2013 Genesis R-spec 5.0 1/4 mile times

[darthspader]

@ darthspader, that's awesome! With the 2011, you cannot fully disable. There are threads to that effect, which is why I asked.

As soon as there is any deviation from straight path, the ESC still kicks in on the 2011...even when off. You can light up one tire, right until the point when she kicks sideways. Lol

the first day i got my 2013 i turned off esc and it was raining. i did a 180 at an intersection. scared the shit out of me. lol

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Thank you Ram Air.

As has been posted on this forum numerous times before, the ECO mode on the Genney is just an indicator of how you are driving. It changes nothing. On other Hyundia's, it is an actual mode that does change timming and shift points, but not on the Genney.

As for the drive/sport mode, I have no scientific data to prove a difference but I have hit redline while in sport mode several times but never while in drive mode. Also, at least in my '12 R Spec, sport mode seems to shift at a higher RPM than drive mode in max acceleration.

As for ESC, I have done the one wheel wonder when it has been turned off. I have once, did a two wheel wonder with it turned off. I've feathered the throttle a bit while spinning, only to continue spinning and leaving about a 20 foot patch of rubber on the ground. I have never pulled the fuse up to this point.

But with ESC on, more than once I've done a face plant when accelerating. I've also done the throttle feathering on take off to try and get a better launch. I've also had it kick in too many times just as the rear is coming around in a corner and it's just starting to get fun. Damnn nannies.

 

[zielritter]

1#The Genesis is not a race car.It is not tuned to run with open exhaust therefore the lack of backpressure is the reason the car is falling on its face on top end and most likely losing HP/TQ

Sorry, pet peeve alert. What you have stated here is one of the most perpetuated myths in all of cardom. Lack of back-pressure will never, ever cause a loss of power. Back pressure is always bad. A poorly executed exhaust that is too large in diameter will cause a loss in power due to creating more not less back-pressure.

Think of your exhaust in pulses with a high-pressure head at the front and a lower pressure wake behind the tail. With a proper diameter exhaust these pulses more or less line up perfectly at low and high RPMs so that the low pressure wake of the previous pulse aids in pulling the next pulse through the exhaust (high-low pressure gradient).

In an exhaust with an incorrect diameter (usually anything greater than 2.25-2.5" on an NA engine), those pulses have too much room to bounce around at low RPMs and therefore this high-low pressure gradient scavenging affect doesn't work as well - thus causing back-pressure and a loss of low end power. Now, as the RPMs climb the pulses begin to fill out the volume of the exhaust somewhat reducing the affect of the large diameter pipe on power.

This is why people claim to lose low end power when adding an exhaust or headers. It has nothing to do with "a loss of back-pressure". An aftermarket exhaust company's goal is to minimize low-end loss (i.e. not go too big to disrupt exhaust scavenging) while allowing the car to breath in the high end.

Carry on.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

I have exhaust cutouts on my car and I noticed it's slightly slower at Low end

 

[zielritter]

I have exhaust cutouts on my car and I noticed it's slightly slower at Low end

I can tell you that it's not from a loss of back pressure.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

So then what is it from ?

 

[zielritter]

So then what is it from ?

Placebo? You can't feel an increase in power from just a cat-back so what would lead you to believe you could feel a theoretical loss in power from just a cut-out? A cut-out is surely a less significant modification than a cat back, right?

Where is the cut out located? If it's too close to the header then maybe you are losing the vacuum affect and low end torque. That's why an exhaust pipe is better than no exhaust pipe in terms of power.

I've read up a lot on this topic when I was designing a full exhaust on my Elantra and am pretty confident in the science. The back pressure theory tends to be coming from the crowd that lacks credible scientific explanation behind why back pressure is good. It's just perpetuated anecdotal evidence without any application of critical analysis.

Think about it - back pressure equals resistance. Why would resistance in a heat pump make it run more efficiently?

 

[TOMMYJR9]

Cutouts are placed just after the primary cats the secondary cats are located approximately underneath the driver and passenger seat I removed the secondary cats put in a test pipe and then mounted the cutouts to the test pipes so replacing is easy just remove reinstall the secondary cats and I'm back to factory settings no additional cutting or modifications were required

 

[zielritter]

Cutouts are placed just after the primary cats the secondary cats are located approximately underneath the driver and passenger seat I removed the secondary cats put in a test pipe and then mounted the cutouts to the test pipes so replacing is easy just remove reinstall the secondary cats and I'm back to factory settings no additional cutting or modifications were required

Maybe that's too close the actual exhaust port. I'm not a physicist by any means. I just like to memorize a bunch of crap smart people figure out .

But, if I had an opinion as to why you're experiencing a measurable loss of power it would be that your cut outs are so close to the engine's exhaust port that you're losing some of the scavenging affect you would otherwise have had the pulse been able to traverse a longer exhaust pipe.

