2016 Audi A8 L - The bar is still pretty high

[Jaeger]

Did you reply to the wrong post? All I was pointing out is that the 4.0 Turbo Audi is much quicker than the 5.0 G2 and that it has nothing to do with AWD.

Yes, and by his own logic, his 5.0 G2 is pathetically "sluggish" in comparison.

 

[XPO439]

Yes, and by his own logic, his 5.0 G2 is pathetically "sluggish" in comparison.

Pathetically sluggish?

I'll have you know, I beat a full bolt on Toyota Prius the other day while grabbing some milk and cookies for my inebriated friend passed out on my couch for a few days. I had to put the car in "Sport light-speed mode" because the Prius was catching up...he almost had me!

So by that logic, I think the A8 would be an easy kill for our Genesis, granted you activate "sport light-speed mode" first. If you don't have that mode, you will lose

 

[Jaeger]

Pathetically sluggish?

I'll have you know, I beat a full bolt on Toyota Prius the other day while grabbing some milk and cookies for my inebriated friend passed out on my couch for a few days. I had to put the car in "Sport light-speed mode" because the Prius was catching up...he almost had me!

So by that logic, I think the A8 would be an easy kill for our Genesis, granted you activate "sport light-speed mode" first. If you don't have that mode, you will lose

Lol!

 

[turnne]

It was a reading comprehension test. Appears most failed.

and as I said before
If you were really comparing the cars there is at least a few pages of differences that you would needed to document

I used to think that most people, in these automotive internet forums, knew what the differences were and/or available options on most any of the high end cars

But...I have changed my mind
I see far too many instances where someone cites a feature on their car as "Gee-whiz" and new...when in fact it has been around more than a decade on most anything that was $80K and up

soft close doors/trunk , heads up displays and camera functionality are some features that come to mind

Warren

 

[srobak]

I said I wasn't going to get back into this - but when people are posting just outright falsehoods - I am compelled to set the record straight.

You do make me laugh! One minute drag racing is childish and shouldn't be considered, the next post its all you want to talk about.

He talked about it because you brought it up in the first place with your claim on speed, Nikgen poked more holes than swiss cheese with cited facts from multiple sources about that while both KP and I cried foul on your AWD claims - which Nikgen's cited post also supported. You don't get to waffle on it now (for the 2nd time) just because your claims were proven false by 2 different trade rags and it was put on display for you to read.

You just don't know that much about cars.

Note this for later in my reply.

I haven't the time or the masochistic tendencies to go through this post in enough detail respond point by point.

Yeah - why be bothered by pesky little things like details, despite that being what the entire thread is in fact about? Not sorry that my and other's cited information doesn't jive with your beliefs - but that's an issue for you to work out amongst yourself vs. your "aw hogwash" dismissiveness of the reality of things.

I've never heard anyone claim "transfer case" revolutions equalize the benefit AWD cars have getting off the line. Having had many Corvettes, a Chevelle SS 396, an XKE, a 911, two Supra Turbos and lots of Nissan Z cars, Triumphs, MGs, etc. No magazine reviewer, drag racer or anyone else for that matter agrees with you.

You are not making any sense... and you appear to be waffling again. It was in fact you yourself that said:

"Originally Posted by jimb100
Clueless, as usual. Any car with AWD and similar HP and Torque will beat a rear wheel drive in a drag race. I guess I shouldn't be surprised you don't know this"

Which is just flat wrong. As I stated before - the exact opposite is true - and for the numerous points I stated. Power loss due to turns in drivetrain has been known about since the very first cog & shaft machines from hundreds of years ago. There have been numerous attempts in every industry to try to minimize the amount of loss through things like worms, bevels, spirals, helicals, miters and other types of gearing - but the loss IS a reality and it is absolutely present in an AWD vehicle moreso than a RWD or FWD. For the number of cars you claim to have owned and raced you of all people should absolutely know better than that.

If you don't want to believe me - you can take a lesson from these guys - who know a hell of a lot about dragging, gearing, power generation, power delivery and power loss: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/

Past that - you need to take your issue up with The Laws Of Physics. Not me - or anyone else on this forum.

Clearly you don't know that much about cars

This rhetoric from you is already old and tired - even though you have only said it a few times in order to be dismissive of others who are pointing out cited facts to you. The reality of the situation is that it appears that you are the one who doesn't seem to know a whole lot about cars, powertrains, drag racing, depreciation, the new & used car market, industry classifications or pretty much anything else about cars. But any time you want to compare stacks of ASE and factory certifications - you just let me know.

most people on a Genesis forum aren't going to be extreme car buffs and will bring [...] a lot of preconceived notions, urban myths and internet nonsense to the forum. That's understandable.

