6/30 wall street journal artice

[NYCGPS]

Thanks everyone for your input. NYCGPS's Dad is who concerns me (altough not enough not to buy the car as I intend to) but that he would be contemptuous and closed minded prior to thinking it through. His Dad is the type of person who can afford the car and can afford the car used. I'm hoping that when I sell the car, it will have the value add of being a Geneis vs. being another Hyundai.

Well, he has been a "Toyota fan" for decades. I won't blame him, it's hard to change a person's mind, especially when that person is "old".

It took me 4 years to get him to believe that Mazda's car are actually "ok"

So it can take me another 4-5 yrs b4 I can get him to "believe" that Hyundai is actually not the pos that he used to know.

Confucius say: Time heals all wounds.

Even Fiat is coming back into the US market, because many potential buyers are too young to know anything about Fiat's crappy cars before the left the US market years ago.

FIAT is coming back strong. they made so much money for the past few decades and now they are testing waters with their FIAT 500. It's actually a pretty cool car. I mean I never gonna get one cuz it doesn't fit my needs. but It's not a bad car for city driving, more bang for buck than that garbage stupid ... I mean "SMART" car.

 

[RedJet20]

We're in MY 4 of the Genesis, and MY 1 of the Equus. At this point I think if someone is concerned about the badge, it's their problem and not Hyundai's.

Exactly. Only the uninformed remain skeptical of Hyundai. Folks need to jump on the band wagon now, while they can still be on the cutting edge of the next great thing. Times they are a changing....

 

[mikec]

I know someone that sounded very like NYCGPS's father when it came to anything Japanese. He was a Lincoln guy through and through... me and his stepson convinced him to look at the Lexus LS400 - it had been on sale in the US for maybe a year at that point. He just couldn't believe the Japanese could ever make a nice/good car... but he listened to us and went to a Lexus dealer. And was stunned. We also suggested he look at the then-brand-new Miata. That became his favorite car - "I love that little car" I remember him saying... the Lincoln was sold (private sale, not trade in) within a month of buying the LS400 & Miata; the Lexus became his wife's car. I ended up "delivering" the Miata for him; he couldn't drive a stick-shift at the time! He never stepped into a Lincoln dealer ever again from what I understand.

So some sticks-in-the-mud can change. Good luck with your dad.

mike c.

 

[NYCGPS]

I know someone that sounded very like NYCGPS's father when it came to anything Japanese. He was a Lincoln guy through and through... me and his stepson convinced him to look at the Lexus LS400 - it had been on sale in the US for maybe a year at that point. He just couldn't believe the Japanese could ever make a nice/good car... but he listened to us and went to a Lexus dealer. And was stunned. We also suggested he look at the then-brand-new Miata. That became his favorite car - "I love that little car" I remember him saying... the Lincoln was sold (private sale, not trade in) within a month of buying the LS400 & Miata; the Lexus became his wife's car. I ended up "delivering" the Miata for him; he couldn't drive a stick-shift at the time! He never stepped into a Lincoln dealer ever again from what I understand.

So some sticks-in-the-mud can change. Good luck with your dad.

mike c.

haha, I got ya.

Just like how I convince my dad 4-5 yrs ago, cuz his pos old Nissan broke. he was thinking about getting a Toyota Sienna, but then I told him he doesn't need a car that sits 7 when we only have like 5 people ... so I told him to go look at CX-7. At first he was like hell no it's a Mazda it's garbage and only morons like me would like Mazda cars(dude I am ur son, if I'm moron, what are you? lol). but I have been driving RX-8 (now I have RX-7 too) and I think they're alright, at least it's more agile and fun to drive than any freaking Toyota.

after he test drove the CX-7, he said this is actually not bad, the higher position sitting, fit and finish, and the moment when the turbo kick in (around 3K rpm) he signed the papers and drove it away. Still happy about the car now

Speaking about the Miata, if your friend's stepfather likes the current Miata. Wait about a year or 2 from now, it will be a 1.0 Turbo with higher hp, they're trying to see if they can get Sky-Activ to work in it, but the most important thing is they will cut the weight of the car by at least 700 lbs. Which will make it weight less than 2000 lbs. The Miata now weights like a pig it's nowhere as fun(it's still fun) to drive as the original Miata. Just sayin'

 

[Mark_888]

I think that what a lot of people don't realize is that all cars are a lot more reliable now than 20-30 years ago. Prior to electronic ignition and fuel injection, computer controlled engines, platinum spark plugs, etc, engines in particular where much less reliable than today, and needed constant tune-ups, etc. In the "old days" it was rare that even a fairly new car would start on first try. Engine lubricants have improved dramatically also.

