Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete?

[Sal Collaziano]

To me, top tier luxury that's affordable to regular, every day middle class people comes in three colors: Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-Series and Lexus LS. The Acura RL, Jaguar XJ, Audi A8 and Infiniti Q45 (of old) fall short of the Big Three (no, not GM, Ford and Chrysler). Close - but no cigar. They're all lacking one thing or another.

While the Hyundai Genesis made a big splash in 2008, it certainly falls short of the Big Three in various ways. It's not actually meant to compete head-on with those cars anyway - but it gives them a great run for their money. First of all, there's no extended wheel base version. There's no massaging seats. There's only ONE cooled seat. If you REALLY want to impress your passengers (your boss, CEO or some other executive), you're better off having them ride in the back of an S550, 750Li or LS460L. If you think otherwise, than you haven't been in the back of either of the aforementioned vehicles. Or, maybe you just like being frugal - but that's not what top tier luxury is all about.

Anyway. Is the Hyundai Genesis a great car? Certainly! In fact, it's a better deal than any of the Big Three UNLESS you need a tremendous amount of legroom, massaging seats, cooled seats in the rear, etc, etc, etc. But it's not "top tier" luxury.

So now we have the Genesis Prestige (aka Hyundai Equus). If the information I have is correct, than the Genesis Prestige will kick start a new luxury brand in America for either 2011 or 2012. The Prestige will take on the Big Three and cost a whole lot less - likely starting somewhere between $50,000 and $60,000. Until we actually see the Prestige, we'll have lots of questions.

First, does the Tau compare with the engines of the Big Three when it comes to NVH (noise, vibrations and harshness)? As more and more people buy and drive the Genesis, we'll find out how well this engine holds up.

Will the Prestige be as quiet as it's competitors? Will the build quality be on par? And most important - will the options and features be competitive? I do feel the Prestige will be as quiet as the Lexus LS460 - but we'll just have to wait and see. Build quality? I think there's a good possibility we'll see equal build quality. Power? It's already there in the Genesis Sedan.

I'm a bit of a brand snob - I like driving the best that's available to me - but I would gladly drive a Genesis Prestige (and be proud of it) if it's on par with my other options.

What do you think? Will the Genesis Prestige be competitive with the big guys? Can it really be as comfortable, luxurious, quiet and powerful as an S550, 750Li or LS460? The Hyundai Genesis is a great, great car and a far better value than anything on the road - if you don't mind sacrificing a bit. The Genesis Prestige should leave nothing to be desired.

What's your opinion? We'd like to know...

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Please stay on topic...

Discuss...

 

[jwaters943]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

If it's sold only through select, highly-rated dealerships and comes w/ prepaid maintenance as part of the deal and costs around $50k for a base model and $60k fully-loaded, I think Hyundai will have a modest hit on their hands. Any more than that and they really need a separate luxury channel if they expect to sell more than 100-200 vehicles per month.

Truly though, as much as I adore my Genesis (best car I've ever bought for the money), I don't think I would buy a Equus/Genesis Signature/Genesis Prestige. For me anything over approx. $45k is just too much to spend on a vehicle unless it's sold/serviced in a higher-end "luxury" dealership. I would definitely consider a lightly used model for around $40k though.

 

[briansol]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

i think at the 50k price point, they simply priced themselves out of the market. Hyundai has come a long way these past few years, but it isn't ready for this, yet.

ask me again in 2015.

 

[MattG]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

It's a tough call, but my money's on Hyundai.

My take is that there has been a bit of a gap that has existed when it comes to big luxury cruisers. There was always a space missing, IMHO, between the American large luxury sedans, and the European ones (with Lexus falling on the Euro side as a bit of the new kid on the block).

While the American manufacturers have tried to address this gap (the Cadillac CTS and Lincoln LS come to mind) recently, those have been aimed at the sport sedan market, while the large sedan offerings have remained somewhat stodgier, or were not truly luxury offerings (the 300C comes to mind, powerful, and a nice ride, but lacking the refinement of a luxury car).

Even were it to stop there, I think that Hyundai would have a pretty decent niche to fill, but with the troubles that the American manufacturers have been facing recently, I'd say that things are looking pretty good for them.

Bottom line: Will they truly compete with the likes of BMW? Not for a while. Will the launch be a success? My bet is yes.

