2016 Audi A8 L - The bar is still pretty high

[turnne]

What do you mean by "cutting edge technology" -- More gadgets??

You like Accord's -- then that's what you should buy - no brainer.

Clearly
I meant cutting edge technology in the automotive sense
What you call gadgets..others may consider necessary
its all about perspective

You use a Sonata as an example
I assume there was a reason..likely financial that you bought it rather than an Accord?

I don't even look at warranties & depreciation etc etc --- all pure speculation. I buy what I want. Funny little addendum here: When I was making the check out for my G2, I got a high pressure sales talk for service K's (contracts). Boy - did the lady get mad when I turned down the $6K or $7K in K's and she lost her commission.

Service? I do my own - got the experience and the tools - better equipped than the dealer in both depts. Just did the oil/oil filter change on the 5.0 V8 - almost kind of fun - but not quite.

You dont even look at warranties and depreciation?

I assume you mean extended warranty?

Depreciation is actually not too hard to calculate if the car has been in the market for a year or two
Depreciation will be the largest cost in a new car the first 5 years and it will vary widely..even in the same price range of cars

Warren

 

[turnne]

Most vehicles in that class do - including the S. To demonstrate:

2014 S550 MSRP was 96500. Current prices are about 54300. That's a 44% depreciation in 3 years.
2014 750i MSRP was 88200 when comparably equipped. Current prices are about 49000. That's also a (high) 44% depreciation in 3 years.

and $200,000 vehicles have even more depreciation...I am not sure what your point was
You used a 7 series and I said the S class has had better resale than a 7 series
BTW..your numbers above look high on a 7 series and too low on the S class
btw...since we disagree about classes and prices
What does the new Cadillac CT6 compete with?

That's anecdotal as far as an analysis goes. Just because something sells more doesn't mean it is better nor that it will retain a higher value. Bose and Beats sell more headphones than almost the entire rest of the industry combined... that doesn't mean their product is any good - and the reality is they have both been the biggest insult & black eye to the personal audio world since the introduction of the ipod. And how many years did the Ford Taurus hold the top domestic sedan sales figures through the 90s and 2000s? And we all know how much of a piece of shit car that was... and still is today.

However - to that effect... a 2014 Taurus had an MSRP of 26800. Today it sells for 15000. That's a 41% depreciation in 3 years. Notably less than the BMW 7 or the S class. Does that mean it is a better car? No. Does that mean it is a better value? No. In reality it doesn't prove anything other than something else I have been saying all along: Higher class cars depreciate more rapidly. This is why the S depreciates faster than the G2. This is also why the G90 will depreciate faster than the G80.

Give me an example of cars that sells a lot more in the same price range that doesn't hold better resale?
I use the sales figure..in total ,as the car holding the banner for the class
In the same price range of car depreciation can vary widely
Hence my example of comparing the 3 series to the G2
They are close to the same price new...there is a difference and based on the 3 series compared to the first generation Genesis there will be a few thousand dollars difference in 5 years

I say this with pretty good certainty because the G2 is pricing out( in the market) the same way the first generation did

BTW....what is a 3 year Genesis resale retention?
I see about 50% for a 3 year old car with 35K miles

Because the G2 depreciates slower than the comparable equipped 5 series. I've posted those numbers before. I'll not do it again. Scroll up if you want to see them. Does it still depreciate a lot? Yes. But it does depreciate slower. While we will not know for sure until 3 to 4 years after the G90 is out - I have confidence in seeing a similar trend there as well.

I might also add - not even your beloved Merc is immune from the depreciation monster. A 2015 E350 4matic equipped to match a 2015 G2 AWD Ultimate had an MSRP of 72000. Current market value is 45500 - a 37% depreciation in 2 years.

The G2 MSRP was 53000 and has current market value of 39400. 26% depreciation. 11% less than the 350. Numbers don't lie. Merc doesn't hold value. It never has. None of the Germans have.