There is also a lot more sharing of technology and manufacturing these days. For example, the pre-2012 Genesis used transmissions from ZF (also used by BMW) or Aisin (50% owned by Toyota and used in Lexus and many other cars). Even when stuff is made in-house, a lot of the subcomponents are out-sourced to companies that supply those parts to the entire industry.

Also, even if manufacturing stays in-house, design may be outsourced to firms that specialize in a particular technology and who have a very high level of expertise that is shared across the entire industry. Hybrid technology is one example of this, where auto-makers are sharing technology and sometimes even manufacturing of hybrid engine components.

All of this makes it much easier for an automobile company with a questionable past, to be making quite good cars today.

 

[NYCGPS]

I think that what a lot of people don't realize is that all cars are a lot more reliable now than 20-30 years ago. Prior to electronic ignition and fuel injection, computer controlled engines, platinum spark plugs, etc, engines in particular where much less reliable than today, and needed constant tune-ups, etc. In the "old days" it was rare that even a fairly new car would start on first try. Engine lubricants have improved dramatically also.

There is also a lot more sharing of technology and manufacturing these days. For example, the pre-2012 Genesis used transmissions from ZF (also used by BMW) or Aisin (50% owned by Toyota and used in Lexus and many other cars). Even when stuff is made in-house, a lot of the subcomponents are out-sourced to companies that supply those parts to the entire industry.

Also, even if manufacturing stays in-house, design may be outsourced to firms that specialize in a particular technology and who have a very high level of expertise that is shared across the entire industry. Hybrid technology is one example of this, where auto-makers are sharing technology and sometimes even manufacturing of hybrid engine components.

All of this makes it much easier for an automobile company with a questionable past, to be making quite good cars today.

agreed

The problem is that -------- the general public does not know these "industry thing" exist. They just "assume" that "Oh, its a Toyota's parts is more durable cuz it's Toyota" and if you show them a Hyundai part they will say "It's Hyundai, it's crap, go away"

when both parts are made by the same manufacture with the same quality, just different "Box"

MAF sensor is one example, I dunno what MAF sensor Genesis or Hyundai use, but most if not all Japanese cars use the same kind of MAF Sensor made by Nippon Denso.

 

[JckOfSpds]

I can vouch for all three of those statements.

IMO, at least Hyundai have less problems than "the OMG so cool" Audi.

People think Audi/VW is better because it's "German cars"

but car enthusiasm knows Audi/VW makes garbage, their car looks cool I admit, and the fit and finish is 2nd to none, but unless you have really deep pockets, their mechanical and electrical problems will eat you alive. Changing a Timing belt on A8L from 2004 cost 2.2K at Audi dealership. Even if you buy their Extended warranty, which covers almost everything except some wear items. it still cost you 85 bux PER VISIT. and the warranty itself cost about 2.5-4K depends on which car.

Likewise I can vouch for these facts first hand - used to drive a Audi S4. Great fit and finish, but man you so do not want to own that car once it comes off of warranty...I remember having a slight problem with one digit on my digital dashboard display and it was going to cost $900 to fix it. Just nuts.

 

[Mark_888]

Likewise I can vouch for these facts first hand - used to drive a Audi S4. Great fit and finish, but man you so do not want to own that car once it comes off of warranty...I remember having a slight problem with one digit on my digital dashboard display and it was going to cost $900 to fix it. Just nuts.

I am not sure that Hyundai is any different in that regard. Genesis owners who have had problems with their instrument cluster have reported that the entire cluster had to be replaced (under warranty so far).

