CataClean, Techron, or any other engine cleaner for 4.6L engine?

[Ozy44]

Thanks. Yesterday, I cranked the car after it sat in the garage for maybe an hour after it had been driven, but the engine was still quite warm. When I cranked it, it just died, and it didn't try to raise the rpms since the engine was so warm. I cranked it again, and it again died. The third time I cranked it, I used the gas pedal to raise the rpms for a few seconds and it idled fine after that. Yes, cold starts seem to work just fine.

I wouldn't know where the coolant temp sensor is or how to measure resistance. I guess I may have to put it in the shop.

With respect to fuel system cleaners, I bought a bottle of Seafoam yesterday and added it to a full tank of gas. I guess if that doesn't make any difference, perhaps I'll try Techron. I researched Berryman's B12 and it kind of scares me, since people are saying they only use it just prior to an oil change, since it is so strong.

Did you ever clean the throttle plate? I see in your post, you cleaned the MAF but you never said anything about the throttle body.

 

[mtrot]

I did the whole fuel systems and air intake package including new pump assembly, plugs, pro injector cleaning. For air, maf sensor cleaned with correct maf sensor cleaner. (Please just clean the maf sensor. It’s just a little tiny baby sensor that you can barely tell if it’s dirty anyways) Regular air filter and cleaned the throttle body by pressing the throttle down with the car’s accessories on and engine OFF. This is an electronic throttle body! Don’t you dare push on it!!!! You will break the teeth of the gears inside!!!!!!!! It will only move if you press the throttle down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s a two man job to make it easy to clean. Don’t use a brick on the gas petal to do it yourself. It Just doesn’t work.

Also use 91 every once in a while at least. Gas is a solvent!! It will clean your engine!!!!

Interesting that you would say that. This Genesis has never seen any gas other than the top grade for the entire 120,000 miles I've owned it. Actually, I bought it with about 3,500 miles on it, so I'm not sure about what gas it saw before that.

 

[mtrot]

Did you ever clean the throttle plate? I see in your post, you cleaned the MAF but you never said anything about the throttle body.

Good catch. No, I haven't yet gotten back into it to do that. After I cleaned the MAF sensor, I had a devil of a time getting the large rubber hose back onto the intake after I had taken it loose(I did not have any throttle body cleaner at the time). In order to be able to reattach the hose, I had to take off some of the plastic trim piece around the engine bay and remove that one section of the plastic air channel that sits in front of the big hose that comes from the air cleaner. Sounds like you think cleaning the throttle body area is my next step?

 

[Ozy44]

Good catch. No, I haven't yet gotten back into it to do that. After I cleaned the MAF sensor, I had a devil of a time getting the large rubber hose back onto the intake after I had taken it loose(I did not have any throttle body cleaner at the time). In order to be able to reattach the hose, I had to take off some of the plastic trim piece around the engine bay and remove that one section of the plastic air channel that sits in front of the big hose that comes from the air cleaner. Sounds like you think cleaning the throttle body area is my next step?

Typically a temp sensor failure will cause a check engine light and/or will throw a code so I would clean the throttle body first.

 

[Mandrake]

This is from the service manual.

20°C(68°F) 2.45±0.14 kΩ
80°C(176°F) 0.3222 kΩ

The coolant temperature sensor is threaded in near the top pulley, I'm guessing that might be the A/C compressor or something (RockAuto says thermostat housing). The plug snakes around the head and connects near where the valve cover meats the cylinder head on the passenger side head. The coolant temp sensor should be torqued to 28.9 ft/lbs and the wiring bracket bolts are torqued to 8.7 ft/lbs. The CTS has just 2 pins so you measure the resistance between the two. You could probably just turn the car off when its warm, unplug it, and measure the resistance at the base of the sensor by putting your digital multimeter probes directly on the two pins measuring ohms. If the engine is warm, it should be nearly exactly .3222 kohms because the thermostat is 82 degrees (180 F) +/- 2 degrees.

 

[toxicavenger70]

Seafoam per MSDS:
Pale Oil 40-60%
Naphtha 25-35%
Isopropyl Alcohol 10-20%

Berryman's Chemtool B12 per MSDS:
Toluene 40-50%
Acetone 20-30%
Methanol 20-30%
Methyl Ethyl Ketone <5%
Isopropyl Alcohol <5%
2-Butoxyethanol <5%

 

[mtrot]

Typically a temp sensor failure will cause a check engine light and/or will throw a code so I would clean the throttle body first.