Again...you can use cars of large gaps in price to analyze resale

You should compare a G2 to the sales leader in this price range...the 3 series...where it certainly does not compare well

I use an E class, the leader in sedans for that price range, for comparison to an Equus...where the Equus does not deliver the resale of the E class

Shall we discuss the Kia K900...at almost 50% in 1 year?
From $68K to $34K for a certified 2015 with 20K miles available in my market
But..a great value for $34K...IMO...nothing even close to that technology for that price

And I will state again
I could not be more satisfied for what I paid for my certified Equus
It was about a used 3 series price

That actually IS what I said. The higher class cars - regardless of manufacturer - will have higher depreciation rates. The G90 is no exception to this rule.

and based on the large discounts on the G2...one can only expect it to be larger on the G90
Like I said earlier and I think we have a C note on the table...
When the G90 s widely available...I speculate

1. It will be discounted like the Equus was ..and will hold about the same resale
2. In no way will it outsell the Lexus LS460....which itself is not burning up any sale records in the last few years
3. I predict the sales leader in the price range with be the new Mercedes E class...and even when that car is widely available ...the discounts will not be anywhere near the G90 discounts to move them

Yep - looking forward to getting a good of a deal on my CPO G90 as I did on my CPO G2. I am also looking forward to both holding their value longer than their E/S/A6/A8/5/7 counterparts as well.

in no way...will a 3 year old G90 be worth as much as a 3 year old E class
that is part of our bet..

No, I don't. Leasing has nothing to do with owning. I drive waaay too many miles to lease, and I keep my cars waaay too long. Leasing works for many - but does not work for me.

I was suggesting you lease
I was stating to use the lease as a calculation factor
Manufacturers etc set residuals for a lease
They sometimes artificially inflate the residuals to move cars and lower lease payments
So..in theory..cars in the same price range should have the same lease payment
But..resale varies so widely in the same price range..they have to inflate the residual to get the payment competitive
My example...a G2 lease should be WAY more than a 3 series lease payment based on their resale value at the end
But..its in fact almost the same but Hyundai is having to "eat" the difference to move since they know they will never lease a G2 when someone asks why its $150 a month more than a 3 series

No, that's not what I said. I said the finish in the G2 is close enough to that of a 5 and A6. I also said that Merc finishes are actually rather gaudy in nature and come across as trying too hard just for the sake of doing so. Much like the Equus does. It actually detracts heavily from the appeal.

Close enough for you is not close enough for others
I dont think the G2 is really better than the first generation genesis in regard to interior ...I would say they are different..but one is really not better
But that is my opinion
As for the Equus...I like the interior...excluding a few things that feel like they are from a much cheaper car
It has more wood in it than any Hyundai past or present....that happens to be one of my litmus tests of finishes is the amount and quality of the wood trim
Though sadly...there are no different wood options available in the Equus
Something that even a 3 series has

I also said that good & smart tech is what will help keep the Genesis more affordable - vs. those who throw what is honestly silly tech in simply because they have run out of innovative things to do. Cases in point include fragrances, gestures in the air for phone and volume control, and creep-along garage parking.



Yes, we all have - in one of the 3 previous times you have posted it.

I actually like the garage parking and street parking assistant as well as a few other features
But..I am a fan of technology
Quite honestly..if I wasnt..there are far cheaper cars that have a lot of features
The Chrysler 300 comes to mind

Glad you have seen the video...then you can really see the video and differences in finishes and feature set

Yeah, it probably will be... partially because of the lane changing (Tesla already does that btw) and partially because of the dashboard tech. The larger part will simply be because of historical heritage, brand recognition and international presence. This is something that not even any other German car company has. I might also add that it is the same reason why Ford also sells the most of any US brand, and has consistently for decades. That still doesn't mean their product is any good.

That being said - expect the G80 to have the lane-change thing and an updated dash display for 2018... or 2019 at the latest. The G90 will probably get it for 19 or 20.

If you back out the trucks and Suv's...Ford would not even be close
and in both of those categories I think Ford and GM do VERY well

if they get the lane changing "thing" in 2019 or 2020...is that innovative?
By then there will be something else that has advanced..I assure you
if a luxury brand wants name recognition at this point I am not sure they get it by being 2-4 late to the party on features

ofcourse..as you say it can be "good enough"...but that just means highly discounted

Cadillac will have about as much of a factor in my future purchases as Audi does: None.