You are free to speak for yourself however you see fit... but you do not get to speak for the rest of us. For the most part - people who are not car buffs do not tend to register and become active participants on a *drumroll* car forum in the first place... even if for their own brand of car. I have to say that in your comment above you are actually referencing yourself as more than a few of us have provided multiple cited facts from reputable sources in direct contrast to the majority of your claims. Lisa Vito you are not.

I can be move objective about things than you because I have more experience.

Your track record so far in this thread strongly indicates to the contrary.

You seem to think of the A8 as some Olympian car designed by the gods. It's not.

I think I might have figured out what is happening with you here....
a> You like to skim posts
b> You appear to have a comprehension problem with what little of the material you actually do decide to read
c> You like to waffle on the points you bring to bear as a result of A & B which are then proven to be false.

Because - had you bothered to read even a portion of my post which you unnecessarily quoted at full length without bothering to trim or to actually address anything within it - you would know that anything but your (yet another) false statement is anything but the truth. And that you would have also seen not only hasn't the 8 ever been on my short list... but would never even be a consideration on the long list at any point in the future. That and especially as I am choosing a G90 for my next ride - the A8 is beaten by it in the bang-for-buck, longevity, resale & value departments.

Now - if you want to even feign an attempt at saving some face and attaining a smidge of credibility in these types of discussions going forward - you will seize the opportunity to go back, re-read everyone's posts in their entirety and try appropriately reformulating your responses. Otherwise - I think we are all pretty tired of your general dismissiveness, circular logic, misrepresentation of facts, waffling & doubletalk, ignorance & contrast of physics and performance falsehoods - and that any further posts you have on the topic can just be dismissed as the nonsense the rest have been.

 

[jsmit86]

....Otherwise - I think we are all pretty tired of your general dismissiveness, circular logic, misrepresentation of facts, waffling & doubletalk, ignorance & contrast of physics and performance falsehoods - and that any further posts you have on the topic can just be dismissed as the nonsense the rest have been.

Yes but aside from those few shortcomings Mrs. Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?

 

[kn5owa]

And that you would have also seen not only hasn't the 8 ever been on my short list... but would never even be a consideration on the long list at any point in the future. That and especially as I am choosing a G90 for my next ride - the A8 is beaten by it in the bang-for-buck, longevity, resale & value departments.

Apparently - you're choosing the G90 as "your next ride" sight unseen since it's not out yet. I am curious as to why? I am considering the G80 but certainly not sight unseen (or undriven).

Maybe, I'd switch to the G90 if it's so good, you've decided already. Were you serious? If so, why? And forget the Audi's - not even remotely concerned.

 

[srobak]

the benz e class and bmw 5 series are over priced

Yes they are, both on their own face - and especially in contrast to something like the G2.

mid sized sedans.

Nope. Yet again. These are FULL size sedans. Not by my standards or classifications - but by the industry.

they are small in conparison to the genesis g2.

Nope. I have just researched this yet again. The A6, 5 series and E350 are ALL within 9/10ths of an inch the size of a G2 - in width, height and length.

The genesis is through and through a large full size sedan

Nope. It is one or the other - it is not both. Again - industry standards - not mine. The G2 is a full size. The G90 will be large - and at nearly 4 inches wider and a 7in longer.

hyundai didnt try to squeeze out a large sedan from a midsized underpinning,

You're right - they designed a fresh full size sedan.

it IS a large sedan from start to finish.

Nope. It is a full size sedan on a freshly designed chassis, start to finish. The G90 is a large sedan from start to finish.

and the g2 is a better designed car than the audi a8

In some few respects - it might be. In most - it is not. This was pointed out by the OP of the thread, and confirmed by just about everyone in the thread except you... including the ones who have disagreed with me on class comparisons and other things.

the a8 looks like a front wheel drive sedan

You need to get your eyes checked. It looks like a RWD - and doesn't even look like the AWD that it is.

and if u look at the audi a8 as a whole, the front end looks short vs the rest of the car.....the overhang in front of the front axle looks fake.

The length of the 2015 A8 nose from A-pillar to front bumper is 5ft 3.5in. I measured this in our motorpool today after reading this post earlier and laughing.

The length of the 2015 nose from A-pillar to front bumper is 5ft 1in. 2.5in shorter than the A8.

The A8 is also 8in longer overall - and that's before considering the L version which tacks on another 4 inches - which the G2 doesn't even offer.
Additionally - the 7 is 6in longer (non-L) 5in longer still as an L, the S is 11in longer and the LS is 5in longer with the L being another 5in longer than that.

