Advice On Tint

[thompithak3182]

My past 2 cars (including my Genesis which I just purchased last week and got tinted 2 days ago) have always been tinted with Llumar film. Looks great and still look as good after 5 years as the day I got it. They also have a lifetime warranty.

I got 30% on my front and back and I have a black on black. Looks awesome!

hey lumberg, did you put the ceramic llumar tint on it or the regular dyed tint? I was just wondering because the place that im about to go to offers both ceramic and the regular kind, I was wanting to do the ceramic and i dont know if it will last longer than the regular dyed kind. the warrenty is with the company or the llumar?

 

[Mark_888]

hey lumberg, did you put the ceramic llumar tint on it or the regular dyed tint? I was just wondering because the place that im about to go to offers both ceramic and the regular kind, I was wanting to do the ceramic and i dont know if it will last longer than the regular dyed kind. the warrenty is with the company or the llumar?

Dyed tint film (and to a lesser degree carbon) can fade over time, although they are better than the used to be. Ceramic tint film does not fade and is made of nano-sized particles inside the film, somewhat like metallic films. Ceramic and metallic are superior to dyed or carbon films at reflecting heat (for same VLT), but metallic films can block radio/cellphone, etc signals. There are some ceramic or metallic films that also have a dye or carbon in them, which make them a hybrid film.

That is why ceramic tint film is usually the best choice for most cars, although they cost more than most other types. But some people prefer the smoky look, which is usually not ceramic, and which may be OK in climates where the sunlight is not intense.

 

[Mark_888]

What is anyone's opinion about simply not tinting the back window at all, since I've got the screen, as many of us do. It's not about saving money (I plan on having the sides done) or preserving the AM radio antenna, etc.. Just wondering if it's even necessary. (Colorado--lots of sun, high altitude.) Will the screen block out most of the heat anyway?

You should definitely tint the rear window with a ceramic film.

 

[ndmiller]

New '14 tinted with 3M 35% as per GA law and plenty dark with great heat reflection. It's the ceramic and/or metal in the film that reflects the heat and this film seems to do a good job in the southern sun. Huber is better but 2X the price and no one in Atlanta close by seemed to carry/install it.

Noah

 

[Mark_888]

Huber is better but 2X the price and no one in Atlanta close by seemed to carry/install it.

Huper Optik is really a tint film designed for windows on residential and commercial buildings, and is relatively thick compared to other films, and therefor difficult to install on even slightly curved surfaces such as rear windows. Even if you find an installer that has it, they may not want to install it on cars (tinting buildings is a big business).

 

[Lumberg]

My past 2 cars (including my Genesis which I just purchased last week and got tinted 2 days ago) have always been tinted with Llumar film. Looks great and still look as good after 5 years as the day I got it. They also have a lifetime warranty.

I got 30% on my front and back and I have a black on black. Looks awesome!

hey lumberg, did you put the ceramic llumar tint on it or the regular dyed tint? I was just wondering because the place that im about to go to offers both ceramic and the regular kind, I was wanting to do the ceramic and i dont know if it will last longer than the regular dyed kind. the warrenty is with the company or the llumar?

Not quite sure. The link below is where I get mine done outside of the Philly area and it says something about thickness of the film towards the bottom. All I know is that I had them do my old car 5 years ago and the tint still looks as good as the day I got it.

http://www.shadesofgraytint.com/tinting.html

 

[richardfitzwell]

I would highly recommend the suntek carbon 25, the guy I use has now done four cars for me and two others for friends... Had the car since August, got it tinted two weeks later and I'm loving it

Results speak for themselves...

 

[richardfitzwell]

forgot to mention there is also suntek carbon 70 on the front windshield

 

[Mark_888]

I would highly recommend the suntek carbon 25, the guy I use has now done four cars for me and two others for friends... Had the car since August, got it tinted two weeks later and I'm loving it

Results speak for themselves...