Unfortunately Cadillac has the stigma of GM all over it - and no amount of rejuvination of the brand will shake that off for many, many years. Hyundai also has this problem thanks to their initial crap entry into the markets with crappy cars. However - they have made a whole lot more headway in the market share after re-inventing themselves about 10 years ago than Caddy has.

I am not hating on Cadillac recently
Their cars have a distinctive " family" look and they seem to have some entries that are seriously well reviewed...specifically their halo V series cars
Their is a LOT of technology there
As a brand I would say they are sniffing at the germans butts..lol

They have the full size CT6 out now...and my understanding is that there are plans for a more upscale Ct8 to compete with the S class etc
No doubt if that car comes to the market it will be chock full of technology maybe even including the "sprayers" you like so much

Too another point.if it comes to market I suspect they will have a high performance variant to compete with the AMG like high performance germans
Again...all the reviews I have seen have stated that Cadillac is in the game ..especially in high performance

Think about it..who would have thought a company that made the "land yacht" is now in the game and drives at, or near, the germans

Of course we all have - it's been out for 2 years and was one of the first videos to expose the G2 and give a decent review of it. However - just like the guys said at the end of the video: "We agree the CTS is the better vehicle, but it is not $17,000 better."

That sums it up right there... and it is EXACTLY what Hyundai wants to hear. You can also hear similar comments of the 5 series, E class and A6. The CTS wants to play in their pricepoint - but still doesn't have the value that the Genesis does. To pour salt on that wound - and set it on fire I might add;

The 2015 Vsport in the video priced out at 72640 and has seen a massive 30000 in depreciation. That is a downright painful 42% depreciation - which eclipses and far outpaces both the Genesis AND all of the same-class Germans.

Once again - Caddy just cannot get away from the GM stigma and the effect that it has. This factor alone makes that car NOT a competitor, by any means. If you think you are going to take a beating on the resale of a G2 (despite what the market is showing right now) - trying to dump your CTSV is gonna make you feel like a pinata at a quinceanera on Cinco de Mayo.

Sorry pal - but I wouldn't touch that car with a 10 foot pole. Not mine nor yours. Not a chance.



It's gonna suffer the same fate. Sorry to say - but it is the truth. Also - the CTSV is already the price of the G90.

Dont think for a minute that the market is going to pay the same price for a competing Cadillac as they do for a Merc/BMW
GM likes to play with inflated stickers
But..like Hyundai...they discount heavily and subsidize leases to move cars
Actually if you look at the CTS line...its about the same resale at the Genesis
Again..if resale if your motivator...there are probably better cars than either in this same price range

If you look at true CTS-V..not a V sport like the one in the video
I think they are holding resale pretty well..especially in the wagon and manual transmission variety

I think Cadillac is trying to create a broad range of products with the technology of the Gemans to compete with them

I am impressed that they can actually design a chasis and engines that reviewers say are right in step with the Germans

In the real world..today anyway...everyone knows no Cadillac is going to sell at the same price as a Merc or BMW
So..to your point..maybe Cadillac is the car to buy.if you want all the technology and performance at a price lower than the germans

something to think about

I do hope they bring that high end CT8 to the market
I am interested in what they can do in the full size luxury market to compete with the best from Germany

Warren

 

[kn5owa]

Clearly
I meant cutting edge technology in the automotive sense
What you call gadgets..others may consider necessary
its all about perspective

You use a Sonata as an example
I assume there was a reason..likely financial that you bought it rather than an Accord?



You dont even look at warranties and depreciation?

I assume you mean extended warranty?

Depreciation is actually not too hard to calculate if the car has been in the market for a year or two
Depreciation will be the largest cost in a new car the first 5 years and it will vary widely..even in the same price range of cars

Warren

I bought two Sonatas because I liked the cars and there was a dealer close by. Same for the G2, and if you can afford a G2, I'm pretty sure one can get an Accord.

And, warranties? I was aware of the Hyundai factory warranty, but no, I give little credence to any warranties, or insurance policies, for that matter.

I've been around the block a few times, and when push comes to shove, I've found out what they're worth.

Real life example: Look at the many posts on this forum from people trying to get their gadgets fixed. Dealers are totally lost nowadays. And along that line when I bought the G2, they informed me that the time frame for the electronics warranty had been reduced - this was done very emphatically when they were pushing extended warranties.

