Dirty Oil

[greyfox39]

3,000 miles or so after an oil change my oil looks like it came from a tar pit. Service Mgr No. 1 says not changing often enough (about 7,000 miles per the manual). He feels the solution is to change the oil every three weeks or 500 miles (or something equally absurd); whichever comes first.

Service Mgr No. 2 says the engine normally runs "hot" and causes the oil to darken.

I've never had this issue with any other car (well, there was the 1950 Studebaker) but not sure it's a problem.

23,000 miles on my 3.8. Should I care?

 

[Mark_888]

I just checked the oil on my 2009 Genesis 3.8 V6 with 46K miles, after about 3K since last oil change. It is still golden and only slightly dark (although certainly not new). I use Mobil 1 synthetic about every 5000-6000 miles. I would highly recommend switching to a full synthetic motor oil.

If you have a 2012+ Genesis, it has direct injection, which does tend to make the oil darker, which is even more reason to switch to a full synthetic.

 

[homeofstone]

Every 500 miles ???? Dang, I would have to change oil every four days.

 

[greyfox39]

Thanks Mark. I do have a 2012 and use Mobil 1. I guess it's the nature of the beast.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

There's another perspective to consider, especially with a DI engine. If your oil is dark, that means the detergents are working. Better to have the dark stuff suspended in the oil than burned on to the surface of hot, moving engine parts.

 

[Alwaysforward]

3,000 miles or so after an oil change my oil looks like it came from a tar pit. Service Mgr No. 1 says not changing often enough (about 7,000 miles per the manual). He feels the solution is to change the oil every three weeks or 500 miles (or something equally absurd); whichever comes first.

Service Mgr No. 2 says the engine normally runs "hot" and causes the oil to darken.

I've never had this issue with any other car (well, there was the 1950 Studebaker) but not sure it's a problem.

23,000 miles on my 3.8. Should I care?

At your next oil change try a different dealer to make sure they are actually changing your oil. They might not be properly draining it all out.

 

[Mark_888]

At your next oil change try a different dealer to make sure they are actually changing your oil. They might not be properly draining it all out.

Even if they do change it, make sure they use synthetic if you asked for that. There are so many oil change scams (or just mistakes) these days (even at dealers) that I now do my own oil changes. The only time I had my Genesis oil changed at a dealer, I am pretty sure they did not use the oil I supplied, so I had to change it again when I got home.

 

[Southern Boy]

3,000 miles or so after an oil change my oil looks like it came from a tar pit. Service Mgr No. 1 says not changing often enough (about 7,000 miles per the manual). He feels the solution is to change the oil every three weeks or 500 miles (or something equally absurd); whichever comes first.

Service Mgr No. 2 says the engine normally runs "hot" and causes the oil to darken.

I've never had this issue with any other car (well, there was the 1950 Studebaker) but not sure it's a problem.

23,000 miles on my 3.8. Should I care?

Why not consider pulling a sample of your oil at the next change and send it off to these guys (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) to see if there are any issues with the oil or engine.
Go on their web site and request a sample kit (it’s Free) that contains everything you need including instructions.
The analyses cost $25 and you can ask them questions, which they will gladly answer.

 

[Philth]

DO NOT think that the color of your oil is indicative of the life left in it.

GDI engines, by design, make your oil dark faster.

 

[brfatal]

Service Manager #1 has no business working in the automotive field.

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[ShadowZ]

There's another perspective to consider, especially with a DI engine. If your oil is dark, that means the detergents are working. Better to have the dark stuff suspended in the oil than burned on to the surface of hot, moving engine parts.

2nd

Working for Valvoline here. The additives in full synthetic oils are much better than the additives in a conventional or synthetic blend. These additives are designed to do exactly what EXBMW says, suspend dirt and deposits so they do not stay in your engine.

I personally use a form of Valvoline SynPower in all of my vehicles except the Chevelle, which uses VR1. These oils have samples sent to my lab so I can get wear results back and I have always been happy with what the technicians report. They keep my engine clean and free of any unwanted sludge or deposits. I have torn down most of my engines and during the tear down I am never surprised in a bad way.