Thanks. A couple weeks ago, I had them scan the car at O'reillys and it showed no codes. I guess I'm going to try cleaning the throttle body.

 

[mtrot]

What about the fuel filter? Could that be causing this dying problem? It has never been replaced.

 

[Ozy44]

When the car is cold, the throttle plate is opened further to allow the engine to warm up at higher idle along with more fuel being injected. When the engine warms up, the throttle plate closes almost completely and also less fuel is injected resulting in normal idle. If the throttle plate is dirty, this will impede air flow past the plate and cause a stall when the engine is warmed up. Please clean the throttle plate/body and report back.

 

[Jabald]

Interesting that you would say that. This Genesis has never seen any gas other than the top grade for the entire 120,000 miles I've owned it. Actually, I bought it with about 3,500 miles on it, so I'm not sure about what gas it saw before that.

I bet it will go another 100k! Cheers!

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[mtrot]

Update: I cleaned the throttle body area with CRC throttle body cleaner. I pushed the start button to the accessory mode and then had my wife depress the gas pedal so that the butterfly valve would open. There was a high pitched squeal while doing this. Quite a bit of brown fluid, as well as some fine dark powder was seen running down as I sprayed. I also wiped out as much of it as I could. The perimeter of the orifice looks quite clean now.

After reassembling all the hose work, I cranked it back up and it didn't want to start for 10 seconds or so. After that, it did crank but the idle was rough for a bit. After a little while, the idle became very smooth, with no fluctuations in rpm.

I then took the car out for a drive. As I began to accelerate, the CEL began flashing and the car ran rough. After this, I let off and coasted down the street for a bit. I was going to go back to the house, but the CEL disappeared. So, I continued the drive.

While driving, it seems that the car has forgotten its engine mapping because it seems to be down on power, as well as not wanting to downshift very well when applying the throttle. It used to downshift aggressively. I drove for around a half hour, and it seemed that the downshifting got better, but still not like it was before.

I'm suspecting, and hoping, that somehow the ECU has lost its memory on acceleration and downshifting. It drives very smoothly, however. It also has a bottle of Seafoam in the gas tank, and it does seem that after I put the Seafoam in the tank, it was down on power. Finally, it is about 80 degrees outside, and I am accustomed to driving with the temps in the 60s here lately, so that might have something to do with it as well.

With regard to my original issue of the car dying when restarting it after it sits for 30-40 minutes, I will have to wait to see how that pans out.

Any thoughts? Thanks for all the tips and info here.

 

[QuantumRift]

I'd clean the MAF sensor anyways. Doesn't matter if it 'looks' clean....takes a few seconds..nah never mind...

 

[Ozy44]

Update: I cleaned the throttle body area with CRC throttle body cleaner. I pushed the start button to the accessory mode and then had my wife depress the gas pedal so that the butterfly valve would open. There was a high pitched squeal while doing this. Quite a bit of brown fluid, as well as some fine dark powder was seen running down as I sprayed. I also wiped out as much of it as I could. The perimeter of the orifice looks quite clean now.

After reassembling all the hose work, I cranked it back up and it didn't want to start for 10 seconds or so. After that, it did crank but the idle was rough for a bit. After a little while, the idle became very smooth, with no fluctuations in rpm.

I then took the car out for a drive. As I began to accelerate, the CEL began flashing and the car ran rough. After this, I let off and coasted down the street for a bit. I was going to go back to the house, but the CEL disappeared. So, I continued the drive.

While driving, it seems that the car has forgotten its engine mapping because it seems to be down on power, as well as not wanting to downshift very well when applying the throttle. It used to downshift aggressively. I drove for around a half hour, and it seemed that the downshifting got better, but still not like it was before.

I'm suspecting, and hoping, that somehow the ECU has lost its memory on acceleration and downshifting. It drives very smoothly, however. It also has a bottle of Seafoam in the gas tank, and it does seem that after I put the Seafoam in the tank, it was down on power. Finally, it is about 80 degrees outside, and I am accustomed to driving with the temps in the 60s here lately, so that might have something to do with it as well.

With regard to my original issue of the car dying when restarting it after it sits for 30-40 minutes, I will have to wait to see how that pans out.

Any thoughts? Thanks for all the tips and info here.

Sounds like progress to me. Any time you spray a cleaner into the the throttle body you are essentially flooding the intake. The engine will be slow to start and will chug, belch and fart until it burns off the cleaner. A random CEL is normal due to misfires. I would caution against using anything to wipe the inside of the throttle body as this may introduce lint into the intake. Hope the cleaning helps your warm starts and idle problem.