 

[Alwaysforward]

My brain hurts

 

[Genentec]

I think what some of you really want is a huge wing badge. like something that takes up the entire hood, like trans am firebird

 

[Jaeger]

I bought two Sonatas because I liked the cars and there was a dealer close by. Same for the G2, and if you can afford a G2, I'm pretty sure one can get an Accord.

I bought my Sonata because I liked it better than competing products (Accord included) and felt is delivered solid value for the money. Same for my Genesis purchase. My second choice was the Lexus GS.

Odd that a guy on a Hyundai forum would assume that the main reason you bought a Sonata was that you couldn't afford an Accord.

 

[srobak]

srobak u need to get a life.

You need to not concern yourself with what I do with my time. If you had any inkling of what you were talking about regarding me - then you would have realized quite a while ago that this "car stuff" is actually a rather significant _part_ of my life.

U have wasted a lot od peoples time here

The only person's time I have utilized in the things I have posted here is my own. If you didn't like it or whatever - you were free to scroll right on by. But your malinformed blathering all but necessitated my using my time to illustrate how completely off the mark you were.

the fact that u actually measured the front end is total comedy.

Not at all. In fact - it is just a small part of what you should understand to actually be "total research". See - so much of the stuff you have posted was just flat wrong and false, completely misrepresenting and misleading. In short - it was one of two things... completely void of any actual experience, factual information sources and research - or an outright lie. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not label you as a liar... and I sure as hell hope you don't prove me wrong there.

Instead - I will go with the more likely scenario of you simply being overly excited about the G2 - which is indeed a good thing. Unfortunately - like too many people in society today - they believe that what they have/own/think/do is the "best in the world and nothing can top it." This leads to understandable - however clouded - judgement.

You made the claim that the hood on the A8 was shorter - if even proportionately - than the G2. I did the first-hand research to show you what I already knew was the case before I even whipped out the tape measure - and indeed it was false, and from both perspectives.

You also made the claim that the G2 was what is classified as a "large car" by the industry and that it competed against such sized cars as the 7 series, A8, LS and even the S class. Again - a very small amount of research not only disproved this buy a HUGE margin - but also negated your additional claim that the G2 was notably larger than any of the other cars in it's true class, with all of them being less than one inch in size difference in any given dimension.

Due to these and numerous other claims made by you throughout the threads - I'm not sorry that you think my research and fact checking is a "waste of time" and "comedy"... because quite simply - it does prevent me from looking like I have blinders on while talking out my ass - unlike you have appeared, all thread long.

If you take nothing else from me in this whole thing, then at least do yourself (and the rest of us) this one favor before you make your next post:

RESEARCH. EDUCATE. BEFORE YOU FLAPPULATE!

Thanks.

Moving on....

 

[Genentec]

holy cow here we go again.

 

[dareckibmw]

holy cow here we go again.

It's Friday!

 

[kn5owa]

holy cow here we go again.

Amen on that.

I think I'm the luckiest Genny owner on the forum --

1. I bought the car for it's truly substantive qualities and features (engine, xmsn, brakes, fit & finish, etc)

2. I wasn't remotely concerned about "status" and gadgets.

3. And I most certainly was not concerned about Audi's or German cars, in general, in making my purchase. Although, I will admit to looking at Mercedes E-Class and didn't like the ergonomics.

4. And, I have had zero defects in 15 months now - I'm not counting those little pesky tire/taillight "recalls" back in the day.

Have a nice day!

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Nikgen]

Amen on that.

I think I'm the luckiest Genny owner on the forum --

1. I bought the car for it's truly substantive qualities and features (engine, xmsn, brakes, fit & finish, etc)

2. I wasn't remotely concerned about "status" and gadgets.

3. And I most certainly was not concerned about Audi's or German cars, in general, in making my purchase. Although, I will admit to looking at Mercedes E-Class and didn't like the ergonomics.

4. And, I have had zero defects in 15 months now - I'm not counting those little pesky tire/taillight "recalls back in the day.

Have a nice day!

Actually, I'd say I am the luckiest, but I'm not at liberty to say why...