Carbon films look great and are great for privacy, but not quite up to the heat rejection standards of a ceramic if one lives in a really sunny climate. But it is certainly OK for most locations.

 

[richardfitzwell]

Carbon films look great and are great for privacy, but not quite up to the heat rejection standards of a ceramic if one lives in a really sunny climate. But it is certainly OK for most locations.

Im in Texas... I'll keep you posted this summer but its already been 90+ on a few occasions this year and my car compared to every other car I ride in around here is night and day difference, your description sounds like you're talking about dyed tint vs ceramic

The gentleman at the tint shop told me ceramics retain a lot of heat within the film itself (not a bad thing nor does it necessarily affect the inside of the car, they just do) and he personally preferred the carbon on his own cars (taking price into consideration), but either one is a hell of a lot better than stock in the sun hahaha... I wouldn't exactly say the difference is tremendous between the two, we're talking inches not feet and at the end of the day i had an extra $100-ish to spend elsewhere, to each his own, can't exactly go wrong either way.... I would never suggest someone with a fully tinted vehicle strip off carbon and get a ceramic job or visa versa, I'm just putting it out there for the people with untinted cars, I guarantee that you won't be upset going carbon

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[Mark_888]

Im in Texas... I'll keep you posted this summer but its already been 90+ on a few occasions this year and my car compared to every other car I ride in around here is night and day difference, your description sounds like you're talking about dyed tint vs ceramic

The gentleman at the tint shop told me ceramics retain a lot of heat within the film itself (not a bad thing nor does it necessarily affect the inside of the car, they just do) and he personally preferred the carbon on his own cars, but either one is a hell of a lot better than stock in the sun hahaha... I wouldn't exactly say the difference is tremendous between the two, we're talking inches not feet and at the end of the day i had an extra $100-ish to spend elsewhere, to each his own, can't exactly go wrong either way.... I would never suggest someone with a fully tinted vehicle strip off carbon and get a ceramic job or visa versa, I'm just putting it out there for the people with untinted cars, I guarantee that you won't be upset going carbon

I will agree that carbon looks great, but for a given VLT% ceramic reflects more harmful rays of the sun. So I think that your tint shop is dead wrong about that. Metallic is as good (or better than) ceramic in reflecting harmful rays of the sun, but it can adversely affect electronic gadgets that rely on radio waves, etc.

The big advantage of carbon over dyed films is that carbon is less susceptible to fading than dyes, But just looking at Carbon from the outside of a car on a sunny day, it is not as reflective as ceramic and actually absorbs much of the sun's rays. There are some films that are carbon/ceramic hybrids.

 

[richardfitzwell]

I will agree that carbon looks great, but for a given VLT% ceramic reflects more harmful rays of the sun. So I think that your tint shop is dead wrong about that. Metallic is as good (or better than) ceramic in reflecting harmful rays of the sun, but it can adversely affect electronic gadgets that rely on radio waves, etc.

The big advantage of carbon over dyed films is that carbon is less susceptible to fading than dyes, But just looking at Carbon from the outside of a car on a sunny day, it is not as reflective as ceramic and actually absorbs much of the sun's rays. There are some films that are carbon/ceramic hybrids.

I think we're talking about two different things, I'm not questioning that ceramic does a better job at reflecting rays from the inside of the car. Allow me to restate with a somewhat absurd analogy that I think will do a better job of illustrating what the tint shop guy is talking about:

Two glass boxes (cars) sitting next to one another outside with a plant (car interior/you) inside each of them, one layered in ceramic, one layered in carbon, your point (which I am not disagreeing with as it is true) suggests that the plant (car interior/you) would observe less energy from the sun behind the ceramic glass pane, and the ambient temperature inside that box (car) would be slightly lower than that of the carbon layered box, my tint shop's suggestion is that if you were to measure the exterior surface temperature of the box itself it would be ever so slightly higher than that of the carbon layered box... From what I took away from the discussion with him, that is tint shop guy's only point and as I said before it is NOT a bad thing it is just what I was told by someone who does this for a living so I thought I would share for the sake of discussion as this is a forum.

