Disappearing Genesis Dealerships

[Jhon]

So all other things being equal (a logical fallacy...I know) two cars, one with a hybrid and one pure ICE, otherwise identical, of course CU would rank the one with much higher fuel economy higher! Duh.

They are a very liberal organization with a huge green agenda. So let's say the the two cars are equal, then they add in the fuel economy and it will tilt the car to the Hybrid. I have no problem with that other than I want to see by how many points.
They rate a car on a lot of things that I don't care about. Such as hard to understand controls. Sure, if I was renting a car this would be a problem, but if I buy the car, I will learn the stuff in no time. I don't care about fuel economy, as I drive so little since I retired. I care about comfort and ride. I do care about reliability.
So I would like to see how they rate the cars so I can come up with my own number. And they refuse.

 

[d4civan]

Not quite:

Consumer Reports' Car Reliability FAQ - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports answers common car reliability survey questions to explain the thought process and science behind the ratings.

www.consumerreports.org

"Brand history" and "reliability of similar models" are irrelevant to the actual owner surveys and is just their excuse when they have such limited data, especially for a lower-volume brand like Genesis. If anything, the parts you showed for the GV70 demonstrated that it actually improved in reliability over the years, yet CR dropped their rating anyway. It's quite nebulous.

You make good points about sample sizes, especially for Genesis. I wish they had disclosed more about how many actual samples they have, and what the %problem rate is as well for the vehicle vs. all in its segment.
And yes, I found the 2023 reliability rating too over punishing too when compared to 2022 year.
All in all, CR's low reliability is a consideration but by no means a deal breaker. Unfortunately, the general public won't have as discerning eyes as ours.

 

[Backslack]

You make good points about sample sizes, especially for Genesis. I wish they had disclosed more about how many actual samples they have, and what the %problem rate is as well for the vehicle vs. all in its segment.
And yes, I found the 2023 reliability rating too over punishing too when compared to 2022 year.
All in all, CR's low reliability is a consideration but by no means a deal breaker. Unfortunately, the general public won't have as discerning eyes as ours.

To be honest, I don't think the general public subscribes to CR or really even acknowledges it. Otherwise BMW and Mercedes wouldn't be outselling Lexus like they do now.

 

[d4civan]

They are a very liberal organization with a huge green agenda. So let's say the the two cars are equal, then they add in the fuel economy and it will tilt the car to the Hybrid. I have no problem with that other than I want to see by how many points.
They rate a car on a lot of things that I don't care about. Such as hard to understand controls. Sure, if I was renting a car this would be a problem, but if I buy the car, I will learn the stuff in no time. I don't care about fuel economy, as I drive so little since I retired. I care about comfort and ride. I do care about reliability.
So I would like to see how they rate the cars so I can come up with my own number. And they refuse.

Haha, you sound exactly like the problems I have had in digesting those ratings.
I had to plunk their 1 to 5 ratings for vehicle traits I care about, in an Excel sheet, and come up with my own scores to compare models.

 

[d4civan]

To be honest, I don't think the general public subscribes to CR or really even acknowledges it. Otherwise BMW and Mercedes wouldn't be outselling Lexus like they do now.

Yep, if they did, CR wouldn't have a sample size problem.
I suspect it's mostly word of mouth, advertisements, deals they get, test drives, and in case of luxury , name prestige.

 

[steveinarizona]

They are a very liberal organization with a huge green agenda. So let's say the the two cars are equal, then they add in the fuel economy and it will tilt the car to the Hybrid. I have no problem with that other than I want to see by how many points.
They rate a car on a lot of things that I don't care about. Such as hard to understand controls. Sure, if I was renting a car this would be a problem, but if I buy the car, I will learn the stuff in no time. I don't care about fuel economy, as I drive so little since I retired. I care about comfort and ride. I do care about reliability.
So I would like to see how they rate the cars so I can come up with my own number. And they refuse.

You make some interesting points here. I will try to address them:

(1) They rate a lot of cars on features you don't care about. I completely agree but so do every publication that rates automobiles. Have you ever read reviews in Car & driver or Motortrend and said to yourself: but what if they did X instead when they set up the car? I think it is incumbent on consumer to determine what is important to them. I start by taking apart the ranking to see how a car does in features that are important to me. I also read other publications.

For example, they downrate my vehicle as having unnecessary horsepower and being more expensive than its siblings (Hyundai Ionic 5 and Kia EV 6). Yet for my personal tastes I wanted the extra horsepower (for "heavy" electric cars I think the sweet spot is in the 400s) and I wanted the luxurious features. To me that made the extra cost of the GV60 over the Hyundai and Ionic very worthwhile.