I believe that the Hyundai warranty for "electronics” (such as audio systems) is only 36 months/36K miles. A fair number of Genesis owners have had problems with the Lexicon systems, and dealers had to replace the entire unit at would have been a $3,000 cost if not under warranty. Although I don't usually recommend extended warranties, Tech Package owners may want one if they plan to keep the car more than 3 years

 

[NYCGPS]

Mark is right, Hyundai's "5yrs New Vehicle warranty" is not a bumper to bumper warranty as most people think it is

10-YEAR/100,000-MILE POWERTRAIN PROTECTION

Covers repair or replacement of powertrain components (i.e., selected engine and transmission/transaxle components), originally manufactured or installed by Hyundai that are defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance. Coverage applies to original owner only, effective with 2004 model year and newer model year vehicles. On 1999-2003 model years, coverage applies to original owner and immediate family members (i.e., wife, husband, daughter, son, stepdaughter, stepson).
Second and/or subsequent owners have powertrain components coverage under the 5-Year/60,000-Mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Excludes coverage for vehicles in commercial use (e.g. taxi, route delivery, delivery service, rental, etc.).

5-YEAR/60,000-MILE NEW VEHICLE LIMITED WARRANTY

Covers repair or replacement of any component manufactured or originally installed by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

The following components are covered for time and mileage limits indicated:
• Radio and audio systems (i.e., radio, compact disc player, DVD player, navigation system, and Bluetooth®): 3 years/36,000 miles
• Paint: 3 years/36,000 miles
• Battery: 3 years/unlimited miles (100% covered 2 years/unlimited miles; after 2 years and within 3 years, 25% cost of battery and 100% labor cost covered)
• Air conditioner refrigerant charge: 1 year/unlimited miles
• Adjustments: 1 year/12,000 miles
• Wear items: 1 year/12,000 miles (e.g., belts, brake pads and linings, clutch linings, filters, wiper blades, bulbs, fuses)


7-YEAR/UNLIMITED MILE ANTI-PERFORATION WARRANTY

Covers 7 years/unlimited miles starting with 2005 model year (previously 5 years/100,000 miles for 2004 and prior model years).

Covers perforation (rust hole through the body panel from inside to outside) corrosion of original Hyundai body sheet metal due to defects in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.
Excludes surface corrosion.
5-YEAR/UNLIMITED MILE 24-HOUR ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE

Covers vehicle, regardless if current owner is original or subsequent owner.

Includes the following roadside amenities:

• Towing for inoperable disablements, including accidents
• Battery jump starts
• Changing flat tire
• Lock-out assistance
• Out of gas assistance
• Trip interruption

Disclaimer: Hyundai Motor America reserves the right to limit services or reimbursement to any owner or driver when, in Hyundai Motor America's judgment, the Claims are excessive in nature, frequency, or type of occurrence.

Hyundai Roadside Assistance Services are provided through Cross Country Motor Club, Inc., Medford, MA 02155, except in Alaska, California, Hawaii, Oregon, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, where services are provided through Cross Country Motor Club of California, Inc., Medford, MA 02155.

Hyundai Motor America makes no guarantee or warranty regarding Cross Country Motor Club, Inc.'s or Cross Country Motor Club of California, Inc.'s service and is not liable for the actions of its employees or subcontractors.

Exclusions: Roadside Assistance is NOT A WARRANTY. For a description of the vehicle warranty covering your Hyundai, see the Hyundai New Vehicle Limited Warranty section of the Owner's Handbook. Roadside Assistance is a limited service, provided to help minimize any unforeseen vehicle operation inconvenience.

The Hyundai Roadside Assistance Program does not include reimbursement for any costs/charges for repairs, parts, labor, property loss, or any other expense incurred as a result of accident/collision, vehicle abuse, racing, vandalism, or other items not covered by the Hyundai New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Also excluded are services for snow tires, repair to studs, mounting or demounting of snow chains, and any fines, fees, or taxes associated with impound towing as a result of any actual or alleged violation of any law or regulation.
Off-roading is not covered. To receive service, the vehicle must be accessible from a publicly maintained road.
12-MONTH/12,000-MILE REPLACEMENT PARTS AND ACCESSORIES LIMITED WARRANTY

Covers repair or replacement of any Hyundai Genuine Replacement Parts or Accessories supplied by Hyundai that is defective in material or factory workmanship, under normal use and maintenance.