 

[ctrcbob]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

OK, seeing as how this subject came up AGAIN.

At first, I was interested in a Mercedes E350. Drove to one Orlando Dealer (Maitland), and nobody would talk with me inside the New Car Showroom. NOBODY. (I took a sniff of my underarms, just to make sure I did not stink <grin>). Then I walked around their new cars that were sitting outside. Again, NOBODY took an interest in me.

Next I went to their "Pre-Owned" area, and after a while, one salesman did come out and talk with me. He started to show me a Certified Pre-Owned, but I guess I asked too many questions, because he then saw someone else in the lot, and he excused himself, telling me that he has already sold this other guy 4 or 5 cars, and he needed to talk with him. Said someone would be right out to take care of me. Nobody ever came back out. After ten minutes or so, I decided to go to the Service Department. (saw the prices they want for service), then back to the New Car Showroom. Nobody. So I just got in my car and left.

Next, I emailed the other Orlando Dealer, (South Orlando) asked some questions, and expected an answer. Got an automated email back saying that they received my email, and they would get back to me soon. Two weeks later, still had not heard from them, so I replied to their reply, (including their automated answer). STILL HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THEM TO THIS DAY.

These Mercedes Dealers either don't really want to sell cars, or perhaps I was not elite enough for them. <grin>

The two Hyundai dealers WANTED my business. I got my Genesis at Orlando Hyundai, and I paid cash. No payments. I could have done the same with the E350, but if they don't want my business, these two dealers (and perhaps Mercedes) can eat their cars.

I also shopped at two Lincoln Dealers, as I looked at the MKS. They also wanted my business, but although nice, and the price was right, plus I could buy using the Ford
X-Plan, I decided I liked the V8 Genesis better. I still like FoMoCo, and when Lincoln comes out with a sedan that looks better than the MKS or MKZ, I may trade the Continental in. (The Continental looks so much better than the MKS/MKZ. being long and low.) Untill then, the Continental will be our other car. (My wife says that she will trade me in, before she trades her Continental in <grin>, as she loves that car).

 

[YEH]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

i think at the 50k price point, they simply priced themselves out of the market. Hyundai has come a long way these past few years, but it isn't ready for this, yet.

ask me again in 2015.

Hyundai isn't planning on bringing more than a few thousand units of the Equus to the States on a yearly basis.

Definitely won't be anywhere close to the level of success of the original LS, but I can see a couple of thousand buyers spending $50-57k on an Equus as opposed to the $70-100k what a comparable Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus would cost.

 

[wallymn]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

I said this elsewhere, but I am not in the market for the ultra large premium sedan (760L, LS460L, Eqqus, A8, MB S series, Cadillac etc,)

However I know a fairly large number of people that are. most of north of 60 and wouldn't consider a Lexus a premium car let alone a Hyundai (assuming it is branded as such).

An informal poll found that BMW and MB are first choice, Cadillac is acceptable, although most comments suggested that a Cadillac only acceptable now because the market has taken such a hit. Lexus is a "kids" car and Infiniti isn't a luxury brand (their words)...

With that as a background.....

When asked about a Hyundai or Lexus like brand for Hyundai the most common response was a laugh. None had heard of the Genesis...
When I explained I bought a Genesis over the BMW the most common response was questioning if I had lost my job..(funny old guys)....

My point is, I believe there is a large segment of the premium market that would never consider the brand, Lexus does just find not breaking into that segment so I hope Hyundai can also.

A better poll would be of Lexus/Infiniti owners and their willingness to look at the brand.

 

[midnite c]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

In a response to wallymn I would consider a Genesis sedan or Equus and I own a 05 Lexus LS. I love my car don't get me wrong, I also lease a 07 Ford Edge. When my lease is up next year I am thinking of keeping my LS and replacing the Edge with a Genesis or if I can afford it a Equus. I hope this answers the question...Joe

 

[TJPark01]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

I think they can, and they will. It will be a huge boost to their brand image. As Jwaters stated, they have to do it through select dealers and really get the service down pat. This car isn't about making tons of dough for H, it's about a renaissance for the company, you do that through product.

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[ajls09873]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Only marketing problem.

Simply, it is bargain S-class.

