE looms on the horizon), and the Energy Saver tires are a part of that effort. Fortunately, the high-end Michelin Energy Saver tires (with expensive rubber compounds) are very smooth riding, in addition to helping get very good MPG out of the car. The only downside is that Hyundai probably had to pay more for them than the Dunlops, but it was worth it.

I can assure you that Hyundai will not have to pay one half as much for the Michelin tires as owners who were displeased with the OEM tires had to pay to replace them. My feelings about the 2012 suspension change is that it will not be as great as the changes that were made on the late 2009's and 2010 Genesis which will be a good thing for those who may want to change their suspension to the 2012 specs but in addition they may also want to consider changing their OEM tires. I am comfortable with the ride I get after changing to the Michelin Energy Saver A/S and do not think that I would change my suspension but will reserve that decision until I have test driven the 2012.

 

[tonygxp]

Not to insult your intelligence, but I am looking forward to reviews from owners of the 2012 Genesis for an accurate assessment. Not to single you out, but your voice seems to be the most shrill among those that own the 2011's and want to justify their purchases. I think the 2011 are fine cars (I may end up buying one if the price is cheap enough), but the fact remains that the ride has been the weak link in Genesis cars and the 2012 has targeted improvements in that area. I will be interested in reports from actual owners on whether they have been successful. Ditto for reports on the "unproven 8-speed transmission" (you do realize that ZF is phasing out their 6 speed transmission in favor of 8 and 9 speed transmissions?). The 2012 4.6 V8 (last of a dying breed it appears - no 2013 4.6) is $1500 more than the 2011. If the cost today from a dealer today is $3000 more, that isn't surprising given the 2011 has already suffered a year's depreciation.

not to begin an "internet" battle but let me point out a few things that were addressed in your last post, for clarification.

you make it sound as if i was questioning the 2012 suspension changes, i was not. just simply POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT A HYUNDAI CORPORATE REP IS GOING TO SAY NOTHING BUT RIDICULOUSLY BIASED things to anyone that presents him/her with a question that could impact a future sale. for any number of reasons, he/she has NOTHING to gain by remaining neutral or NOT telling you what you want to hear, only BAD things would come of him/her not blowing you away with

You= "GOOD" things to say. "i want to buy one but the suspension has me wondering"

them= "OH! no problem there we fixed EVERYTHING with these few enhancements blah blah blah"

THEM NOT SAYING= " some changes were made, but you should drive the vehicle to be sure YOU enjoy the ride and can be happy owning a Genesis, the ride isn't for everybody"

i don't have to justify my purchase, that in itself has been justified hundreds of times over by the joy the ownership of this vehicle brings to me and the other owners. we COULD wait for every new model year to come out but then NO ONE would own the car. if you're trying to keep up with the Jones' you will lose, because you will never be satisfied. Keep Procrastinating like some on here do. You will never buy one, just "talk" about it forever and ever and eventually wither away from this forum only to cling-on to the next "Genesis"type vehicle. i don't care, it's your perogative, it's just my $.02 but that's how i see it.

As for your ZF reference lol. i know all about the newer 8spd trans' but NONE of which were developed by Hyundai "in house". so when "WE" actual owners of the car reference the silky smooth operation of the ZF in the V8 cars and brag about how well it works, we are obviously skeptical about a new HYUNDAI built 8 speed.

they did great with the Tau V8, but remember only a year out they were changing the design of a number of things, with an engine it's easier to enhance things as you go. the TRANSMISSION is not. it either works or it's years before it is right. Just ask GM when their 6 speeds started coming out, or go back to the 3-4 speed switches of the mid 80's. i hope they nailed it, we'll see. i know the delay they have programmed into ALL of their trans' in house or ZF is detrimental to performance, i doubt the added ratios (which = more lag on upshifts) will equate to a big performance increase as referenced by the V8's gain of "1" mpg hwy. alos notice the COMBINED mpg is STILL 20mpg. same mpg, more gears, more shifting NON ZF = not for me.