As far as the front overhang being fake - I assure you it is quite functional. It doesn't have that gigantic grille up front for no reason. It is stuffed full of radiators for engine coolant, oil cooler, trans cooler and intercooler... not to mention the bumper and a fair amount of electronics. And let's face it - the G2 has been accused of copying design it just as G1 copied Mercs earlier ones.

Now - the G2 sure looks good... not denying that at all. I love how mine looks and my G90 will look even better - and it's hood will be even longer than that of the G2.

although lexus sticks to rear wheel drive for their premium offerings, they still don't exemplify the long hood, slung back cabin look of the genesis.

I will measure one later tonight or tomorrow and let you know... but I suspect you to be wrong here as well.

the genesis dh is from start to finish a rear wheel drive large sedan, and the design philosophy is based on that platform itself.

The design philosophy is based mostly on previous BMW and Audi designs, is visually evident and confirmed by the fact that former Audi and BMW head designers Peter Schreyer and Albert Biermann now work for and headed up the design of the entire new Genesis line.

the audi a8 is not proportionally correct, the genesis dh on the otherhand exemplifies what a rear wheel drive sedan should look like.

With a shorter nose, body and wheelbase? Sure. OK.

very few cars these days truly protray a genuine porportioned rear wheel drive look.

The G2/80 does. As does the G90. So does the 7 series, the S class, the LS and yes - even the A8.

 

[srobak]

Apparently - you're choosing the G90 as "your next ride" sight unseen since it's not out yet.

Not only have I seen it and touched it - but I have also sat in it. 3 production units were at the NAIAS, Chicago and LA. As I live in Chicago - I made damned sure to go and see what I anticipated then would be my next car.

I am curious as to why?

I have owned 2 7's in the past. Damned fine riding, driving, comforting and enjoyable automobiles. It pampers and makes driving as much as I do enjoyable like almost no other car made... but with incredibly high new pricetag, horrible depreciation, horrible maintenance and repair costs and horrible longevity from a mechanical perspective. Now try putting an extended warranty on a 7. Forget it.

After sitting in the G90s - spending time in all 4 seats, looking under the hood, underneath, in the trunk and spending roughly an hour scrutinizing every inch of the car - and currently owning a G2 - I was sold.

The G90 takes all the positives in those regards from the G2/80 (better (but still not great) depreciation, affordable maintenance and practically no repair costs for 100k, covered longevity for 100k and an affordable extended b2b warranty) and puts it into a sharp looking, feature laden, large, quiet, smooth, 7 series class car at 25+% cheaper if bought new. It gets me more than close enough in the areas of pampering, isolation, drive and comfort for so much in savings.

It really is a no-brainer for those of us who are budget-conscious, plan to keep the car quite a while and still want that class of car. I am epically happy with my G2 and I have no doubts the G90 will leave me equally happy when I pick one up in a few years - likely also as a CPO as was my G2.

 

[Genentec]

u are measuring it wrong. U totally missed the point again.

its all in proportion to where the front axle are situated. With the genesis, the front axle are pushed up front giving off a short overhang.

u seem to not understand design porportions. this posting proves u dont as u miss the point over and over again.

the audi is literally 3x more expensive than the genesis 5.0, but the differences are not 3x better.

given his task, john krsteski did a fine job with the design. his attempt to have to follow design trends while still pulling off something fresh and studly IMO is a quite an accomplishment.

u can tell there was a lot of thought put into the design and overall driving characteristics.....ya the audi has quite alot more feauturea, but uh...its 3x as much.

Yes they are, especially in contrast to something like the G2.



Nope. Yet again. These are FULL size sedans. Not by my standards or classifications - but by the industry.



Nope. I have just researched this yet again. The A6, 5 series and E350 are ALL within 9/10ths of an inch the size of a G2 - in width, height and length.



Nope. It is one or the other - it is not both. Again - industry standards - not mine. The G2 is a full size. The G90 will be large - and at nearly 4 inches wider and a foot longer.



You're right - they designed a fresh full size sedan.



Nope. It is a full size sedan on a freshly designed chassis, start to finish. The G90 is a large sedan from start to finish.



In some few respects - it might be. In most - it is not. This was pointed out by the OP of the thread, and confirmed by just about everyone in the thread except you... including the ones who have disagreed with me on class comparisons and other things.



You need to get your eyes checked. It looks like a RWD - and doesn't even look like the AWD that it is.



The length of the 2015 A8 nose from A-pillar to front bumper is 5ft 3.5in. I measured this in our motorpool today after reading this post earlier and laughing.

The length of the 2015 nose from A-pillar to front bumper is 5ft 1in. 2.5in shorter than the A8.

The A8 is also 8in longer overall - and that's before considering the L version which tacks on another 4 inches - which the G2 doesn't even offer.
Additionally - the 7 is 6in longer (non-L) 5in longer still as an L, the S is 11in longer and the LS is 5in longer with the L being another 5in longer than that.