Ratings such as those of CU, Motortrend and Car & Driver are useful starting places. But they should not be landing places.

(2) Reliability. Once enough of a particular vehicle are in their user community they rate reliability based on user responses, not their reviews. They also breakdown the reliability by categories. But if enough readers don't respond on a particular vehicle (such as a new model or a special purpose vehicle like a Ferrari) they can only project and that is based on brand history and I suspect its usual view that any vehicle should not be trusted in its first production year.

(3) They won't break down their rating criteria. True, but, again, who does? Some publications look like they do because they add up a bunch of scores to give a rating but look at the individual items and they are almost all subjective. Adding up a lot of subjective opinions doesn't improve statistical accuracy, in fact it reduces it. CU buys its cars anonymously so that the car makers don't sell them a carefully checked vehicle (such as "press cars"). Not sharing how it computes its ratings helps it keep car makers from building to the standard.

Again, IMO the points you raise are fair but unavoidable. Your posting appears to be that of an intelligent consumer so I am sure you are using all sources to make your decision.

 

[YEH]

Not surprised about the drop off in Genesis reliability for CR as they take inputs from more recent owners (as short as 6 months) which means including newer models which haven't gotten the kinks sorted out yet.

In contrast, JDP strictly takes a look at 3 yr old models, so the newer Genesis products wouldn't be included (or if they are included, would only entail a short ownership period).

As for this, one has to take into account where thel vehicle is in its life cycle.

The GV70 is pretty much the newest model of those listed (along with the NX, which didn't fare well for a Lexus product).

Models like the RDX, XT5, Corsair and Q5 are ancient (not a good sign when they still remain near the bottom).

Speaking of the RDX, while reliability is good now, that wasn't always the case.

CR Reliability Rankings for 2020

1. Lexus
2. Mazda
3. Toyota
4. Porsche
5. Genesis
6. Hyundai
7. Subaru
8. Dodge
9. Kia
10. Mini
11. Nissan
12. Honda
13. Infiniti
14. Audi
15. Lincoln
16. Ford
17. BMW
18. Buick
19. Chrysler
20. Mitsubishi
21. Mercedes-Benz
22. GMC
23. Tesla
24. Volvo
25. Chevrolet
26. Jeep
27. Volkswagen
28. Acura
29. Alfa Romeo
30. Cadillac

Acura was pretty much at the bottom as during this time period, they had introduced new products and/or powertrains.

While Acura has since risen in CR's rankings, they are still below average in JDP's since JDP only looks at 3 yr old models.

 

[metallica470]

I have been looking at purchasing a GV70 for the last couple years just holding out for stock and no dealership markups. Two dealerships near me in the Chicagoland area just told me they are no longer selling Genesis as of this week and will not be able to service Genesis under warranty. One of them was less than a mile from me which was perfect and had planned on taking to whenever needed.

Does anyone have information if more dealers will no longer be selling Gensis soon? Are standalone dealerships coming very soon? I don't know if I should be concerned about purchasing a Genesis if I will not have anywhere to take it for service if more dealerships stop selling soon too.

 

[EdP]

I have been looking at purchasing a GV70 for the last couple years just holding out for stock and no dealership markups. Two dealerships near me in the Chicagoland area just told me they are no longer selling Genesis as of this week and will not be able to service Genesis under warranty. One of them was less than a mile from me which was perfect and had planned on taking to whenever needed.

Does anyone have information if more dealers will no longer be selling Gensis soon? Are standalone dealerships coming very soon? I don't know if I should be concerned about purchasing a Genesis if I will not have anywhere to take it for service if more dealerships stop selling soon too.

Do some searching here. This is a list of stand-alone dealers and more will be opening. They are finally doing what they intended to do back in 2016 but the Hyundai franchise dealers took them to court.

Start here:

Standalone Genesis Dealers

Has anybody seen any real standalone* Genesis dealerships with separate Service Departments? *Totally distinct and apart

genesisowners.com

 

[PMCErnie]

What would I do? I’d determine which dealers near me are critical to my purchase. Then I’d visit each dealer’s General Manager’s office and review my concerns in- person.

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[metallica470]

Do some searching here. This is a list of stand-alone dealers and more will be opening. They are finally doing what they intended to do back in 2016 but the Hyundai franchise dealers took them to court.

Start here:

Standalone Genesis Dealers

Has anybody seen any real standalone* Genesis dealerships with separate Service Departments? *Totally distinct and apart

genesisowners.com

I have looked at that list already. Not much across the entire US. 1 standalone in Illinois and 0 in Indiana. I was curious if an upcoming list for 2024 existed. Both the dealerships no longer selling told me that they were asked to open standalone's but they said no and now they won't sell or service Genesis at all. No longer selling before standalone are even open seems backwards?

