Buying experience?

[dg_moore]

I broadcast an email request for quote on a 2010 3.8 with premium + nav to dealers within a 50 mile radius. I got a good quote from my local dealer - where I had my Azera serviced - and close-to-list quotes from a bunch of others. One dealer gave me a quote that was about $1500 lower than the quote from the local dealer, but when I asked if a) they had the car in stock; and b) if the quote included any incentives or rebates I received no reply (I knew what incentives were available and that I was not qualified for them - retired military veteran or recent college grad). I suspect they just wanted to get me in the door so they could work on me. I passed.

I bought from my local dealer and got a good OTD price ($34,539+tax) and fair trade on my Azera. The only contentious part of the transaction was in the finance office (I was paying cash), but the finance person pushed very hard for paint protection, undercoating, and an expensive "lifetime warranty." I indicated I was not interested (if I wanted to, I could get all of this cheaper elsewhere), but in spite of this she added the warranty to the invoice anyway, for an additional $1200+. I told her to take it off, and she pressed me even harder to buy it (claiming, for example, that if I damaged a wheel it would cost over $600 to replace - ha!). I finally convinced her that I was not going to and she finally relented.

This was the only part of the transaction that left a bad taste - the rest was straightforward, smooth and efficient.

 

[ctrcbob]

I broadcast an email request for quote on a 2010 3.8 with premium + nav to dealers within a 50 mile radius. I got a good quote from my local dealer - where I had my Azera serviced - and close-to-list quotes from a bunch of others. One dealer gave me a quote that was about $1500 lower than the quote from the local dealer, but when I asked if a) they had the car in stock; and b) if the quote included any incentives or rebates I received no reply (I knew what incentives were available and that I was not qualified for them - retired military veteran or recent college grad). I suspect they just wanted to get me in the door so they could work on me. I passed.

I bought from my local dealer and got a good OTD price ($34,539+tax) and fair trade on my Azera. The only contentious part of the transaction was in the finance office (I was paying cash), but the finance person pushed very hard for paint protection, undercoating, and an expensive "lifetime warranty." I indicated I was not interested (if I wanted to, I could get all of this cheaper elsewhere), but in spite of this she added the warranty to the invoice anyway, for an additional $1200+. I told her to take it off, and she pressed me even harder to buy it (claiming, for example, that if I damaged a wheel it would cost over $600 to replace - ha!). I finally convinced her that I was not going to and she finally relented.

This was the only part of the transaction that left a bad taste - the rest was straightforward, smooth and efficient.

Thats why I hate the F&I guy or gal. I always tell them (pointing to my forehead) that "It does not say STUPID up here", and to "Go Pound Salt".

Did I mention I hate the F&I guys or gals?

 

[wallymn]

they make a big part of their profits in F&I. I really think they don't like cash buyers...

I give the F&I guy a short statement as follows..

"I don't want any extras, I am paying cash, in 5 minutes I get up and leave, with or without the car"

I have been laughed at,,, usually end up walking out on that person... I buy a car every other year (2 car household) so I am prepared for the backroom BS.

 

[Disaster]

The finance person was the most annoying part of our transaction as well. We had negotiated an out the door price with the salesman. First we had to wait two hours for the finance person who was working between two different dealerships (there was a finance person sick that day.) Then they pushed all the extras...interior and paint protection, tire and rim warranty, extended warranty, GAP coverage...etc. I had to sign a paper saying I knew about, but still refused each of them...at my own peril. Finally, we got to signing the actual paperwork and the out the door price was $1,500 too high. The finance person had to go back to the sales manager....mumbling "I don't know how he gave you that price and made any money on the car." She came back and told us there was a rebate she didn't know about that was going to be credited toward the out the door price. If we had been a typical customer, and had a bunch of extras on there too, it probably would have slipped right by. She did offer us a half percent lower interest rate than our local credit union though, so that saved us another $800 bucks over the 60 month loan.

 

[dataguy]

There aren't very many ways to make money on a car sale if the buyer negotiates well on the front-end. Incentives, holdbacks, trade-in value, financing incentives, regional adjustments, dealer installed options, paint/undercarriage/glass/whatever protection, and the like are the instruments in a big shell game in order to make money on the deal.

I agree that the practices are shady, annoying, and, in some cases, downright dishonest, but on the other hand, I think it's part of the negotiation game. And I think everyone understands that car dealers and manufacturers are out to make money. Try walking into any other business as a customer and state, "I'm only going to buy this (whatever) if you sell it to me at zero profit or a loss, otherwise I'll walk away."

Of course, that's also part of the game, and as a consumer, I'll be happy to play it, realizing that otherwise, you're stuck with a Saturn or Carmax model, where you generally pay whatever is asked.

 

[sandy]

There aren't very many ways to make money on a car sale if the buyer negotiates well on the front-end. Incentives, holdbacks, trade-in value, financing incentives, regional adjustments, dealer installed options, paint/undercarriage/glass/whatever protection, and the like are the instruments in a big shell game in order to make money on the deal.