 

[srobak]

and $200,000 vehicles have even more depreciation...I am not sure what your point was

Not denying that at all. However - as it was you who brought up the depreciation bit.... the point was yours to make, and with my quoted information you missed making it - yet again.

You used a 7 series and I said the S class has had better resale than a 7 series. BTW..your numbers above look high on a 7 series and too low on the S class

And you were right... a 2 year old S has about a 0.7% lesser depreciation than an equally aged and equipped 7 - hence my "(high)" comment. But even by year 2 and certainly by year 3 that becomes a wash... if you really want to start splitting pennies at that point in the first place. If you want to carry it out to year 5 - it then inverts, and that doesn't go far for your argument.

Despite your opinion on the numbers I presented on both vehicles - those are the numbers attributed to the equally aged and equipped cars by the industry. You can take up your perspective about it with them - not me. I don't make the numbers, nor the rules... but I might also remind that neither do you. Take that as you will.

btw...since we disagree about classes and prices What does the new Cadillac CT6 compete with?

Personally? I don't think it competes with anything... as justified by my earlier comments regarding Caddy (and there will be more on that later). However - as I neither make the rules... the industry claims cars such as the Q70, A7, Panamera, MKS and the E class.

Give me an example of cars that sells a lot more in the same price range that doesn't hold better resale?

You're getting back to anecdotal. Again - just because the Merc sells the most doesn't mean it is a good car or a good value. You also invoked double-jeopardy with your criteria: "name a car that sells more in that price range".... that statement alone negates the rest of the criteria as the Merc does sell the most. Now - had you asked me instead to name another car in the price range (despite number of sales) that doesn't hold better value - well that's easy. Caddy and Lincoln are the worst. BMW does for the first 2-3 years, then they invert. Audi is at the 3 to 4 year mark before inversion. Cars that do hold better resale even at year 2 would include Lexus of course, Infinity, Acura and as I showed earlier - Genesis.

In the same price range of car depreciation can vary widely

And this is precisely why car classes are not set by price. Like I said in the other thread - if they were & we used your approach then we would be comparing Honda Accords to Ford F-150s, X3s to G2s and Suburbans to CT6s.

I say this with pretty good certainty because the G2 is pricing out( in the market) the same way the first generation did

I've addressed this before as well. The G1 and even the Equus up through the current year were far from stellar performers. They raised eyebrows, but it wasn't until the G2 that the industry and the competitors - as well the consumers took serious notice. Now with the brand & marque change - there is a huge push to get them out the door to lay the fresh field under the new brand & marque. Other brands have done this in the past too... as soon as a new marque is announced for an existing vehicle - it drives the value of the existing vehicle down.

BTW....what is a 3 year Genesis resale retention? I see about 50% for a 3 year old car with 35K miles

That puts us back to G1's - which are not a realistic player for the reasons stated earlier. This is a question that can only be answered after next year at worst - when the first G2s hit 3 years... but even more realistically in 2019/20 when the G80 hits 3 years.

I use an E class, the leader in sedans for that price range, for comparison to an Equus...where the Equus does not deliver the resale of the E class

We are never going to agree and/or you are never going to understand that price does not dictate class.... and that it also happens to be Hyundai's entire marketing & sales strategy with regards to the G1/G2/Eq/G80/G90... so I am simply not going to engage in this portion of the discussion with you further.

Shall we discuss the Kia K900...at almost 50% in 1 year? From $68K to $34K for a certified 2015 with 20K miles available in my market

44% actually - as loaded MSRP was only 62k - but yeah - the Kia marque does not lend itself well at all to premium vehicles. Even less so than the 1st go by Hyundai with the Equus and the G1. At least Hyundai has been trying for a while - going as far back as the XG - in all of it's ridiculousness too. lol. Let's be honest though - the K900 is not very visually appealing - despite the innards & toys. Not really sure what they were thinking in going with that as their first serious attempt.

And I will state again I could not be more satisfied for what I paid for my certified Equus. It was about a used 3 series price

Only if that 3 was 335 xDrive that was fully loaded and not more than 2 years old. At year 3 it drops 18% more.

and based on the large discounts on the G2...one can only expect it to be larger on the G90

Addressed earlier in this post and in previous.