Similar results are reported by people who completely remove their exhaust or even intake for that matter. This tends to yield lower dyno figures. It's about velocity just a much as it is about maximum flow capacity.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

K

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[Unevakno]

Re:"4# Leave the car in drive and remember to turn the ECO mode off!"
Experiment #1
My apologies, in advance for making some of you relive the trauma of a high school level science experiment. This experiment is not absolutely scientifically proven but without data logging equipment it is the best that I could do.
Purpose #1: To determine if the "ECO" mode in a 2012 R-Spec has any appreciable effect on performance.
#2: To determine if leaving the transmission selector in DRIVE or Sport makes any difference in acceleration.
Materials: clipboard, pen, handheld stopwatch, "TUCK" tape, chunk of 2*4
Method: Make several runs from 60 kph (37 mph for those of you that have not been converted ) observing rpm shift points using ECO mode/without ECO, DRIVE/SPORT
Observation #1: With ECO on car shifted twice at approx 6350 rpm-6400 rpm
Observation #2: With ECO off car shifted twice at approx. 6350-6400 rpm.
Please note the rpm scale is in 250rev increments and the needle is moving fast.
Observation #3: With block under accelerator pedal and ECO on car shifted (in drive) each time at 1800 rpm
Observation #4: With ECO off shifting occurred at 1800 rpm
Observation#5 With transmission in DRIVE car shifted at approx 6300-6400 rpm.
Observation #6 With transmission in SPORT car shifted at the same rpm.

Conclusion #1: "ECO" on or off means diddly-squat to the computer. It does not optimize anything . Maybe in an Elantra, but not in an R-Spec ( Note:diddly-squat is not a scientific definable term. Yes, I know I will lose marks for this.)
Conclusion #2 "Sport" or "Drive" has no effect on shift points when full throttle is used. *Remember, I let the tranny do the shifting in sport. I did not manually shift it.
Page 4-60 of the manual states," The ECO indicator light helps that you to drive economically." This is exactly how it is written. Somehow it didn't come out in translation. It further states, "It is displayed if you drive fuel efficiency." I swear, I am not making this stuff up.
Members: I stand by my previous post. Let the flaming arrows fly!
P.S. I could not time, observe and drive at the same time (I am a man, as my wife frequently points out). Therefore, no times were submitted.

Thank you and I appreciate the extensive testing/research but I find it hard to believe that Hyundai would make the ECO mode in one of the most expensive car they sell basically useless. But each day is a learning process and I will take it as new information until I can confirm it with the manufacturer.

 

[Unevakno]

Sorry, pet peeve alert. What you have stated here is one of the most perpetuated myths in all of cardom. Lack of back-pressure will never, ever cause a loss of power. Back pressure is always bad. A poorly executed exhaust that is too large in diameter will cause a loss in power due to creating more not less back-pressure.

Think of your exhaust in pulses with a high-pressure head at the front and a lower pressure wake behind the tail. With a proper diameter exhaust these pulses more or less line up perfectly at low and high RPMs so that the low pressure wake of the previous pulse aids in pulling the next pulse through the exhaust (high-low pressure gradient).

In an exhaust with an incorrect diameter (usually anything greater than 2.25-2.5" on an NA engine), those pulses have too much room to bounce around at low RPMs and therefore this high-low pressure gradient scavenging affect doesn't work as well - thus causing back-pressure and a loss of low end power. Now, as the RPMs climb the pulses begin to fill out the volume of the exhaust somewhat reducing the affect of the large diameter pipe on power.

This is why people claim to lose low end power when adding an exhaust or headers. It has nothing to do with "a loss of back-pressure". An aftermarket exhaust company's goal is to minimize low-end loss (i.e. not go too big to disrupt exhaust scavenging) while allowing the car to breath in the high end.

Carry on.

So if you want to get technical I will use terms like scavenging and gas velocity. That's is what it is all about. Open large exhaust can effect cylinder fill and evacuation. It can get pretty scientific. Back pressure is not necessarily the goal or the correct terminology but it is continually used.

Back pressure is the pressure that is in the exhaust before it leaves the exhaust system . It is determined by the setup of engine components you have. It helps to control the air/fuel mixture in the engine... because there is some level of pressure in the pipe, it needs pressure to run right. If you unbolted the header off of your car, it would barely run. This is because you have significantly changed the amount of backpressure that is in the system.

It improves cylinder filling of the air/fuel mixture...if you lower back pressure the air/fuel charge does not fill the combustion chamber as well, but simply flows through, resulting in less power. It's like filling a bucket with water....if the bucket has a huge hole in it, it takes longer to fill it. Back pressure is like a wall in the exhaust port that the air/fuel mixture hits when entering the combustion chamber so it fills up more....resulting in more complete filling and more power on detonation. There are other important considerations regarding back pressure, especially for racing engines. So in short like I said before depending on the size, type and tune of a engine you do need backpressure to run correctly.

 

[Unevakno]

As for ESC, I have done the one wheel wonder when it has been turned off. I have once, did a two wheel wonder with it turned off. I've feathered the throttle a bit while spinning, only to continue spinning and leaving about a 20 foot patch of rubber on the ground. I have never pulled the fuse up to this point.

Keep trying I guess each scenario changes the dynamics. I left my ESC on feathered the pedal off the line and got a perfect launch. I was slightly chirping the tires pulling hard until I was able to give it full throttle with no bogging.