As far as the front overhang being fake - I assure you it is quite functional. It doesn't have that gigantic grille up front for no reason. It is stuffed full of radiators for engine coolant, oil cooler, trans cooler and intercooler... not to mention the bumper and a fair amount of electronics. And let's face it - the G2 has been accused of copying design it just as G1 copied Mercs earlier ones.

Now - the G2 sure looks good... not denying that at all. I love how mine looks and my G90 will look even better - and it's hood will be even longer than that of the G2.



I will measure one later tonight or tomorrow and let you know... but I suspect you to be wrong here as well.



The design philosophy is based mostly on previous BMW and Audi designs, is visually evident and confirmed by the fact that former Audi and BMW head designers Peter Schreyer and Albert Biermann now work for and headed up the design of the entire new Genesis line.



With a shorter nose, body and wheelbase? Sure. OK.



The G2/80 does. As does the G90. So does the 7 series, the S class, the LS and yes - even the A8.

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[srobak]

u are measuring it wrong. U totally missed the point again.

I used a measuring tape. There is no wrong way to measure with one of those. YOU have missed the point throughout this ENTIRE thread by trying to compare 2 non-like class cars and calling them equal for a basis of comparison. They are not.

You said the A8 didn't have a long nose while the G2 did. Well - not only is the G8 a significantly larger car - but it also has a significantly longer nose. End of story.

its all in proportion to where the front axle are situated. With the genesis, the front axle are pushed up front giving off a short overhang. u seem to not understand design porportions.

Guess what - the A8 shares similar proportions to other same-class vehicles such as the 7 and the S. Or are they all doing it wrong too?

this posting proves u dont as u miss the point over and over again.

Your posting proves you don't understand that you are still trying to compare 2 different class vehicles - and are going apples to oranges. Numerous people have explained this to you in the thread, but you still just.dont.get.it. FITFO already!

the audi is literally 3x more expensive than the genesis 5.0, but the differences are not 3x better.

The Audi is 2.25x more expensive (literally) because it is a different class of car that competes directly with other cars that are (literally) 2.25x more expensive (such as the 7 and the S). Not one of them is 2.25x better than the G2, nor are any of the same-class cars (A6, 5, E) that are 1.3x more expensive as the G2 or 1.3x better. By the same token - the 7, A8 and S are all about 1.35x more expensive than what the G90 will be - yet none of them are 1.35x better either.

given his task, john krsteski did a fine job with the design. his attempt to have to follow design trends while still pulling off something fresh and studly IMO is a quite an accomplishment.

Yes, he did... no one is arguing that whatsoever. But do realize the did so under the guidance of the aforementioned BMW and Audi design chiefs - and it is beyond obvious.

 

[turnne]

I have owned 2 7's in the past. Damned fine riding, driving, comforting and enjoyable automobiles. It pampers and makes driving as much as I do enjoyable like almost no other car made... but with incredibly high new pricetag, horrible depreciation, horrible maintenance and repair costs and horrible longevity from a mechanical perspective. Now try putting an extended warranty on a 7. Forget it.

After sitting in the G90s - spending time in all 4 seats, looking under the hood, underneath, in the trunk and spending roughly an hour scrutinizing every inch of the car - and currently owning a G2 - I was sold.

The G90 takes all the positives in those regards from the G2/80 (better (but still not great) depreciation, affordable maintenance and practically no repair costs for 100k, covered longevity for 100k and an affordable extended b2b warranty) and puts it into a sharp looking, feature laden, large, quiet, smooth, 7 series class car at 25+% cheaper if bought new. It gets me more than close enough in the areas of pampering, isolation, drive and comfort for so much in savings.

It really is a no-brainer for those of us who are budget-conscious, plan to keep the car quite a while and still want that class of car. I am epically happy with my G2 and I have no doubts the G90 will leave me equally happy when I pick one up in a few years - likely also as a CPO as was my G2.

7 series cars have poor depreciation in that price class

you are far better off with an S class...and since they sell so many more S classes( than 7 series) I guess the market agrees

what year 7 series did you have?

I bought a CPO several years ago and really didnt have any issues until about 95K miles when I had some oil leaks. BMW good willed me a portion of the $1300 repair bill because I had complained about the same issue when the car was still under the CPO warranty

Other than that it was a cheaper car than the Mercedes S class that I had that preceded it
However..the Mercedes was also a more complicated and cutting edge car than the BMW was
No self closing doors, finishes were a step down and the stereo was inferior to the Mercedes


How in the world would you know the statement you made below?
"
The G90 takes all the positives in those regards from the G2/80 (better (but still not great) depreciation[/B]"


I would go ahead and say I seriously disagree with that
In fact..I am going to the say the G90 will have a higher rate of depreciation and discounting than the G2/80

The G2 has the same large discounting and resale as the first generation Genesis
I would say expect the same from the G90 that is part of the Equus equation now

I see some good deals on 2-3 year old cars coming both in the G80 and G90 iteration...