I'm not disagreeing with you nor do I think that guy was just flat wrong, tell me if you think so

 

[richardfitzwell]

I'm also not taking ownership of this point by any means, I'm merely the messenger reiterating what I was told


But I will gladly take ownership of the claim that tinting the front windshield vs not tinting it makes a MASSIVE difference regardless of ceramic/carbon in sunny climates I.E. Texas when your car is in the parking lot at work all day

 

[Mark_888]

I think we're talking about two different things, I'm not questioning that ceramic does a better job at reflecting rays from the inside of the car. Allow me to restate with a somewhat absurd analogy that I think will do a better job of illustrating what the tint shop guy is talking about:

Two glass boxes (cars) sitting next to one another outside with a plant (car interior/you) inside each of them, one layered in ceramic, one layered in carbon, your point (which I am not disagreeing with as it is true) suggests that the plant (car interior/you) would observe less energy from the sun behind the ceramic glass pane, and the ambient temperature inside that box (car) would be slightly lower than that of the carbon layered box, my tint shop's suggestion is that if you were to measure the exterior surface temperature of the box itself it would be ever so slightly higher than that of the carbon layered box... From what I took away from the discussion with him, that is tint shop guy's only point and as I said before it is NOT a bad thing it is just what I was told by someone who does this for a living so I thought I would share for the sake of discussion as this is a forum.

I'm not disagreeing with you nor do I think that guy was just flat wrong, tell me if you think so

Ceramic and metallic have tiny (nano) particles in the film that reflect solar radiation, whereas a carbon or dyed film just makes the film darker. It is sort of like having mirrored sunglasses vs just tinted sunglasses. There are specs published for virtually every tint film that rates the following important factors (and a few others not so important):

• VLT % - the amount of visible light transmission of a tint film, or how dark it looks from the inside of the car looking out. When comparing two films in an even-handed and fair manner, you should compare films with the same VLT% (or as close as possible).
• Total Solar Energy Rejection (TESR) % - This determines what percent of the sun's energy is rejected, and is the main number used to compare tint films in terms of effectiveness.
• UV Rejection % - Also important, but most films have 99% rejection, so usually not much difference.

Here are specs of Formula One Pinnacle 30 (ceramic):

• VLT - 33%
  [*]TSER - 57%
• UV Rejection - 99.5%

http://www.formulaone.com/pdf/FormulaOneSpecSheet.pdf

Here are the specs of Suntek Carbon 35 (which is the closest VLT to a Formula One Pinnacle that I could find):

• VLT - 35%
• TSER - 42%
• UV Rejection - 99%

http://www.suntekfilms.com/files/ind_auto_Carbon.pdf

Don't be mislead by one film being a "30" and the other one a "35" since it is the VLT that counts when comparing two films, and 33% vs 35% is the closest I could find between these two brands. Pinnacle does not make a 25 VLT film.

As you can see, the Pinnacle ceramic film blows away the Suntek Carbon film in the critical TSER rating, even though the Pinnacle is only 2% darker.

To be honest, I should not have to do all this research just to prove a point that everyone who knows anything about tint film should already know. But I feel that other members of this forum thinking about tint film should understand the facts, and not what some sales guy at shop you visited claims.

 

[Mark_888]

But I will gladly take ownership of the claim that tinting the front windshield vs not tinting it makes a MASSIVE difference regardless of ceramic/carbon in sunny climates I.E. Texas when your car is in the parking lot at work all day

I can agree with that, which is why I use a folding windshield reflector on my dash in those situation, which blows away everything else with regard to Total Solar Energy Rejection.

 

[thompithak3182]

well, thanks for clearing the air about the tint. im going with the ceramic film and even though i probably dont need the front windshield tint, im still going to do that anyways just for the heat rejection and all that good science stuff yall talkin bout here.