I agree that the practices are shady, annoying, and, in some cases, downright dishonest, but on the other hand, I think it's part of the negotiation game. And I think everyone understands that car dealers and manufacturers are out to make money. Try walking into any other business as a customer and state, "I'm only going to buy this (whatever) if you sell it to me at zero profit or a loss, otherwise I'll walk away."

Of course, that's also part of the game, and as a consumer, I'll be happy to play it, realizing that otherwise, you're stuck with a Saturn or Carmax model, where you generally pay whatever is asked.

I agree with this point of view. That's the way almost all business works. Why is a dealership trying to maximize revenue with add-ons so different from a waiter trying to "sell" you a desert, or McDonald's trying to trade you up to a Large from a Regular or a Men's store suggesting you also buy a tie even tho you went in to just buy a shirt, or a Dentist suggesting you have your teeth whitened when you go in for a check-up, etc, etc? If you don't want it, just say no.

 

[Mark_888]

I agree with this point of view. That's the way almost all business works. Why is a dealership trying to maximize revenue with add-ons so different from a waiter trying to "sell" you a desert, or McDonald's trying to trade you up to a Large from a Regular or a Men's store suggesting you also buy a tie even tho you went in to just buy a shirt, or a Dentist suggesting you have your teeth whitened when you go in for a check-up, etc, etc? If you don't want it, just say no.

In theory, all things the above things are similar, but in practice the tactics of dealers are much more insidious and annoying.

 

[sandy]

Yes, insidious. If you read the posts in this thread, the charges were included on the invoice even after they said "no". I can just imagine what the average unsophisticated Hyundai buyer who can barely understand a contract has to go through.

You must be associated with a dealer.

BTW, very few doctors get paid for tests, since they are sent out to labs who charge us or our insurance companies. But some doctors do indeed perform too much testing in order to avoid getting sued for negligence by personal injury lawyers (about the only creature on earth lower than a car salesperson).

Yes, Mark. I have formed several dummy corporations thru which I control 96% of the dealerships in the USA and plan to take over the remaining 4% by the end of the month.

 

[Matt Z]

Yes, insidious. If you read the posts in this thread, the charges were included on the invoice even after they said "no". I can just imagine what the average unsophisticated Hyundai buyer who can barely understand a contract has to go through.

You must be associated with a dealer.

BTW, very few doctors get paid for tests, since they are sent out to labs who charge us or our insurance companies. But some doctors do indeed perform too much testing in order to avoid getting sued for negligence by personal injury lawyers (about the only creature on earth lower than a car salesperson).

Unfortunately as a personal injury I take offense to your sweeping generalities. Do you really think that airbags, warnings, recalls, yes testing, and in general thinking twice before you put out a dangerous product is done out of conscience !? Don't think so! Greed by "some" corporate people can only be dealt by the likes of us slimy Personal Injury Attorneys, Funny thing, who do you call when you F---ed up and need help?

 

[bskinner]

Yikes, this thread has morphed, a tad. Perhaps the doctor is in a bad mood because of the 21% cut in Medicare fees that will soon be in force. Perhaps there should be a 21% cut in the salaries of car salespersons and dealer services?

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[PINGGOLF]

HELLO.....(knock, knock, knock)

How bout we get back on the "Buying Experience!"

Thanks folks!

 

[dg_moore]

Little did I suspect when I chronicled my experience with the Hyundai dealer that the discussion would veer off into a medical malpractice ditch...

 

[dataguy]

HELLO.....(knock, knock, knock)

How bout we get back on the "Buying Experience!"

Thanks folks!

Is it possible to divide the thread and send the lawyer debate to The Owners Lounge?

 

[PINGGOLF]

Is it possible to divide the thread and send the lawyer debate to The Owners Lounge?

Done...

I called it the DOCTORS/LAWYERS stuff... in the Owners Lounge....

If I missed any...let me know.

 

[malfred]

Re: Buying experience? Read This if you want to Lease

I got a quote for a 3.8 with premium and navigation, with ipod and the other little extras including "Genesis" rear deck and steering wheel badges, at $34,483 plus T & L. I went with the intention of paying cash. Took a long time to do everything. Then salesman and general manager show me that if I lease over 36 months, the total I will pay would be just about $400 more than the total of the cash price.
Looked too good to be true. it was.
They printed out a lease. When I added up the part of the $3500 down payment excluding license and registration, plus the 35 remaining payments, all as outlined in the lease document, the cost was $4,350 more than paying cash. In part, that was the result of the dealer using a larger purchase price ($36,662.71) rather than the $34,453 agreee upon price.I was then told that the difference was the "lease cost." Even after adjusting the price, the "lease cost" was several thousand dollars more than cash.
It was all a big "mistake" said the salesman.
I dont believe car dealers ever make a msitake; they always know what they are doing.
Dealers make a bundle on leases; they push hard to get you to lease.