Like I said earlier and I think we have a C note on the table...
When the G90 s widely available...I speculate

2. In no way will it outsell the Lexus LS460....which itself is not burning up any sale records in the last few years

This is an inconsequential given that was addressed also in an earlier post.

in no way...will a 3 year old G90 be worth as much as a 3 year old E class that is part of our bet..

It absolutely is NOT a part of our bet. If you have gotten NOTHING out of me in this entire discussion - the very least you should have understood is that I do not compete/compare cars across classes! and that price point does not dictate vehicle class. My bet was that it would depreciate less than the S class - not the E. In fact - I even said the G90 would depreciate more than the E in this very quote:

"That being said - of course an E class will depreciate slower than a G90... but because it is a different class car. Case in point it also depreciates slower then an S. However - it [the E] does not depreciate slower than a G2/80 - and I've shown the numbers above to reflect that. The comparisons of the S to the G90 and the differences there in prospected depreciation is a pretty safe extrapolation to make based upon other existing numbers. "​

In the very next sentence where I take the bet I also say:

[B]

Yes. For all the reasons above. 3 to 4 years from now I would love to come back and we post up all the historical results. I am very confident that just like the G2 vs. the 5 series, A6 and E class - the G90 will have better value retention than the S. I'll even put a C-note on it... but with one clear understanding: Value retention is a % vs. msrp. It is NOT a cash value. Major difference.​

[/B]

THAT is the bet that I made - and that is the only condition I am agreeing to. If you want to change the conditions of the bet by bringing a different class of car into the mix - then there is no bet to be had. Because even though the E has an 11% greater depreciation than the G2 - it is not quite enough to absorb the difference in additional depreciation that a vehicle from a higher class would bring into the mix. Only an idiot would take that bet... and that is something I certainly am not.

I was suggesting you lease

And I am again suggesting that your suggestion has no place for me. I am a buyer with huge annual mileage and I drive my cars until the wheels fall off, for the most part.

in theory..cars in the same price range should have the same lease payment. But..resale varies so widely in the same price range..they have to inflate the residual to get the payment competitive

Because they are trying to compete higher classed cars against lower classed competition and and prices. This is a stupid way to shop and it is exactly why setting classes by price points makes no sense - hence why the industry doesn't do it. This kind of tactic is also the #1 reason why dealers see losses not in sales - but instead in profits. I have watched more dealers than I can count close their doors because eventually it catches up to them - as it does not accurately reflect what the market dictates at the end of the car's lease term.

But..its in fact almost the same but Hyundai is having to "eat" the difference to move since they know they will never lease a G2 when someone asks why its $150 a month more than a 3 series

To the contrary - when it comes in at 150 a month less than a 5 series - then it leases itself. Also - the dealer is the one doing the number juggling in that situation - not Hyundai. The worst thing that can happen in that situation is that the car is returned to the dealer it was leased from at the end of the term - because now they are on the hook for the difference of the residual vs. the market. Do that enough times and it cuts into the profit margin at the dealer level pretty heavily... because the car was already bought and paid for from Hyundai when it landed on the dealer's lot.

Close enough for you is not close enough for others

Close enough for enough people is what the goal of Hyundai even introducing the car into the market was. It must be working - otherwise they would not be venturing into spinning off the brand and setting up an entire line of vehicles. If it didn't work - then it would have already been killed - not even just as a brand - but as a vehicle entirely.

I dont think the G2 is really better than the first generation genesis in regard to interior ...I would say they are different..but one is really not better. But that is my opinion

There is a night and day difference in quality, style, workmanship, fit and finish between the two. I really think you should park a G1 and a G2 next to each other and spend some time going back and forth between them. In fact - other than the recline feature of your Eq - I'd even say the G2's interior eclipses it as well.

As for the Equus...I like the interior...excluding a few things that feel like they are from a much cheaper car

Exactly. Between that and the ripped off grille, that is what is largely responsible for the Eq being such a poor performer in new sales as well as in depreciation. The G2 fixes this problem - and translates up into the G90 as well.

Though sadly...there are no different wood options available in the Equus. Something that even a 3 series has

This is not something that is of high importance to a budget-conscious buyer of that class of car. Again - that is Hyundai's target with these cars. Not the blank-check crowd.