Pros.
1. It share award winning genesis sedan platform. (verificated. and maybe safe vehicle, too.)
2. Equipped 10 world first cutting edged technologies.
3. Lexicon audio system(Rolls-Royce grade sound), Massage chair, Cool gadgets... better equipments than Lexus LS.
4. Its engine is a award winning '2009 world 10 best engine' by wards auto.
5. Fuel Economy is not inferior than Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Mercedes S-class.
6. Enough interior room size.
7. Quite and silky driving like Lexus LS

Cons.
1. "Hyundai" brand name. America most cheapest car, Hyundai Accent, share its brand name. may consumer's 'dealer experience' will horrible, too.
2. Its interior design is not quite good as Genesis (personal think)

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Only marketing problem.

Simply, it is bargain S-class.

Pros.
1. It share award winning genesis sedan platform. (verificated. and maybe safe vehicle, too.)
2. Equipped 10 world first cutting edged technologies.
3. Lexicon audio system(Rolls-Royce grade sound), Massage chair, Cool gadgets... better equipments than Lexus LS.
4. Its engine is a award winning '2009 world 10 best engine' by wards auto.
5. Fuel Economy is not inferior than Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Mercedes S-class.
6. Enough interior room size.
7. Quite and silky driving like Lexus LS

Cons.
1. "Hyundai" brand name. America most cheapest car, Hyundai Accent, share its brand name. may consumer's 'dealer experience' will horrible, too.
2. Its interior design is not quite good as Genesis (personal think)

Good points - though I'm not sure it's going to have more equipment than the Lexus LS460...

 

[dh19440113]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

The Equus emblem seems like a rip off of Rolls Royce Flying Lady, its definitely not very original.

On top of that this car will still be a hyundai, which remind me of the poor VW phaeton sale in the US.

Value is still Key for this new Hyundai premium sedan. They will need to up the HP for v6/V8 + smoother transmission.

If Hyundai want to be recognized as a luxury brand than they must seed all sub $25,000 dollar vehicle to KIA or else mainstream america will snub Hyundai as an imitator of luxury saloon.

Oh yeah Admin forgot about the Volvo s80 sudan/wagon's appeal to woman luxury car owners and its solid safety rating. (Only male Volvo enthusiast i know is colin powell lol)

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

The Equus emblem seems like a rip off of Rolls Royce Flying Lady, its definitely not very original.

On top of that this car will still be a hyundai, which remind me of the poor VW phaeton sale in the US.

Value is still Key for this new Hyundai premium sedan. They will need to up the HP for v6/V8 + smoother transmission.

If Hyundai want to be recognized as a luxury brand than they must seed all sub $25,000 dollar vehicle to KIA or else mainstream america will snub Hyundai as an imitator of luxury saloon.

Oh yeah Admin forgot about the Volvo s80 sudan/wagon's appeal to woman luxury car owners and its solid safety rating. (Only male Volvo enthusiast i know is colin powell lol)

I certainly agree that the Tau V8 in the Equus needs more power than the Tau in the Genesis. It's going to be bigger and heavier - and as the flagship, should be running to 60 mph around 5.4 seconds. I'm sure Hyundai can get some more power out of the Tau. Maybe with direct injection...

 

[Richard Ft. Lauderdale]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Has anyone seen an Equus at a South Florida dealer yet? My calendar says that summer is here.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Has anyone seen an Equus at a South Florida dealer yet? My calendar says that summer is here.

Not even sure we're getting one.. I hope we do...

 

[dh19440113]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

A mild hybrid like the mercedes s400 would be good. It saves on fuel and meet the new stringent CAFE standard.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Your wish has been granted...

http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=2829

Has anyone seen an Equus at a South Florida dealer yet? My calendar says that summer is here.

 

[dh19440113]

It seems they are serious about importing Equus stateside. Anyone planning to go see the car in person at those dealership?

 

[Richard Ft. Lauderdale]

Re: Can the Genesis Prestige Really (really) Compete? (let's try again)

Your wish has been granted...

http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=2829

Thanks, I have marked on my calendar when it will be at Coconut Creek and Rick Case. Hopfully, I will see it at Coconut Creek where I got mine. I have vowed never to set foot in Rick Case again. But there are exceptions to every rule (if I miss it at Coconut Creek).