 

[metallica470]

What would I do? I’d determine which dealers near me are critical to my purchase. Then I’d visit each dealer’s General Manager’s office and review my concerns in- person.

That's what I was thinking. I wonder how honest they would be if they do have plans to no longer sell Genesis. I didn't want to purchase just to find out a few weeks later then will no longer be able to service Genesis.

 

[RCH04]

I have been looking at purchasing a GV70 for the last couple years just holding out for stock and no dealership markups. Two dealerships near me in the Chicagoland area just told me they are no longer selling Genesis as of this week and will not be able to service Genesis under warranty. One of them was less than a mile from me which was perfect and had planned on taking to whenever needed.

Does anyone have information if more dealers will no longer be selling Gensis soon? Are standalone dealerships coming very soon? I don't know if I should be concerned about purchasing a Genesis if I will not have anywhere to take it for service if more dealerships stop selling soon too.

Where are these two dealerships? I'm in the Chicago area too, SW suburbs, and wonder if either of them are near me. Thanks for the info.
Out of curiosity I just checked the Genesis near me (Orland Park/Tinley Park area) and it's "Permanently Closed ". Quite a surprise.

 

[metallica470]

Where are these two dealerships? I'm in the Chicago area too, SW suburbs, and wonder if either of them are near me. Thanks for the info.
Out of curiosity I just checked the Genesis near me (Orland Park/Tinley Park area) and it's "Permanently Closed ". Quite a surprise.

Yep, that was one of them and the one I am closest to as well. The other is the Oak Park location which coincidentally is also the one near one of my work offices. Their website was taken offline yesterday.

Unfortunately, the standalone Aurora dealer is nearly 1 hour away. I am curious now with two different dealers no longer selling and servicing Genesis this week if their are others that stopped near us as well.

 

[Trixie86]

Yep, that was one of them and the one I am closest to as well. The other is the Oak Park location which coincidentally is also the one near one of my work offices. Their website was taken offline yesterday.

Unfortunately, the standalone Aurora dealer is nearly 1 hour away. I am curious now with two different dealers no longer selling and servicing Genesis this week if their are others that stopped near us as well.

No help for a Southsider, but...

North Aurora is open.

 

[RCH04]

Yep, that was one of them and the one i am near as well. The other is the Oak Park location. Their website was taken offline yesterday.

Yep, that was one of them and the one I am closest to as well. The other is the Oak Park location which coincidentally is also the one near one of my work offices. Their website was taken offline yesterday.

Unfortunately, the standalone Aurora dealer is nearly 1 hour away. I am curious now with two different dealers no longer selling and servicing Genesis this week if their are others that stopped near us as well.

This news definitely puts a damper on my interest in shopping for a Genesis especially convenience when it comes to service.

I always wondered about the Tinley Park location's commitment to the Genesis brand since they never did put up a sign on the building - Just a small sign out along the street. And as you know, this stretch of 159th street has every luxury and upscale brand represented within a few blocks.

 

[Trixie86]

This news definitely puts a damper on my interest in shopping for a Genesis especially convenience when it comes to service.

I always wondered about the Tinley Park location's commitment to the Genesis brand since they never did put up a sign on the building - Just a small sign out along the street. And as you know, this stretch of 159th street has every luxury and upscale brand represented within a few blocks.

Unless it's warranty work, any Hyundai will work. I bought at the North Aurora Genesis/Hyundai store 2 years ago. About 40 minutes away. Bought my 1st Genesis at the Genesis/Hyundai store in Chicago was my go to joint.

 

[tarhoosier]

My local and selling Genesis/Hyundai dealer said there is one or two Genesis trained technicians and only those men do warranty work on Genesis vehicles.* All the other stuff that is common to ICE and EV vehicles such as tires, brakes, fluids, interior, lights and so on are fair game for any person in the shop.

*if I am to believe him

 

[EdP]

I have looked at that list already. Not much across the entire US. 1 standalone in Illinois and 0 in Indiana. I was curious if an upcoming list for 2024 existed. Both the dealerships no longer selling told me that they were asked to open standalone's but they said no and now they won't sell or service Genesis at all. No longer selling before standalone are even open seems backwards?

Perhaps it is, but we've not seen the contracts and obligations. As incentive to open a stand alone I imagine it would include some territorial exclusive. Franchise laws are a big factor in how they move forward.

 

[G-493119]

As of now no Hyundai dealer is allowed to service a genesis, they are unable to order parts for them, we just finished our stand-alone genesis dealership in Utah.