I actually like the garage parking

To what end? If you can afford a 100k+ car you damn sure ought to be able to afford a house with a properly sized garage. This is a useless, time-wasting (very slow) feature that I fully expect to disappear from the 7 within 3 years and not even make it to the 5. Merc will probably keep it just because gaudy & audacious is in the nature of the marque - however I suspect it will be relegated to only the S after 3 to 4 years.

But..I am a fan of technology

So am I. FUNCTIONAL and PRACTICAL tech. Parking assist is. Spraying shit into the air, garage in/out and waving your hands in the air are not.

The Chrysler 300 comes to mind

So does it's horrible transmission and electronics history. To be honest - the only positive thing that came out of the merger for the first generation of that car was the suspension which was stolen from the E300. Everything else that Merc contributed to that merger and specifically that car has bitten it and it's owners squarely in the ass over time. Is it a sharp looking car and has it been since the 1st gen? Absolutely. But it has also been a nightmare since day 1, and it is the only series of cars that can actually give Caddy a run for it's money with regards to plummeting depreciation.

Glad you have seen the video...then you can really see the video and differences in finishes and feature set

Other than the electronic dash and the lane-changing & parking features - I see less differences and more similarities in the finish - especially vs. the G90 that you want to so badly line it up against. One huge exception to that however is the ridiculous vent layout and the gaudy looking wood panel across the entire width of the dash. Back to being detracting factors. Too bad, too - the E was well on it's way to shaking off the gaudy stigma from before and that the S has always had. Oh well.

If you back out the trucks and Suv's...Ford would not even be close
and in both of those categories

You're gonna want to go back and look at the history of the numbers with the trucks and SUVs excluded before you stick to that comment.

if they get the lane changing "thing" in 2019 or 2020...is that innovative? By then there will be something else that has advanced..I assure you if a luxury brand wants name recognition at this point I am not sure they get it by being 2-4 late to the party on features

Again - "innovative" and cutting edge is not the target market for the Genesis buyer. It never has been. "Close enough" has been in most respects. That being said - you do realize the G2 was the first car that had the rear cross-traffic system and had it linked to AEB vs. any of the same class Germans, right? Hyundai will pick and choose the battles it decides to be "innovative" in. Again - the blank-check crowd is not Hyundai's target market with ANY of the Genesis vehicles.

ofcourse..as you say it can be "good enough"...but that just means highly discounted

Myself and many others around the globe are just fine with that.

I am not hating on Cadillac recently. Their cars have a distinctive " family" look and they seem to have some entries that are seriously well reviewed...specifically their halo V series cars. Their is a LOT of technology there. As a brand I would say they are sniffing at the germans butts..lol

I wouldn't go there... not by a long shot. They aren't even close to comparing with the Germans - I've already posted the depreciation of the CTSVsport - and similar %s stretch across the entire product line. Does it look good - absolutely. Probably one of the sharpest looking cars on the planet, at the moment. But just like most women who have "the look" - they are either a mess on the innards, or they don't stay that way for long. That combined with the GM stigma sinks Caddy. Every single time.

No doubt if that car comes to the market it will be chock full of technology maybe even including the "sprayers" you like so much

And I will be one less customer they will have as a result. Still.

Again...all the reviews I have seen have stated that Cadillac is in the game ..especially in high performance

They might be in the game on day 1... but again - by year 2 they are pretty much out. This will be yet another car for the blank-check writing crowd who turns his stable every 12 to 24 months. Nothing more.

Think about it..who would have thought a company that made the "land yacht" is now in the game and drives at, or near, the germans

I'm going to let you think about your having made that statement for a moment... and I am even going to give you a chance to take that one back at no penalty this time. But if you don't - consider it fair game for the next round.

Dont think for a minute that the market is going to pay the same price for a competing Cadillac as they do for a Merc/BMW

So then by your logic it isn't a same-class car and therefore cannot/does not compete. Which is it? You cannot have it both ways.

