2015 3.8 vs 5.0??

[greekgeek]

Back when the 2015's first came out, the vast majority of the automotive press preferred the V6 suspension over the V8 adjustable suspension. I think that if it has been discontinued on the V8, that is the reason why (and since it does cost more to provide it). Also, they need to have some features on the Equus (G90) that are not on the Genesis.

My impression reading the press was the same although in each case the V6 was preferred for being sportier, which the weight difference and electronic steering settings also contributes greatly. CDC tunes in stiffness in sport mode but more importantly, in every mode it continuously adapts to the road surface conditions, body roll etc to stabilize the ride experience: great for luxury cruising. IIRC, the Equus (non air) suspension was CDC.

edit: the 2015 has both air suspension and CDC shocks.

 

[jimb100]

My impression reading the press was the same although in each case the V6 was preferred for being sportier, which the weight difference and electronic steering settings also contributes greatly. CDC tunes in stiffness in sport mode but more importantly, in every mode it continuously adapts to the road surface conditions, body roll etc to stabilize the ride experience: great for luxury cruising. IIRC, the Equus (non air) suspension was CDC.

edit: the 2015 has both air suspension and CDC shocks.

I suspect that the vast majority of people going to look at the Genesis care very little about "sport" driving. Rather, they are bargain hunters looking for the features you find in a Benz, Audi or BMW but not necessarily the driving experience.

Years ago Lexus targeted Cadillac and Lincoln while Infiniti targeted Mercedes and BMW. Lexus was wildly successful while Infiniti flopped. The Infiniti Q45 was a great car with sport suspension and "blueprinted" 8 cyl engine while the Lexus Ls400 was a luxo barge like a Caddy but with much better materials and QC.

The 3.8 Genesis is the choice of those early Lexus adopters and they are certainly in the vast majority. And while many of the reviewers did prefer the suspension on the 3.8, I believe it was because they measured it by how it compared to a Lexus LS460 ride not a 5 series BMW.

 

[Mark_888]

The 3.8 Genesis is the choice of those early Lexus adopters and they are certainly in the vast majority. And while many of the reviewers did prefer the suspension on the 3.8, I believe it was because they measured it by how it compared to a Lexus LS460 ride not a 5 series BMW.

I don't believe that is what automotive press meant.

First, the 3.8 is noticeably lighter and handles more nimbly than the V8. So in that sense the V6 handling is more European than the V8. The V8 appeals more to straight ahead USA muscle car owners (the adjustable suspension not-withstanding).

When the automotive press reviewed the 2015, they preferred the V6 suspension to the variable V8 Ultimate suspension. They said the "normal" suspension on the V8 Ultimate was a little too soft, and the "sport" mode was too stiff for normal driving. They liked the fixed V6 suspension better because it was a better compromise between the two.

The above relates to the 2015 second generation. On the first generation Genesis, the 2009-2011 V6 was every bit as stiff as the V8. Starting in the 2012, they made the suspensions equally softer on both V6 and V8 models, except for the R-Spec, which retained the 2009-2011 stiffness.

Not that it matters, but the suspension on the newer Lexus LS460 has changed, and is much stiffer than before, and the LS460 is also available in a F-Sport model that can be set quite stiff.

 

[Nikgen]

I suspect that the vast majority of people going to look at the Genesis care very little about "sport" driving. Rather, they are bargain hunters looking for the features you find in a Benz, Audi or BMW but not necessarily the driving experience.

Years ago Lexus targeted Cadillac and Lincoln while Infiniti targeted Mercedes and BMW. Lexus was wildly successful while Infiniti flopped. The Infiniti Q45 was a great car with sport suspension and "blueprinted" 8 cyl engine while the Lexus Ls400 was a luxo barge like a Caddy but with much better materials and QC.

The 3.8 Genesis is the choice of those early Lexus adopters and they are certainly in the vast majority. And while many of the reviewers did prefer the suspension on the 3.8, I believe it was because they measured it by how it compared to a Lexus LS460 ride not a 5 series BMW.

So the driving experience is only about power and not the ride/handling (which many feel is better/more lively in the V6)? And AWD doesn't add to the driving experience either? OK....

 

[Huddleston]

This is all fine and good but I chose the 5.0 this time because on my 2013 I went with the 3.8 and regretted it. As for the handling mine isn't stock so I guess the comparisons don't hold up. Bottom line is that both are solid engines and give two different buyers what they are looking for. Obviously each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I'm just happy the g2 is such a well built car inside and out.

 

[Nikgen]

This is all fine and good but I chose the 5.0 this time because on my 2013 I went with the 3.8 and regretted it. As for the handling mine isn't stock so I guess the comparisons don't hold up. Bottom line is that both are solid engines and give two different buyers what they are looking for. Obviously each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I'm just happy the g2 is such a well built car inside and out.

Agreed, and you are always balanced on your views! The G2 in any trim is a really good car (still has room for improvement, though) and a great value. The move to consolidate models under Genesis Motors will mean further inprovements and refinements but, in the meantime, we can enjoy our current rides.