Genuine Hyundai Parts or Accessories supplied by Hyundai and purchased from an authorized Hyundai Dealer, but not installed by an authorized Hyundai Dealer, are covered for 12 months/unlimited miles.

Accessories installed on a vehicle at the time of or prior to the vehicle's date of first use are covered under the 5-Year/60,000-Mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Accessories installed after the vehicle's date of first use are covered for 12 months/12,000 miles.
8-YEAR/80,000-MILE FEDERAL EMISSION DEFECT & PERFORMANCE WARRANTY

Covers repair or replacement of the following original Hyundai major emissions control components that cause the vehicle to fail to conform to an applicable EPA-approved inspection/maintenance program:

• Catalytic Converter
• Engine Control Module
• Onboard Emissions Diagnostic Device (OBD-II)
Other EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) emissions warranty parts are covered under the 5-Year/60,000-Mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
7-YEAR/70,000-MILE CALIFORNIA EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEMS WARRANTY

Applies to vehicles manufactured to California specifications, which are distributed by Hyundai Motor America and registered in the states of California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode Island or Vermont.

Covers repair or replacement of specific original Hyundai emissions components (specific covered emissions components vary by model).

California Emission Control Systems Warranty is in addition to Federal Emission Defect & Performance Warranty.
Other California Emission Control Systems Warranty emission warranty parts are covered under the 5-Year/60,000-Mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

 

[JckOfSpds]

Well, he has been a "Toyota fan" for decades. I won't blame him, it's hard to change a person's mind, especially when that person is "old".

It took me 4 years to get him to believe that Mazda's car are actually "ok"

So it can take me another 4-5 yrs b4 I can get him to "believe" that Hyundai is actually not the pos that he used to know.



FIAT is coming back strong. they made so much money for the past few decades and now they are testing waters with their FIAT 500. It's actually a pretty cool car. I mean I never gonna get one cuz it doesn't fit my needs. but It's not a bad car for city driving, more bang for buck than that garbage stupid ... I mean "SMART" car.

Someone at my office rolled up in a Fiat 500 just the other day. It was surreal seeing one in the parking lot (for us old folks who remember Fiats running around here last back in the '70s).

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[JckOfSpds]

I am not sure that Hyundai is any different in that regard. Genesis owners who have had problems with their instrument cluster have reported that the entire cluster had to be replaced (under warranty so far).

I believe that the Hyundai warranty for "electronics” (such as audio systems) is only 36 months/36K miles. A fair number of Genesis owners have had problems with the Lexicon systems, and dealers had to replace the entire unit at would have been a $3,000 cost if not under warranty. Although I don't usually recommend extended warranties, Tech Package owners may want one if they plan to keep the car more than 3 years

Oh yeah...given the cost of the extended warranty, its definitely worth getting if you plan on keeping the car for more than three years if you get the Tech Package with the Genesis.

 

[NYCGPS]

Someone at my office rolled up in a Fiat 500 just the other day. It was surreal seeing one in the parking lot (for us old folks who remember Fiats running around here last back in the '70s).

From time to time I see some FIAT running around in NYC. it's old obviously, lots of ppl call them crap, but at least it still works

I think FIAT 500 will sell.

Oh yeah...given the cost of the extended warranty, its definitely worth getting if you plan on keeping the car for more than three years if you get the Tech Package with the Genesis.

Do you know how much an "Extended" warranty cost? I know it's different for each dealership cuz of different markups, just wanna get an idea.

 

[acoga]

Can anyone seriously deny that for the past 30+ years GM has mainly produced crap?

No. Just like Hyundai produced crap up until about 6 years ago or so. GM car quality has gone up, and Hyundai quality has skyrocketed. But it takes a very long time to change "conventional wisdom".