 

[richardfitzwell]

End of the day inches not feet, the thread is "advice on tint" I'm not interested in making a decision for anyone else, I made mine and I am perfectly happy with it 9 months later. To the novice unbiased third party reading this, I would imagine the 15% difference is an exercise in opportunity cost. If a marginal difference in numbers on paper is a deal breaker then you probably don't care about what I have to say anyway so no worries. I have carbon tint on my car, for the cost I would never tell you its an ineffective or meaningfully inferior product. From someone who has real world experience with carbon tint in a hot climate I would say it makes a SUBSTANTIAL difference over an untinted car, which I would imagine fits the demographic of the majority of people reading an ADVICE COLUMN about tinting their car. To everyone simply seeking information like I was when I joined the forum, I'm glad Mark and I could be of service.

 

[richardfitzwell]

At no point have I argued that carbon is superior to ceramic in any way/shape/form (other than price point) head to head. As I said earlier I would never recommend anyone go out and have one tint or the other stripped off only to have the other put on, because the difference is marginal; aka inches not feet.

The reason I purchased carbon tint over ceramic tint is the same reason I purchased a 2011 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 over a 2011 BMW 535i. Enough said there.

Second, the sunglass example is atrocious because that implies that carbon tint does nothing but provide aesthetic value versus an untinted window, which (based on the empirical evidence you provided above, thanks ), is clearly not the case.

Third, if a ~33% improvement in a measurement that I would perceive the window-tint-layperson has absolutely no experience with is a deal breaker then by all means don't let me deter you because I'll take my 42% improvement over untinted and $100+ difference to the bank all day.

Fourth, "Don't be mislead by one film being a "30" and the other one a "35" since it is the VLT that counts when comparing two films, and 33% vs 35% is the closest I could find between these two brands. Pinnacle does not make a 25 VLT film." is a 100% true statement as that number is purely aesthetic and differs between brands.

Fifth, "As you can see, the Pinnacle ceramic film blows away the Suntek Carbon film in the critical TSER rating, even though the Pinnacle is only 2% darker."
this is entirely biased and unnecessary for a site/thread centered around gathering information/ADVICE, see my third point.

Finally, if achieving the "pinnacle" (no pun intended) of quantitative value is your goal, then for a second time let me reiterate that you are wasting your time reading this far. If you are a rational, objective individual simply seeking information to aid in your decision making process then clearly you have come to the right place as many empirical facts have been coupled with real world experience and laid out in an honest, albeit not quite nonpartisan format for you to extrapolate your own preferences. It should be clear at this point that Mark is as passionate about his decision/assiduous in providing empirical evidence as I am perfectly content with my own, take it or leave it for what its worth. Glad we could help.

 

[thompithak3182]

every website I been on says that the ceramic stuff is the best stuff that has ever been made for tint technology. 100 dollars more I can pay, money is no issue. what I was looking for is the heat reduction. I still stay an improvment is an improvment. if that statement is true that the ceramic is 13% better at heat reduction then its better, even if it is a small improment its still an improvment. plus you cant get the front windshield tinted with a smokey shade anyways. I dont want the cops all over my butt and give me tickets and I have to take it down. the only thing i seen was that air blue and its ceramic. thats the benifit of ceramic. no need for a darker shade to get heat reduction. plus im in it for the long haul and the ceramic does not fade over time or change colors. thats why im choosing ceramic over anything else.

 

[rogerroger]

New '14 tinted with 3M 35% as per GA law and plenty dark with great heat reflection. It's the ceramic and/or metal in the film that reflects the heat and this film seems to do a good job in the southern sun. Huber is better but 2X the price and no one in Atlanta close by seemed to carry/install it.

Noah

I live in the Atlanta area too. Who did you use for your tint? Do you have any pics you can post of your car with the 35%?

Thanks