 

[Huddleston]

Exactly, I'm excited to see the new models being developed.

 

[jimb100]

So the driving experience is only about power and not the ride/handling (which many feel is better/more lively in the V6)? And AWD doesn't add to the driving experience either? OK....

Reading comprehension issues or just trying to set up a straw man?

 

[Mark_888]

Reading comprehension issues or just trying to set up a straw man?

He understands what you said, but probably (like me) doesn't believe that a car that is noticeably heavier is going to handle better than a lighter more nimble car, just because the heavier car has a bigger engine that goes faster in a straight line (although not necessarily faster on a slalom or not necessarily faster 0-30 MPH).

 

[Midnightsun]

He understands what you said, but probably (like me) doesn't believe that a car that is noticeably heavier is going to handle better than a lighter more nimble car, just because the heavier car has a bigger engine that goes faster in a straight line (although not necessarily faster on a slalom or not necessarily faster 0-30 MPH).

I think what some of you are missing is they say it "feels" more nimble and not it "is" more nimble. If you want nimble, put the V8 in sport mode so the EDC suspension sets the car up for nimble and now we can talk. Believe me, the EDC is very noticeable and one of the several reasons I went with the V8.

As for the weights. It is interesting to note that an AWD V6 is only 85lbs lighter than the RWD V8 when Car & Driver put them on their scales. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-v-6-awd-test-review

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[Mark_888]

I think what some of you are missing is they say it "feels" more nimble and not it "is" more nimble. If you want nimble, put the V8 in sport mode so the EDC suspension sets the car up for nimble and now we can talk. Believe me, the EDC is very noticeable and one of the several reasons I went with the V8.

As for the weights. It is interesting to note that an AWD V6 is only 85lbs lighter than the RWD V8 when Car & Driver put them on their scales. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-v-6-awd-test-review

Most professional reviewers of the 2015 admitted that the EDC suspension was noticeable as adjustments to the settings were made (normal, sport, etc). They just said that they preferred the non-EDC normal-only setting to the EDC normal, and that the EDC sport was a little too stiff for most folks in sport mode (and shifts too quickly in sport mode). I think that is why Hyundai dropped the EDC for 2016 (and also so the Equus will have something that the Genesis does not have).

Here is the actual verbage from Car and Driver:

The top-trim V-8 Ultimate model comes with electronic dampers, but we prefer the conventional shocks on the V-6 car. In their standard setting, the adjustable dampers [on the V8 Ultimate] are tuned to be softer than the fixed-rate units and some side-to-side wobble is felt when the road dips and pitches. Sport mode firms them up for body control on par with that of the six-cylinder car, but also forces the transmission to shift earlier and hold lower gears.​

200 extra pounds on the front end of the V8 creates a F/R weight imbalance of about 2% more on the front (the ideal is 50-50). The 200 extra pounds also makes the car less nimble (not just feels less nimble). Obviously, many don't care about that, and want the additional straight ahead HP increase. Each person can decide for themselves.

 

[greekgeek]

@jimb100

No idea if the LS400 was going for US or German dynamics although I recall the LS400 being an S class derivative design. In the 90's I was rolling in an '88 Acura Legend! C&D seemed to think the v8 G2 was very euro and also like LS launch, fwiw.

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-50-test-review

 

[greekgeek]

Perhaps an outlier, a reviewer who appreciates the CDC suspension.
http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-50-real-world-review-225871

Snip...

I purposely rolled over as many potholes and rough patches as I could, and the Genesis just shrugged them off, recalling once again its illustrious Lexus counterpart. Granted, my test car had the optional continuous damping control suspension, which provides adaptive dampers that don't come with the base setup. Based on my experience, this is a no-brainer upgrade as part of the value-packed Ultimate package ($3,250).

 

[Nikgen]

Perhaps an outlier, a reviewer who appreciates the CDC suspension.
http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-50-real-world-review-225871

Snip...

I purposely rolled over as many potholes and rough patches as I could, and the Genesis just shrugged them off, recalling once again its illustrious Lexus counterpart. Granted, my test car had the optional continuous damping control suspension, which provides adaptive dampers that don't come with the base setup. Based on my experience, this is a no-brainer upgrade as part of the value-packed Ultimate package ($3,250).

Doesn't actually say he ever drove the base model without the electronic dampers over the same setup for comparison - so hard to take anything meaningful from his comments other than the G2 Genesis soaks up the bumps well?

 

[Nikgen]

I think what some of you are missing is they say it "feels" more nimble and not it "is" more nimble. If you want nimble, put the V8 in sport mode so the EDC suspension sets the car up for nimble and now we can talk. Believe me, the EDC is very noticeable and one of the several reasons I went with the V8.

As for the weights. It is interesting to note that an AWD V6 is only 85lbs lighter than the RWD V8 when Car & Driver put them on their scales. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-v-6-awd-test-review

Just like you are saying you "feel" the EDC makes a difference - it's still a subjective observation and no one has ever provided data to support the tangible benefits of the system in the 2015 Genesis - including Hyundai themselves.