You really need to look at the leases...the lease factors and their contract residuals to figure out real quickly that Hyundai is heavily subsidizing these leases vs other cars at the same price that hold value better

You have also said a few times that you are not a stickler for finishes and cutting edge technology

Well...I think the buyer of a 70K plus car is
You have no doubt seen this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxi4U8ZGU3Y

I think I can without question ...that this will be the best selling car in the 70K range. So..I am using it as a litmus test of expectation of finish , technology and customization options

Clearly..the 100K cars have more of all of this...but we are not talking about 100K cars

The other part..mentioned in another thread..is the Cadillac factor
They have some highly rated cars in the last few years and the CTS has made the 10 best list 3 years in a row now
They have performance variants that seem to play with the Germans on about every level with highly rated V series cars
Though neither the CTS or ATS is not really selling well

I am sure you have seen this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKjZfSH0uVA

I can frankly see the CTS as a real competitor to the G2

The new CT6 will be at the price of the G90 and I can see it as a viable alternative
I understand Cadillac is admitting the car will not compete with the S class etc

However...I think they have a a higher end sedan in the works to compete with the likes of the S class etc that I expect will push the envelope on finishes and technology and should have a sticker at or close to $100K

Interesting times


Warren

 

[kn5owa]

Not only have I seen it and touched it - but I have also sat in it. 3 production units were at the NAIAS, Chicago and LA. As I live in Chicago - I made damned sure to go and see what I anticipated then would be my next car.



I have owned 2 7's in the past. Damned fine riding, driving, comforting and enjoyable automobiles. It pampers and makes driving as much as I do enjoyable like almost no other car made... but with incredibly high new pricetag, horrible depreciation, horrible maintenance and repair costs and horrible longevity from a mechanical perspective. Now try putting an extended warranty on a 7. Forget it.

After sitting in the G90s - spending time in all 4 seats, looking under the hood, underneath, in the trunk and spending roughly an hour scrutinizing every inch of the car - and currently owning a G2 - I was sold.

The G90 takes all the positives in those regards from the G2/80 (better (but still not great) depreciation, affordable maintenance and practically no repair costs for 100k, covered longevity for 100k and an affordable extended b2b warranty) and puts it into a sharp looking, feature laden, large, quiet, smooth, 7 series class car at 25+% cheaper if bought new. It gets me more than close enough in the areas of pampering, isolation, drive and comfort for so much in savings.

It really is a no-brainer for those of us who are budget-conscious, plan to keep the car quite a while and still want that class of car. I am epically happy with my G2 and I have no doubts the G90 will leave me equally happy when I pick one up in a few years - likely also as a CPO as was my G2.

By "7's" , you're still comparing to Audi's, I presume. I couldn't care less, although I may look at Audi's out of curiosity, now.

Back to G80's, G90's, When you looked at them and touched them, and scrutinized every inch, what did you see, like, for example, the available engines and xmsn's? Wheels, tires? And the fit & finish?

I was an engineer in my former life, more concerned with the substantive features of cars. A good air conditioner means more to me than half the gadgets on my G2 (It has a good one). Ease of service? Whoops - they left that one out on the G2, but I've mastered that one, used to it now. And, of course, the V8 and 8 spd. xmsn are great, as is the gas mileage.

Lastly, I thought you were buying this fall - in a "few years" lots of things change. I may be buying this fall, however, which is why I was curious about your source of information.

The reason for the early possible replacement for my '15 G2 was a bad hail storm about a week ago. It's in the shop now - but I've been down that road before and the cars are never like new.

 

[turnne]

The Audi is 2.25x more expensive (literally) because it is a different class of car that competes directly with other cars that are (literally) 2.25x more expensive (such as the 7 and the S). Not one of them is 2.25x better than the G2, nor are any of the same-class cars (A6, 5, E) that are 1.3x more expensive as the G2 1.3x better. By the same token - the 7, A8 and S are all about 1.35x more expensive than what the G90 will be - yet none of them are 1.35x better either.


.

People buying A8's/7 series/S class cars are not value motivated
They want the finest finishes and cutting edge technology to name a couple of things
Is the G2 worth that much more than a Sonata?..
I bet you would get a large amount of people that say no

or a Honda Accord
A car that has proven to be bullet proof and has resale so high that if you keep it several years it will likely be worth as much as the G2 would be on the used car market

what is a 6 year old 75K mile used Accord worth vs a Genesis?