last but not least. "2011 has already depreciated by a year"

if you say so. current model year vehicles depriciate AS SOON AS YOU DRIVE THEM OFF THE LOT. i guy drives a new '12 off the lot and trades it a moth later, what's worth more, that vehicle or a new leftover '11????? if we were in 2012 i could see your point, but to say '11 have depriciated is a moronic statment.

the difference between the '10 & '11 trade in value even right now is so minimal it's amazing.. look it up. so getting an '11 for $37k or $38k as opposed to a '12 for $42k or $43k doesn't reflect much other than you are paying top dollar for it because it just came out (and the 4.6 isn't even around yet, so in the end the big push for '12's to get out early was on par with all other years. the same as any other year as September was the traditional new model year debut from when i was a kid) when do they arrive? July? August?.

btw it's going to be more like $5-6k difference in real world money when the '12 4.6 debuts. for that much money you can keep the LCD screen update, LDWS, folding mirrors, rear heated seats, LED headlamps and 8 speed trans (wow? seems like you're actually PAYING for those upgrades now huh??) you get what you pay for holds true here. like saying the R-Spec is so much better than buyin the 4.6, your paying how many thousands more??

i like the way these '11's ride, if they improved the ride for '12 that's great, but i don't have nay issue with THIS one, maybe the earlier model years were an issue and left a STIGMA about these cars that is difficult to shake, mine (and the loaner i have along with the other three i've driven) rides awesome. they were all '11's

hope i cleared up whatever confusion i caused form my earlier posts. sorry for the long post, wanted to "get it right" this time lol

 

[DeeVa]

As for your ZF reference lol. i know all about the newer 8spd trans' but NONE of which were developed by Hyundai "in house". so when "WE" actual owners of the car reference the silky smooth operation of the ZF in the V8 cars and brag about how well it works, we are obviously skeptical about a new HYUNDAI built 8 speed.

they did great with the Tau V8, but remember only a year out they were changing the design of a number of things, with an engine it's easier to enhance things as you go. the TRANSMISSION is not. it either works or it's years before it is right. Just ask GM when their 6 speeds started coming out, or go back to the 3-4 speed switches of the mid 80's. i hope they nailed it, we'll see. i know the delay they have programmed into ALL of their trans' in house or ZF is detrimental to performance, i doubt the added ratios (which = more lag on upshifts) will equate to a big performance increase as referenced by the V8's gain of "1" mpg hwy.


last but not least. "2011 has already depreciated by a year"

if you say so. the difference between the '10 & '11 trade in value even right now is so minimal it's amazing.. look it up. so getting an '11 for $37k or $38k as opposed to a '12 for $42k or $43k doesn't reflect much other than you are paying top dollar for it because it just came out (and the 4.6 isn't even around yet, so in the end the big push for '12's to get out early was on par with all other years. the same as any other year as September was the traditional new model year debut from when i was a kid) when do they arrive? July? August?.

btw it's going to be more like $5-6k difference in real world money when the '12 4.6 debuts. for that much money you can keep the LCD screen update, LDWS, folding mirrors, rear heated seats, LED headlamps and 8 speed trans (wow? seems like you're actually PAYING for those upgrades now huh??) you get what you pay for holds true here. like saying the R-Spec is so much better than buyin the 4.6, your paying how many thousands more??

hope i cleared up whatever confusion i caused form my earlier posts. sorry for the long post, wanted to "get it right" this time lol

When the 2011's rolled out some were paying 41K or more for the 4.6. I can purchase the same car for less than 37K. I suspect that the 2012's will follow a similar pricing arc. When all is said and done, I don't think I'll be paying that much more for all of the extras you mention. If so, I'll likely end up buying a 2012. Hyundai is putting the 8-speed transmission in the Equus and Genesis. All of their competitors are doing the same. A 2011 with a 6-speed isn't an advantage, but it may be a compromise I am willing to make for the price.