I'm not saying there isn't any benefit as I never spent any extended time with a 5.0. However, my guess is that it is not all that big of a difference if they eliminated it from what some are calling the performance version of the Genesis (clearly is for straight line power).

BTW - C&D also said this in that test:

"Even with the added all-wheel-drive hardware, the HTRAC Genesis V-6 managed to feel sprightlier than the Genesis V-8. (On our scales, the HTRAC Genesis V-6 weighed 85 fewer pounds than the rear-drive Genesis V-8—with most of that coming off the front axle.)"

 

[lobsenza]

The weight differences are somewhat deceiving. The weight of the 3.8 is the base model trim. The 5.0 weight includes items from the signature and tech packages. The weight difference isn't all engine.

I think both engines are good choices. The acceleration of the 3.8 is very good and will be fine for many drivers. There is not a right or wrong answer here. It is a matter of preference. The acceleration of the 3.8 in the 6.2 second range is better than my other vehicles. Is the 5.0 noticeably faster? Yes, in a side by side comparison. But, if that isn't your priority, the 3.8 is the right answer for you.

I feel much stronger about the selection of the tech package than I do about the engine. The tech package is required for the IIHS top safety pick plus rating.

 

[greekgeek]

Doesn't actually say he ever drove the base model without the electronic dampers over the same setup for comparison - so hard to take anything meaningful from his comments other than the G2 Genesis soaks up the bumps well?

Well by that kind of logic he could have also driven a v6 and not stated it explicitly. Either way the point is moot, I was posting it as an example of someone who seems to understand the benefits of a CDC.

Do you simply not not accept CDC as a useful technology? It's a proven system that's been around for a long time and lots of info is out on the web from Tier 1 suppliers such as ZF (now TRW).

It's all personal preference, well at least until the 2016 came out.

 

[jimb100]

Well by that kind of logic he could have also driven a v6 and not stated it explicitly. Either way the point is moot, I was posting it as an example of someone who seems to understand the benefits of a CDC.

Do you simply not not accept CDC as a useful technology? It's a proven system that's been around for a long time and lots of info is out on the web from Tier 1 suppliers such as ZF (now TRW).

It's all personal preference, well at least until the 2016 came out.

I'm sure many drivers don't see the benefits of the CDC suspension due to the way they drive. But here's where I see the CDC show its value.

Turning on an on ramp and accelerating to merging speed you hit a pothole. Without CDC the car has a tendency to jump in response to the wheel hitting the hole. The CDC soak up that bump and minimizes the suspension and steering response.

In increasing radius turns the CDC suspension compensates for the added pressure on the front inside wheel by firming the suspension to maintain flat cornering and decreasing the amount the tire rolls over.

On banked expressway turns the CDC handles bumps that would normally unload the suspension and cause sideways slip.

There are lots of other examples but if you are the type of driver who stops at the top of an entrance ramp to wait there are no oncoming cars you'll likely never notice any of these events and never feel the benefit of CDC.

Again, I'm not saying the way you drive is "wrong" just that CDC provides little benefit to this type of driver.

Also, writers for magazines typically talk to the mfg. rep before, during and after the test drive and will emphasize or minimize what the rep wants. These tests are good for sizing up the specs but the verbiage is always subject to interpretation and frequently is nothing more than one man's (woman's) opinion to be taken lightly or seriously, according to your own bias.

Much like movie reviews, if you find a reviewer who likes what you like, they are always spot on and one that doesn't like your favorites doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[Nikgen]

Well by that kind of logic he could have also driven a v6 and not stated it explicitly. Either way the point is moot, I was posting it as an example of someone who seems to understand the benefits of a CDC.

Do you simply not not accept CDC as a useful technology? It's a proven system that's been around for a long time and lots of info is out on the web from Tier 1 suppliers such as ZF (now TRW).

It's all personal preference, well at least until the 2016 came out.

I get the purpose of CDC. There is nothing in that "review" that suggests the author understands the benefits of CDC. He just talks about it soaking up the bumps - the V6 sucks up the bumps well too. The CDC is supposed to improve dynamic handing by constantly adjusting damping at each wheel; theoretically keeping the car more balanced. In sport mode it would likely provide a somewhat harsher ride. He says nothing about that so I can't take his comments as providing any support for benefits of CDC.

 

[Mark_888]

Perhaps an outlier, a reviewer who appreciates the CDC suspension.
http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2015-hyundai-genesis-50-real-world-review-225871

Snip...

I purposely rolled over as many potholes and rough patches as I could, and the Genesis just shrugged them off, recalling once again its illustrious Lexus counterpart. Granted, my test car had the optional continuous damping control suspension, which provides adaptive dampers that don't come with the base setup. Based on my experience, this is a no-brainer upgrade as part of the value-packed Ultimate package ($3,250).

I am quite sure that some do prefer the optional continuous damping control suspension because it is so forgiving. But the point is that in normal mode, it is soft and cushy, and not German-like (more like a Caddy). In sport mode, it shifted too slow as the shift mode and suspension stiffness are linked and cannot be separated.

That may be the reason they dropped it for 2016.