Actually if you look at the CTS line...its about the same resale at the Genesis

Not even close. 2015 AWD Ultimate 53000msrp has a 26% depreciation today at 39400 - numbers which I posted in my previous reply. An equally equipped CTS stickered at just shy of 62000 and has a resale of 41300 today. Yeah - it is worth more cash... but it also cost 9k more to get into on the front end - and that gives it a 33% depreciation rate - again rivaling that of the still higher priced and higher depreciating E class moreso than the G2.

Again..if resale if your motivator...there are probably better cars than either in this same price range

Again - I buy cars to own them and to drive them. Drive the shit out of them in fact - preferably until the wheels fall off. In fact - other than my Azera and my last 7 - I haven't owned a single other car that I haven't flipped 100k on. Resale is not my motivator when I buy a car. Driving it is. I get pretty much every last penny out of my vehicular investments - because I drive so much.

People who buy cars with selling it later as the driving factor behind the purchase are actually the people who truly belong in leases instead... because they will never get what they want or what they have out of ANY car they ever sell or trade - other than exotics and vintage collectibles. They will instead shell out more and more money each time and they will get less and less in return. For them - leasing is the best option financially and for keeping pace with their car-changing frequency.

That being said - as resale seems to also be YOUR motivating factor in all your arguments - I am going to strongly you urge you to take the Caddies off your short and long list... because you are going to be even more disappointed with those results than you would be with the G2, Eq, E or S.

I think Cadillac is trying to create a broad range of products with the technology of the Gemans to compete with them

Cadillac has actually been making an extremely WIDE range of products... too wide, actually, and it will cost them dearly as not only do they not compete with any of the Germans past year 1 at worst or year 2 at best, but also eclipses just about every other car on the market for depreciation. They are trying to stoke too many fires and not doing a good enough job at any of them since they still cannot shake the GM stigma despite the now decade-old re-invention.

So..to your point..maybe Cadillac is the car to buy.if you want all the technology and performance at a price lower than the germans

As a new car? Absolutely not. The massively outpacing depreciation cans that thought. As a 2 or 3 year old car - maybe. But only if you are looking to dump it in another 2 to 3 years - otherwise you run into the same maintenance and repair nightmares and expenses you get with the Germans. With all those factors in mind - the one to buy is in fact the Genesis.

 

[srobak]

I think I'm the luckiest Genny owner on the forum --

2nd luckiest

1. I bought the car for it's truly substantive qualities and features (engine, xmsn, brakes, fit & finish, etc)
2. I wasn't remotely concerned about "status" and gadgets.

I bought it for bang-for-buck vs. other options in the same class at far more money. I knwo that "hyundai" doesn't equal status - but I bought it for me, not anybody else, so F them & their status autos if they don't like it. I enjoy the car and that's all that counts.

I like the fact that most of the gadgets are actually usable and functional.... they serve a true & genuine purpose for the most part... and weren't just put there for the sake of doing so.

3. And I most certainly was not concerned about Audi's or German cars, in general, in making my purchase. Although, I will admit to looking at Mercedes E-Class and didn't like the ergonomics.

Have you looked at a 5 or 7 series BMW? If you like & enjoy the G2 then I have a hunch you will like those as well, nevermind the price tag. Like I mentioned before I noticed and felt a lot of the 5 influence in the G2, and the links I posted for you earlier illustrate a lot of similarity to the 7. It's great to be able to get the bargains we can on the G2 and the G90 on cars that stack up against those.

4. And, I have had zero defects in 15 months now - I'm not counting those little pesky tire/taillight "recalls" back in the day.

Mine had tires & lights done before I bought it. I've had the roof done and the head unit replaced (XM kept losing subscription). I knew that it was a 1st year on a fresh design going in - and I accepted there might be some growing pains with it, as I had read about them here. But - I was ok with it, the dealership took good care of me, and all is well. Small price to pay in inconvenience for the bang & buck I am getting.

Couldn't be happier with my G2 and look very forward to my G90.

 

[PMCErnie]

"Mr. Gorbachev, please shut down this thread!"

 

[ksoze]

"Mr. Gorbachev, please shut down this thread!"

It was quite for almost 4 days and slowly slipping away, until you resurrected it

 

[srobak]

It was quite for almost 4 days and slowly slipping away, until you resurrected it

Yeup. And to anyone else who has a problem with the thread - you are free to scroll by without reading it.