 

[tonygxp]

When the 2011's rolled out some were paying 41K or more for the 4.6. I can purchase the same car for less than 37K. I suspect that the 2012's will follow a similar pricing arc. When all is said and done, I don't think I'll be paying that much more for all of the extras you mention. If so, I'll likely end up buying a 2012. Hyundai is putting the 8-speed transmission in the Equus and Genesis. All of their competitors are doing the same. A 2011 with a 6-speed isn't an advantage, but it may be a compromise I am willing to make for the price.

agreed on all you say, remember in the end even when the '12's are being moved for the '13's next august/september, they will still be priced above where '11's are no matter what and that's a year away.

the invoice is also up on the '12's which means less room for the dealer now between msrp & invoice price.

and even though "all competitors" are doing something doesn't make it right lol.. the ZF is the right trans, a ZF 8 speed would've been great but Hyundai is cutting some $$$$ out of the bottom line by doing it themselves. only time will tell.

if i were looking today as opposed to april when i purchased i would have likely waited and bought the '12 the improvements outweigh the negs (for me) but i can tell you for the first time in years i feel i did the "smart" thing and took a great deal on the '11 and pocketed the $5k difference by NOT buing the '12, plus i can feel as though i at least Don't have to wash and wax and be reminded of the stupid exhaust integration they did on the '12 or the deep side skirts.

for me the ideal Genesis has the new nose and rear bumper without the exhaust integration and same side skirts as the '09-'11. has a heated steering wheel, cooled passenger seat, heated and cooled cup holders, heads up display, deeper glove box and genesis wings standard on front rear and steering wheel.

 

[Mark_888]

I can assure you that Hyundai will not have to pay one half as much for the Michelin tires as owners who were displeased with the OEM tires had to pay to replace them. My feelings about the 2012 suspension change is that it will not be as great as the changes that were made on the late 2009's and 2010 Genesis which will be a good thing for those who may want to change their suspension to the 2012 specs but in addition they may also want to consider changing their OEM tires. I am comfortable with the ride I get after changing to the Michelin Energy Saver A/S and do not think that I would change my suspension but will reserve that decision until I have test driven the 2012.

It doesn't matter how much Hyundai pays for the Michelin's, my point is that they will pay more for them than the Dunlops. For automakers, every dollar spent on suppliers starts adding up quickly. But I agree that it was a wise decision on the part of Hyundai to spend the extra money for the Michelin's.

I think your "feelings" are wrong about the suspension, not that I think that the 2012 suspension changes are major, but the changes to the 2010 weren't exactly major either.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

I didnt think the US market offered the wood dash in the Genesis', but here is a 2012 V6 non tech.. I like the saddle interior..

http://www.hyundaiofkirkland.com/VehicleDetails/new-2012-Hyundai-Genesis-3.8-Kirkland-WA/1131954813

 

[Mark_888]

I didnt think the US market offered the wood dash in the Genesis', but here is a 2012 V6 non tech.. I like the saddle interior..

http://www.hyundaiofkirkland.com/VehicleDetails/new-2012-Hyundai-Genesis-3.8-Kirkland-WA/1131954813

The US market Geneis base trim has always had (since 2009) the imitation wood dash, instead of leather insert. Canadian market Genesis only had leather insert on 4.6 to best of my recollection.

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[jmatero]

A 2011 with a 6-speed isn't an advantage, but it may be a compromise I am willing to make for the price.

We don't know a THING about the 8-speed Hyundai-designed unit. There are definite negatives to having 8 forward gears with regard to the amount of shifting going on. As the MPG on the V8 hasn't changed, 8 gear for 2012 = 6th gear for 2011... meaning to get to cruising speed, you're shifting 8 times vs. 6. They didn't go with an 8-speed for any other reason than being competitive. The ZF 6-speed is considered bullet-proof.

 

[MHT]

It doesn't matter how much Hyundai pays for the Michelin's, my point is that they will pay more for them than the Dunlops. For automakers, every dollar spent on suppliers starts adding up quickly. But I agree that it was a wise decision on the part of Hyundai to spend the extra money for the Michelin's.

I think your "feelings" are wrong about the suspension, not that I think that the 2012 suspension changes are major, but the changes to the 2010 weren't exactly major either.