But any manufactured product...be it TV's...audio equipment..etc
To get the best of the best..its never a good value
Cutting edge technology,upgraded finishes, economies of scale and manual process add a lot of cost

Warren

 

[turnne]

By "7's" , you're still comparing to Audi's, I presume. I couldn't care less, although I may look at Audi's out of curiosity, now.

Back to G80's, G90's, When you looked at them and touched them, and scrutinized every inch, what did you see, like, for example, the available engines and xmsn's? Wheels, tires? And the fit & finish?

I was an engineer in my former life, more concerned with the substantive features of cars. A good air conditioner means more to me than half the gadgets on my G2 (It has a good one). Ease of service? Whoops - they left that one out on the G2, but I've mastered that one, used to it now.

Lastly, I thought you were buying this fall - in a "few years" lots of things change. I may be buying this fall, however, which is why I was curious about your source of information.

The reason for the early possible replacement for my '15 G2 was a bad hail storm about a week ago. It's in the shop now - but I've been down that road before and the cars are never like new.

do yourself a HUGE favor and wait until the G90 gets 2-3 years old

IMO..the resale( vs other cars in the same price class) is going to be brutal....so let the market take the hit vs your finances

as far as ease of service...I am thinking that is not going to be user friendly as in most any model luxury car

But..I suspect they will have a certain amount of free service
perhaps its only for the original owner

But..no matter with the 10's of thousands you will save after the car has depreciated in 2-3 years..you will still be better off paying for service at the dealer

Warren

 

[kn5owa]

People buying A8's/7 series/S class cars are not value motivated
They want the finest finishes and cutting edge technology to name a couple of things
Is the G2 worth that much more than a Sonata?..
I bet you would get a large amount of people that say no

or a Honda Accord
A car that has proven to be bullet proof and has resale so high that if you keep it several years it will likely be worth as much as the G2 would be on the used car market

what is a 6 year old 75K mile used Accord worth vs a Genesis?

But any manufactured product...be it TV's...audio equipment..etc
To get the best of the best..its never a good value
Cutting edge technology,upgraded finishes, economies of scale and manual process add a lot of cost

Warren

What do you mean by "cutting edge technology" -- More gadgets?? I don't know of any car that that has cutting edge technology. As an engineer in my my former life, cutting edge technology means sending deep space missions to Pluto and retrieving high res. photos. Silly gadgets are not "cutting edge", just good money makers. For example, all of that Apple Junk. My ham radio transceiver eclipses anything in cars in the realm of modern communications. And, I mean way beyond the silly "phone" and social "web-site" teeny-bopper nonsense.

Is the G2 Genesis worth more than a Sonata? I bought two '06 Sonata's and one '15 Genesis G2 - my total Hyundai experience. All are great cars. My experience with the Sonata's led to my purchase of the G2. Good quality control & reliability - all cars.

Of course the G2 is worth more. No doubt about that. It's a big 4600 lb sedan with a nice 5.0 V8. Goes like a bat outta hell and no problems whatsoever. That's my country car, and the remaining Sonata (I sold one) is my town car. Lucky to have both.

You like Accord's -- then that's what you should buy - no brainer.

 

[kn5owa]

do yourself a HUGE favor and wait until the G90 gets 2-3 years old

IMO..the resale( vs other cars in the same price class) is going to be brutal....so let the market take the hit vs your finances

as far as ease of service...I am thinking that is not going to be user friendly as in most any model luxury car

But..I suspect they will have a certain amount of free service
perhaps its only for the original owner

But..no matter with the 10's of thousands you will save after the car has depreciated in 2-3 years..you will still be better off paying for service at the dealer

Warren

I don't even look at warranties & depreciation etc etc --- all pure speculation. I buy what I want. Funny little addendum here: When I was making the check out for my G2, I got a high pressure sales talk for service K's (contracts). Boy - did the lady get mad when I turned down the $6K or $7K in K's and she lost her commission.

Service? I do my own - got the experience and the tools - better equipped than the dealer in both depts. Just did the oil/oil filter change on the 5.0 V8 - almost kind of fun - but not quite.

 

[srobak]

7 series cars have poor depreciation in that price class

Most vehicles in that class do - including the S. To demonstrate:

2014 S550 MSRP was 96500. Current prices are about 54300. That's a 44% depreciation in 3 years.
2014 750i MSRP was 88200 when comparably equipped. Current prices are about 49000. That's also a (high) 44% depreciation in 3 years.

you are far better off with an S class...and since they sell so many more S classes( than 7 series) I guess the market agrees

That's anecdotal as far as an analysis goes. Just because something sells more doesn't mean it is better nor that it will retain a higher value. Bose and Beats sell more headphones than almost the entire rest of the industry combined... that doesn't mean their product is any good - and the reality is they have both been the biggest insult & black eye to the personal audio world since the introduction of the ipod. And how many years did the Ford Taurus hold the top domestic sedan sales figures through the 90s and 2000s? And we all know how much of a piece of shit car that was... and still is today.