 

[mtrot]

Sounds like progress to me. Any time you spray a cleaner into the the throttle body you are essentially flooding the intake. The engine will be slow to start and will chug, belch and fart until it burns off the cleaner. A random CEL is normal due to misfires. I would caution against using anything to wipe the inside of the throttle body as this may introduce lint into the intake. Hope the cleaning helps your warm starts and idle problem.

So, after the car sat for about an hour after I last drove it, I just cranked it up and although the rpms did drop like it was going to die, it did not die. The rpms fluctuated a bit, but smoothed out after a few seconds. I will have to wait and see if the dying problem is fixed for sure.

 

[Jabald]

Update: I cleaned the throttle body area with CRC throttle body cleaner. I pushed the start button to the accessory mode and then had my wife depress the gas pedal so that the butterfly valve would open. There was a high pitched squeal while doing this. Quite a bit of brown fluid, as well as some fine dark powder was seen running down as I sprayed. I also wiped out as much of it as I could. The perimeter of the orifice looks quite clean now.

After reassembling all the hose work, I cranked it back up and it didn't want to start for 10 seconds or so. After that, it did crank but the idle was rough for a bit. After a little while, the idle became very smooth, with no fluctuations in rpm.

I then took the car out for a drive. As I began to accelerate, the CEL began flashing and the car ran rough. After this, I let off and coasted down the street for a bit. I was going to go back to the house, but the CEL disappeared. So, I continued the drive.

While driving, it seems that the car has forgotten its engine mapping because it seems to be down on power, as well as not wanting to downshift very well when applying the throttle. It used to downshift aggressively. I drove for around a half hour, and it seemed that the downshifting got better, but still not like it was before.

I'm suspecting, and hoping, that somehow the ECU has lost its memory on acceleration and downshifting. It drives very smoothly, however. It also has a bottle of Seafoam in the gas tank, and it does seem that after I put the Seafoam in the tank, it was down on power. Finally, it is about 80 degrees outside, and I am accustomed to driving with the temps in the 60s here lately, so that might have something to do with it as well.

With regard to my original issue of the car dying when restarting it after it sits for 30-40 minutes, I will have to wait to see how that pans out.

Any thoughts? Thanks for all the tips and info here.

The ecu has not forgotten anything. It’s still trying to run the engine like it was when the throttle body was dirty. It has to adapt to the new driving conditions over time. I would disconnect the battery so it resets immediately. If you haven’t cleaned that Maf sensor, thats the next step (only use maf sensor cleaner). Glad shes running smooth now!

 

[mtrot]

The ecu has not forgotten anything. It’s still trying to run the engine like it was when the throttle body was dirty. It has to adapt to the new driving conditions over time. I would disconnect the battery so it resets immediately. If you haven’t cleaned that Maf sensor, thats the next step (only use maf sensor cleaner). Glad shes running smooth now!

Cleaning the MAF sensor was the first thing I did, as indicated above in the thread. But that did nothing to help the warm startup dying issue.

I will consider disconnecting the battery, as you suggest. I also noticed some clunky and hard transmission gear shifts tonight, which never happened before.

 

[Jabald]

Cleaning the MAF sensor was the first thing I did, as indicated above in the thread. But that did nothing to help the warm startup dying issue.

I will consider disconnecting the battery, as you suggest. I also noticed some clunky and hard transmission gear shifts tonight, which never happened before.

Good.

The transmission is also adaptive. A battery reset will take care of that too. Make sure to leave it disconnected for a few minutes at least. You never touched the transmission, thats a sure sign it’s computer related.

Also, after you do a battery cleansing, your ecu and tcu will need to adapt to how YOU drive, so give it a few days and then see where you’re at!

 

[mtrot]

Good.

The transmission is also adaptive. A battery reset will take care of that too. Make sure to leave it disconnected for a few minutes at least. You never touched the transmission, thats a sure sign it’s computer related.

Also, after you do a battery cleansing, your ecu and tcu will need to adapt to how YOU drive, so give it a few days and then see where you’re at!

Thanks for the info about the transmission. My wife actually drives the Genesis, so I guess it will adapt to how she drives! But I usually take it out fairly often and "blow it out" a bit.

 

[Ozy44]

Soooo..... Did cleaning the throttle body fix your stalling problem?

 

[mtrot]

Soooo..... Did cleaning the throttle body fix your stalling problem?

Well..... I'm not yet sure, since my wife drives the Genesis. I will crank it about an hour after she gets home today and check it out.