You really do not know that Hyundai is paying Michelin any more for their tires than they paid Dunlop. MY guess is Michelin made them a good deal equal to or better than Dunlop but I like you am not interested in the Michelin Hyundai deal I just think it was a good move to put not only a Michelin tire but a Passenger/Luxury Performance tire on the 18" wheels of the Genesis.
You may be right about the suspension but I can not wait for a test drive.

 

[Mark_888]

You really do not know that Hyundai is paying Michelin any more for their tires than they paid Dunlop. MY guess is Michelin made them a good deal equal to or better than Dunlop.

I wish we could have a friendly wager on that one, but not possible.

 

[Mark_888]

We don't know a THING about the 8-speed Hyundai-designed unit. There are definite negatives to having 8 forward gears with regard to the amount of shifting going on. As the MPG on the V8 hasn't changed, 8 gear for 2012 = 6th gear for 2011... meaning to get to cruising speed, you're shifting 8 times vs. 6. They didn't go with an 8-speed for any other reason than being competitive. The ZF 6-speed is considered bullet-proof.

This is interesting. I wonder if this is accurate:

The seat of the pants indicates it [2012 R-Spec] accelerates as advertised, and does so smoothly, with seamless upshifts and downshifts from the Hyundai-designed, ZF-built eight-speed.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1106_2012_hyundai_genesis_r_spec_drive/index.html

 

[tonygxp]

This is interesting. I wonder if this is accurate:

The seat of the pants indicates it [2012 R-Spec] accelerates as advertised, and does so smoothly, with seamless upshifts and downshifts from the Hyundai-designed, ZF-built eight-speed.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1106_2012_hyundai_genesis_r_spec_drive/index.html

i think they used some ZF patents but the trans itself is hyundai designed (if memory serves)

 

[Mark_888]

i think they used some ZF patents but the trans itself is hyundai designed (if memory serves)

The exact quote is Hyundai designed and ZF built. Don't know if that is accurate.

 

[tonygxp]

The exact quote is Hyundai designed and ZF built. Don't know if that is accurate.

no, it's not accurate. google the hyundai 8 speed and you will find plenty of info on the IN HOUSE built/designed 8 speed trans

 

[Mark_888]

no, it's not accurate. google the hyundai 8 speed and you will find plenty of info on the IN HOUSE built/designed 8 speed trans

That seems likely, but since both accounts are from the automotive press, not sure who to believe. Sometimes earlier accounts are wrong (but not saying that they are wrong this time).

 

[tonygxp]

That seems likely, but since both accounts are from the automotive press, not sure who to believe. Sometimes earlier accounts are wrong (but not saying that they are wrong this time).

i will research this and if i find anything from hyundai or someone "we" may believe i'll quote it on here. maybe someone can post about those "chats" they have with the HMC people, maybe it's been covered by them?

here's a couple

At the 2010 Beijing Auto Show today, Hyundai Motor Co. displayed its new 8-speed automatic transmission. The compact, innovative design features solenoid-activated valves for precise shifting and about 130 patented technologies which promise to improve the fuel economy of Hyundai's rear-wheel drive vehicles.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5698BmdIVCk"]YouTube - ‪Hyundai's New 8-Speed Automatic Transmission‬‏[/ame]

PLASTIC trans pan?? omg. now i'll have to check mine. plastic? how much lighter can the plastic be compared to aluminum? you can dent aluminum without it failing, good luck with plastic? especially in the snow belt.

 

[DeeVa]

i will research this and if i find anything from hyundai or someone "we" may believe i'll quote it on here. maybe someone can post about those "chats" they have with the HMC people, maybe it's been covered by them?

here's a couple



YouTube - ‪Hyundai's New 8-Speed Automatic Transmission‬‏

PLASTIC trans pan?? omg. now i'll have to check mine. plastic? how much lighter can the plastic be compared to aluminum? you can dent aluminum without it failing, good luck with plastic? especially in the snow belt.

If you actually listen to the clip, it says nothing about who BUILT the transmission. I am not vouching for the accuracy of the automotive mag reviews, but they say Hyundai DESIGNED and ZF BUILT. You clip says Hyundai DESIGNED.