I believe in the products I use not because I work for the company but because of the product itself. Since Valvoline does not drill for crude, we purchase base stock from our competitors like Exxon/Mobil and others. (co-opetition anyone?) We do this after we sample and test all of their base stock, choose the best they have and pay top dollar for their best based on our testing. This combined with superior additive packages developed by Ashland Inc. is what makes Valvoline a great product.

I am not here to convince anyone that one oil is better than another. Everyone grew up using something, Mobil-1 is usually the beast in question and that is fine, everyone is loyal for their own reasoning.

 

[Philth]

If Valvoline is so "great", then why must one change the oil every 3,000 - 4,000 miles?

https://valvoline.promo.eprize.com/engineguarantee/

 

[ShadowZ]

The simple answer to your question Philth is that the additive package in the oil is not going to provide the same benefits after that amount of time. Motor oil gets dirty and should be changed to remove the oil and its contaminants before they can do damage or excessive wear to you engine. Motor oil does not break down, but the additives do. This is why motor oil can be recycled, or re-refined.

Along with the fact that most manufacturers have a severe oil change interval recommendation of less than 4,000 miles. Some do not publish the severe interval because they have gone the way of using a computer algorithm to determine oil life, and only publish a "just in case" interval.
Chevrolet was one of those, unfortunately for them it blew up in their face when the inline engines experienced engine failure due to bad math. This resulted in higher engine temperatures and failure of the oil filter assembly. There is a recall for those vehicles with those engines to reprogram the computer to a much safer algorithm. NOTE: this was not because of a faulty oil filter, the root cause was the oil change interval.

Euro makers have different engine designs and use different additives altogether, which allows MB/BMW/AUDI to have severe intervals as high as 7,500 and normal intervals of 10,000 miles. Since 85% or more drivers in the US experience severe driving conditions, this is the general sample Valvoline uses to set up its program.

Any other questions please ask. I will be as helpful and informative as I can, and as I am allowed to be.

 

[Philth]

Most everything I have read completely counters your claims of oils needing to be changed on or before 4,000 miles, especially with synthetic oils.

 

[ShadowZ]

Such as? I've also read things like "you can't just switch to synthetic" or switch back, or "it's hard to go to synthetic, you have to do it gradually". Saw that last one on a Genny forum. The problem usually starts with the "mechanic" informing the customer. Or, like many people, thinking that because synthetic oil is better/more expensive that you can double your interval or MORE. I hear it all the time, "well my friend's Mercedes can go 10,000 miles because it uses synthetic, so if I put that in my Honda/Chevy/Nissan I can too!"

Or, "channel 5 news said I don't have to change my oil for 15,000, because oil is just a scam"

Just watch this and it will explain how most people work.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw[/ame]

 

[ShadowZ]

Philth, I will answer questions to the best of my abilities. However, I have read a lot of your posts and you seem like the type of person who likes to argue for the sake of arguing. I will not play your childish game.

If that is how this is going to end up then I will just ignore it. In the end, everyone will use what they want and go as long as they want between oil changes. It makes no difference to me. So my best advise to you would be to do your own research and make decisions based on what you believe to be true. Use whatever oil you want, Pitt-Penn or what have you, and go as long as you want between oil changes. As long as you are happy that is all that matters.

Good day.

 

[homeofstone]

from a comment in shadowZ post. "well my friend's Mercedes can go 10,000 miles because it uses synthetic, so if I put that in my Honda/Chevy/Nissan I can too!"

Yeah I heard the same. However many people don't know that many Mercedes engines hold 8 quarts or more of oil even 6 cycl. engines, so it takes more miles before it needs changing. Honda, Chevy etc use 4 or five, sometimes 6 quarts.