 

[zielritter]

Back pressure is the pressure that is in the exhaust before it leaves the exhaust system . It is determined by the setup of engine components you have. It helps to control the air/fuel mixture in the engine... because there is some level of pressure in the pipe, it needs pressure to run right. If you unbolted the header off of your car, it would barely run. This is because you have significantly changed the amount of backpressure that is in the system.

It improves cylinder filling of the air/fuel mixture...if you lower back pressure the air/fuel charge does not fill the combustion chamber as well, but simply flows through, resulting in less power. It's like filling a bucket with water....if the bucket has a huge hole in it, it takes longer to fill it. Back pressure is like a wall in the exhaust port that the air/fuel mixture hits when entering the combustion chamber so it fills up more....resulting in more complete filling and more power on detonation. There are other important considerations regarding back pressure, especially for racing engines. So in short like I said before depending on the size, type and tune of a engine you do need backpressure to run correctly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "the wall" that allows the combustion chamber to fill if the valve - being closed. The vacuum created by the intake stroke of the piston and the intake valve being open is what draws in the fuel/air combination. I truly don't understand your bucket theory at all. A better, but still not perfect, analogy would be filling a syringe with a hole in it versus a proper seal. Any time the exhaust valve is open during the intake stroke, you're drawing in exhaust gasses, which decreases power. The fact that there's back-pressure during the intake stroke and the exhaust valve is open would mean the vacuum is mixing non-volatile exhaust gas with the intake charge - bad.

That said, there is minimal overlap of the cam exhaust/intake profiles for emissions reasons (i.e. modern cars burn a bit of exhaust gas with the fuel/air mixture), but the exhaust valve being closed is what prevents intake gasses from leaving the combustion chamber. Scavenging and back-pressure are not interchangeable terms. One works to defeat the other.

Unbolting the header would cause issues because exhaust gasses would be more difficult to expel (no pressure gradient). I've yet to find a credible explanation providing evidence that back-pressure is good, yet there are hundreds of very detailed explanations as to why the back-pressure "myth" is wrong and any car wanting to improve horsepower through exhaust must work to intelligently reduce this variable.

If you've got one that is quantitative rather than anecdotal, please point me that way.

 

[Unevakno]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but "the wall" that allows the combustion chamber to fill if the valve - being closed. The vacuum created by the intake stroke of the piston and the intake valve being open is what draws in the fuel/air combination. I truly don't understand your bucket theory at all. A better, but still not perfect, analogy would be filling a syringe with a hole in it versus a proper seal. Any time the exhaust valve is open during the intake stroke, you're drawing in exhaust gasses, which decreases power. The fact that there's back-pressure during the intake stroke and the exhaust valve is open would mean the vacuum is mixing non-volatile exhaust gas with the intake charge - bad.

That said, there is minimal overlap of the cam exhaust/intake profiles for emissions reasons (i.e. modern cars burn a bit of exhaust gas with the fuel/air mixture), but the exhaust valve being closed is what prevents intake gasses from leaving the combustion chamber. Scavenging and back-pressure are not interchangeable terms. One works to defeat the other.

Unbolting the header would cause issues because exhaust gasses would be more difficult to expel (no pressure gradient). I've yet to find a credible explanation providing evidence that back-pressure is good, yet there are hundreds of very detailed explanations as to why the back-pressure "myth" is wrong and any car wanting to improve horsepower through exhaust must work to intelligently reduce this variable.

If you've got one that is quantitative rather than anecdotal, please point me that way.

Thank you for your insight it is really appreciated and it is useable knowledge. I don't want to turn this into a war because I know how to make cars fast and have a track record to prove it. You could be right I'm not always correct but I'm sure that without a tune or other mods to the engine open exhaust will not benefit a stock R spec unless you want to win a decibel contest.

 

[zielritter]

Thank you for your insight it is really appreciated and it is useable knowledge. I don't want to turn this into a war because I know how to make cars fast and have a track record to prove it. You could be right I'm not always correct but I'm sure that without a tune or other mods to the engine open exhaust will not benefit a stock R spec unless you want to win a decibel contest.

That's one thing we can agree on. Without a good solution to allow us to adjust AFR and spark timing we'll never truly unlock power. Of course, when you run leaner, you run hotter and longevity suffers.

 

[Big_tugg]

it all starts with the tune...no tune well... we will sit here.

IMO a tune and DR's will put the car in the 12's all day long

 

[shagnat]

Lowering your tire pressure by 10# isn't going to help. Will probably hurt if anything. I "may" drop to 30# but that's just me.

 

[Hawkchief]

I ran my bone stock 2014 5.0 R Spec on premium gas, no changes to tire pressure. Found best results were to turn the ESC off for a short burn out then turn it back on. Slight throttle (1200-1500 rpm) build at the line. Off the break and floor it. Chirped in 1,2 and 3. 13.29 @106.6. If I better with my reaction time, I should break into the 12s.

2014 gray 5.0 rspec
5% tint in back, 35% front. Electric exhaust cutouts ordered (to be mounted just ahead of the mufflers to avoid any cat issues).

 

[Hawkchief]

Must be the year. My 2014 5.0 rspec does both tires everytime.