I think that was well before the 80's. By the 80's, they were considered quite good and reliable cars.

Yeah, actually I was thinking of nearly exactly 1980. That's when I remember people really starting to give Honda respect, and kind of marveling at how good those little cars were. At that time you still saw a lot of Honda Civics that had purchased in the 70s that looked like novelty cars: they were small cars and had tiny wheels even for that era.

Thanks everyone for your input. NYCGPS's Dad is who concerns me (altough not enough not to buy the car as I intend to) but that he would be contemptuous and closed minded prior to thinking it through. His Dad is the type of person who can afford the car and can afford the car used. I'm hoping that when I sell the car, it will have the value add of being a Genesis vs. being another Hyundai.

Time is on our side. I remember having a conversation with a fellow who'd earned his degree from a top ranked engineering school back in the early 60s; I can't remember if it was MIT or Stanford. In any case, he talked about how easy it was to get in and how the school had a good reptuation but not the "OMG walk on water" rep it has now. As the school's reputation grew and it had to become more selective, only admitting the most brilliant students, his degree got more and more impressive as the years rolled on.

I truly believe that if you hang onto your Genesis for a while, when it comes time to sell, attitudes like NYCGPS's Dad's are going to be much less common.

 

[Mark_888]

Time is on our side. I remember having a conversation with a fellow who'd earned his degree from a top ranked engineering school back in the early 60s; I can't remember if it was MIT or Stanford. In any case, he talked about how easy it was to get in and how the school had a good reptuation but not the "OMG walk on water" rep it has now. As the school's reputation grew and it had to become more selective, only admitting the most brilliant students, his degree got more and more impressive as the years rolled on.

I think that is true of a lot of colleges. I couldn't get admitted now to the college I graduated from years ago.

I truly believe that if you hang onto your Genesis for a while, when it comes time to sell, attitudes like NYCGPS's Dad's are going to be much less common.

Yeah, eventually all the geezers who remember the initial Hyundai launch in the US will just die off. Maybe even Yugo can make a return to the US some day?

 

[NYCGPS]

hey hey! What sup with the hate !!!! hahaha

There are many ppl like that around, my dad is just one example. At least i think i can convince him one day.

 

[Mark_888]

hey hey! What sup with the hate !!!! hahaha

There are many ppl like that around, my dad is just one example. At least i think i can convince him one day.

No hate. Let's just say that I am old enough to know all about Yugo, etc, and maybe older than your father.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Hyundai sets another US sales record, led by Elantra and Sonata.
Genesis sales also grew for the 24th consecutive month, 3100 for June.
(No breakdown between sedan and coupe.)

The Horse came in at 222, on pace for the targeted 2500 for the year.

 

[NYCGPS]

that's nice to hear ! Hyundai is really coming back strong.

 

[Slim]

I don't care what anyone else thinks. I love the car. It's a pleasure to drive and worth a lot more than its retail. When it's time I'll buy another one. And probably find the car is an improvement on this one. Thank's Hyundai.

 

[Slider]

Perceptions change- 30 years ago the mere thought of driving a JAP car- especially WWII generation- now they drive Toyota's, Nissan & Mazda.

Intelligence trumps ignorance. Those worrying about perceptions has the latter.

Can anyone seriously deny that for the past 30+ years GM has mainly produced crap?

This is spot on.

I remember old Datsun before they became Nissan, I remember people saying they'd never drive some rice-burning Honda, and dismissed Toyota entirely. Today, those same people are among a contingent that probably wouldn't drive a GM product at all and are as equally but oppositely oriented in their position.

I've had a VW, Mazda, Dodge, Chevy, Jeep, Buick and now a Hyundai.

And I love turning heads and changing that perception little by little.

I don't worry about keeping up with the Joneses. If that were the case, I'd have settled (and I use that term quite deliberately) for something else. And probably regretted not getting both QUALITY and VALUE (they're not mutually exclusive terms) at the expense of brand cachet and being another BMW, Lexus or Infiniti driving dipshit here in Houston. Just my two cents.