However - to that effect... a 2014 Taurus had an MSRP of 26800. Today it sells for 15000. That's a 41% depreciation in 3 years. Notably less than the BMW 7 or the S class. Does that mean it is a better car? No. Does that mean it is a better value? No. In reality it doesn't prove anything other than something else I have been saying all along: Higher class cars depreciate more rapidly. This is why the S depreciates faster than the G2. This is also why the G90 will depreciate faster than the G80.

Other than that it was a cheaper car than the Mercedes S class that I had that preceded it. However..the Mercedes was also a more complicated and cutting edge car than the BMW was. No self closing doors, finishes were a step down and the stereo was inferior to the Mercedes

Sounds to me like you had 2 different ends of the package and option spectrums within the same class of car. Varying trim & option levels are not exclusive to lower class cars... nor is Merc immune from it. In 3 mouse clicks I can nearly double the price of an S on the "build mine" page.

How in the world would you know the statement you made below?

Because the G2 depreciates slower than the comparable equipped 5 series. I've posted those numbers before. I'll not do it again. Scroll up if you want to see them. Does it still depreciate a lot? Yes. But it does depreciate slower. While we will not know for sure until 3 to 4 years after the G90 is out - I have confidence in seeing a similar trend there as well.

I might also add - not even your beloved Merc is immune from the depreciation monster. A 2015 E350 4matic equipped to match a 2015 G2 AWD Ultimate had an MSRP of 72000. Current market value is 45500 - a 37% depreciation in 2 years.

The G2 MSRP was 53000 and has current market value of 39400. 26% depreciation. 11% less than the 350. Numbers don't lie. Merc doesn't hold value. It never has. None of the Germans have.

I would go ahead and say I seriously disagree with that. In fact..I am going to the say the G90 will have a higher rate of depreciation and discounting than the G2/80

That actually IS what I said. The higher class cars - regardless of manufacturer - will have higher depreciation rates. The G90 is no exception to this rule.

I see some good deals on 2-3 year old cars coming both in the G80 and G90 iteration...

Yep - looking forward to getting a good of a deal on my CPO G90 as I did on my CPO G2. I am also looking forward to both holding their value longer than their E/S/A6/A8/5/7 counterparts as well.

You really need to look at the leases...

No, I don't. Leasing has nothing to do with owning. I drive waaay too many miles to lease, and I keep my cars waaay too long. Leasing works for many - but does not work for me.

You have also said a few times that you are not a stickler for finishes and cutting edge technology

No, that's not what I said. I said the finish in the G2 is close enough to that of a 5 and A6. I also said that Merc finishes are actually rather gaudy in nature and come across as trying too hard just for the sake of doing so. Much like the Equus does. It actually detracts heavily from the appeal.

I also said that good & smart tech is what will help keep the Genesis more affordable - vs. those who throw what is honestly silly tech in simply because they have run out of innovative things to do. Cases in point include fragrances, gestures in the air for phone and volume control, and creep-along garage parking.

You have no doubt seen this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxi4U8ZGU3Y

Yes, we all have - in one of the 3 previous times you have posted it.

I think I can without question ...that this will be the best selling car in the 70K range. So..I am using it as a litmus test of expectation of finish , technology and customization options

Yeah, it probably will be... partially because of the lane changing (Tesla already does that btw) and partially because of the dashboard tech. The larger part will simply be because of historical heritage, brand recognition and international presence. This is something that not even any other German car company has. I might also add that it is the same reason why Ford also sells the most of any US brand, and has consistently for decades. That still doesn't mean their product is any good.

That being said - expect the G80 to have the lane-change thing and an updated dash display for 2018... or 2019 at the latest. The G90 will probably get it for 19 or 20.

Clearly..the 100K cars have more of all of this...but we are not talking about 100K cars

Well... that was the idea - but a few people kept trying to compare the G2 to the out-of-class A8 - which is a 100k car. That's what started this entire thread and resulted in it scrolling as much as it has.

The other part..mentioned in another thread..is the Cadillac factor

Cadillac will have about as much of a factor in my future purchases as Audi does: None.

Unfortunately Cadillac has the stigma of GM all over it - and no amount of rejuvination of the brand will shake that off for many, many years. Hyundai also has this problem thanks to their initial crap entry into the markets with crappy cars. However - they have made a whole lot more headway in the market share after re-inventing themselves about 10 years ago than Caddy has.