 

[Philth]

Such as? I've also read things like "you can't just switch to synthetic" or switch back, or "it's hard to go to synthetic, you have to do it gradually". Saw that last one on a Genny forum. The problem usually starts with the "mechanic" informing the customer. Or, like many people, thinking that because synthetic oil is better/more expensive that you can double your interval or MORE. I hear it all the time, "well my friend's Mercedes can go 10,000 miles because it uses synthetic, so if I put that in my Honda/Chevy/Nissan I can too!"

Or, "channel 5 news said I don't have to change my oil for 15,000, because oil is just a scam"

Just watch this and it will explain how most people work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CgPsGY5Mw

Care to comment on why VW has 10,000 mile OCIs with their 507 spec oil?

BTW - nothing childish and not arguing for the sake of arguing. 4,000 mile intervals on full syn is about as crazy as they come, in my opinion. I've yet to see an oil analysis that suggest the oil was bad before 5,000 miles, when using full syn.

 

[ShadowZ]

The additive packages are different and react differently because they are designed for the application. If my memory serves me correct, and I can not verify at this time since I am not on the VPN, 507 is diesel spec. Diesels generally run cooler than gasoline engines and at lower RPM. There are many reasons why the interval is what it is for VW and other euros. I am not a chemist so I could not give you a more thorough answer right this second. It would be best asking a chemist who works for any oil company with knowledge of the additive packages or a VW engineer.

 

[Mark_888]

As I am sure you all recall, motor oil base stock is categorized as follows:

• Group I and II - conventional (mineral) oil made from refined crude. Most high quality conventional oil today is Group II.
• Group III - Hydrocracked highly refined mineral oil that has many of the characteristics of true synthetics at a lower cost. In the US (but not in most of Europe) this can be sold as a "synthetic" motor oil, due to an FTC ruling about advertising claims. Not all Group III's are identical, as some are better than others.
• Group IV - Synthetic PAO
• Group V - Synthetic Esters (not necessarily better than Group IV in all cases).

In most of Europe, in order for an oil to be advertised as synthetic, it must not include any Groups I, II, or III base stocks. Therefore the base stocks must be 100% Group IV or V synthetics, These "true" synthetic oils are mandated by most German car oil specs, and such oils can withstand a longer oil change interval. When sold in the US, they are usually designated as "European Formula" oils right on the label because they are low in sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur (SAPS) as required by many European environmental regulations. SAPS additives do produce some extra pollution, but provides for better engine protection in most cases. However, because of this, European Formula oils are not designed to be used in most American and Asian cars and will void your warranty since they are not API certified to meet the specs of those manufacturers (including Hyundai). Likewise, Amsoil Signature formula motor is not API certified (and will void your warranty) for US and Asian cars, even though it does last a long time. Amsoil makes two other lines that are API certified, with similar components to mass market oils.

One example of a European Formula Oil sold in the US is Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula, which is designed for use in cars like MB. Although these European formula oils are low SAPS formulas, they do last a long time since they are true Group IV/V synthetics, and they are usually higher viscosity than is specified for American and Asian engines (which means that fuel mileage is lower with most European Formula oils).

Most synthetic motor oils sold today in the US (that are API certified for American and Asian car manufacturer specs) are either 100% Group III (Castrol Syntec, Pennzoil Platinum, Valvoline SynPower, etc), or a combination of Group III and Group IV/V base stocks (Mobil 1, Pennzoil Ultra, Castrol EDGE Extended Performance, etc). The above percentages do not include the relatively small percentage of oil additives that each contain.

A synthetic blend is not (as some may think) a combination of Group III and Group IV/V base stocks, but instead a combination of Group II conventional oil and a synthetic oil (usually Group III).

Personally, I always recommend synthetic oil. In general, any good quality synthetic "should" last 7500 miles, but with the advent of direct injection, etc, the oil does get dirty awfully fast, and is also subject to fuel dilution in the oil. Another option would be to use Mobil 1 EP (Extended Performance), Pennzoil Ultra, or Castrol EDGE Extended Performance, which should hold up longer, although not necessary deal with dirty oil question any better. Mobil 1 EP is only about $2 more expensive per 5-quart jug than regular Mobil 1 at Walmart, but may not be available at most dealers or oil change shops.