I am sure you have seen this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKjZfSH0uVA
I can frankly see the CTS as a real competitor to the G2

Of course we all have - it's been out for 2 years and was one of the first videos to expose the G2 and give a decent review of it. However - just like the guys said at the end of the video: "We agree the CTS is the better vehicle, but it is not $17,000 better."

That sums it up right there... and it is EXACTLY what Hyundai wants to hear. You can also hear similar comments of the 5 series, E class and A6. The CTS wants to play in their pricepoint - but still doesn't have the value that the Genesis does. To pour salt on that wound - and set it on fire I might add;

The 2015 Vsport in the video priced out at 72640 and has seen a massive 30000 in depreciation. That is a downright painful 42% depreciation - which eclipses and far outpaces both the Genesis AND all of the same-class Germans.

Once again - Caddy just cannot get away from the GM stigma and the effect that it has. This factor alone makes that car NOT a competitor, by any means. If you think you are going to take a beating on the resale of a G2 (despite what the market is showing right now) - trying to dump your CTSV is gonna make you feel like a pinata at a quinceanera on Cinco de Mayo.

Sorry pal - but I wouldn't touch that car with a 10 foot pole. Not mine nor yours. Not a chance.

The new CT6 will be at the price of the G90 and I can see it as a viable alternative

It's gonna suffer the same fate. Sorry to say - but it is the truth. Also - the CTSV is already the price of the G90.

 

[srobak]

By "7's" , you're still comparing to Audi's, I presume.

No. 2 BMW 7-series that I've had. That is what I had and would be gunning for - and the G90 is going to get me very close to it at a huge savings. I'm ok with the few & minor differences there will be between the vehicles - just as I am now of my G2 vs. the 5 series.

Back to [...] G90's, When you looked at them and touched them, and scrutinized every inch, what did you see, like, for example, the available engines and xmsn's? Wheels, tires? And the fit & finish?

The exterior styling was superb. Same as what my G2 has now - but of course much larger, more refined, more sharp in appearance. The front end is proud and looks confident. I have always loved the turbine-style wheels from the Equus - and those are a very good fit on the G90. The interior kept a lot of what I liked from the interior of the G2 - and then kicked it up a notch. Lots of interior refinement... seat and armrest material was improved over the G2, switches were aluminum and felt more "positive" & with greater quality & strength. They were also properly aligned in 2 rows, like the current G2 is - and contrary to anything from the Germans other than BMW. The door handle was solid and aluminum over the G2's chromed plastic. The spread of the dash was wide and felt like an open plain compared to the G2. The rear seats are just lavish... so much room and perfectly contoured comfort. It was a major step up over the Equus top back seat. None of the controls anywhere in the car suffered from the cheap tackiness that the ones in the Equus did.

To be completely honest - the interior of this car felt every bit of quality, logic, lux, strength and comfort that the 2013 7 series I was briefly considering vs. my G2 did. The similarities in the feel & impression between the two of them was almost bang-on. Had you blind-folded someone and put them inside the car after their having been inside the 2013 7 series - they'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference. It was damned impressive and is a massive step up from the Equus and very notable but not as extreme of a step up over the G2. I honestly cannot wait to get it.

I was an engineer in my former life, more concerned with the substantive features of cars. A good air conditioner means more to me than half the gadgets on my G2 (It has a good one).

You and I think alike. Some proper gadgetry that does have a genuine use is nice... but I prefer function over form. I prefer logic and refinement over gaudiness and disarray. That is why BMW has always appealed to me in style & interior design - and it is precisely why I prefer the G2 and G90 as well. The first time I sat in a G2 in the showroom I immediately said this looks and feels like a 5 series. It was almost instantaneous recognition. The design influences were beyond obvious.

Lastly, I thought you were buying this fall - in a "few years" lots of things change.

Nope - I bought my G2 last fall. I am into it for a few years yet with the bank Once I am done (or close enough) - I will be getting into a CPO G90... I am guessing a 2018 model.

The reason for the early possible replacement for my '15 G2 was a bad hail storm about a week ago. It's in the shop now - but I've been down that road before and the cars are never like new.

Yeah I saw that elsewhere... and reading it pained me. I couldn't imagine what I would think if it happened to mine. Sorry to hear you fell victim. Not sure how long you are planning to hold out - but don't expect to see a G90 before August or September.

But do know that it is an absolutely fantastic automobile.

Here are some nice videos that give you a real look inside and out.
Even though this first one is in Korean - it is probably the best. The others are good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nARRjccTmVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38eQI10uLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xgzzGFY6E

 

[Genentec]

srobak u need to get a life. U have wasted a lot od peoples time here, that and the fact that u actually measured the front end is total comedy.