Disappointing Hyundai response re: iPod flaws

[cliffbig]

From the stereo controls (I think this is called the DIS), I can play all songs or play lists just fine and even though you can't 'shuffle', I usually just hit the random button and it works fine on either all songs or within a play list. I'm not an iPod purist, so I don't know if this suffices as shuffling or not. Cliff: Is the problem your are describing just limited to the tech package Lexicon?

As best I can tell, it is limited to the Tech Package only. It appears that when they upgraded the stereo system in the tech package to the 17-speaker system, they also removed that RANDOM that you referred to, and no one thought it through to realize that there is no other way to randomize songs in an iPod playlist once it was taken away. And apparently, Hyundai's knowing that they've created the problem and feeling a need to create a solution are two different things...

 

[Lonny 53]

I have a Sansa 8gb MP3 player that does not work in my Genesis. When I hooked it up, the message on the nav display indicated that it was not a supported device. I have a 2gb Sandisk Cruzer "stick" drive and that works fine. Unfortunately, it does not hold a lot of tunes. So, I got an 8gb Cruzer and loaded it up. It works great thru the AUX and the sound is teriffic!

 

[BaywayRic]

I have a Sansa 8gb MP3 player that does not work in my Genesis.

All MP3 players should work fine. How did you connect it? It needs a two ended cable with mini stereo jacks on each end. One end in the earphone jack of the MP3 and the other end in the line in jack on the car. The MP3 controls the music, not the car. Like you, I use thumb drives. They are much easier and offer modest control through the DIS system.

 

[darammer]

I have a Sansa 8gb MP3 player that does not work in my Genesis. When I hooked it up, the message on the nav display indicated that it was not a supported device. I have a 2gb Sandisk Cruzer "stick" drive and that works fine. Unfortunately, it does not hold a lot of tunes. So, I got an 8gb Cruzer and loaded it up. It works great thru the AUX and the sound is teriffic!

I too use the thumb drive... I have the Corsair 16gb model and am yet to fill it up, thought I was picky while filling it... I could easily fill it if I chose to.

I find that the well recorded audio (256k and up) has superior sound... One quip is that you have to know what you are looking for when scanning for a track or album as the premium plus package doesnt give you the DIS knob and you have to browse alphabetically with an up down button.

 

[Simonwpb]

There was obviously a reason why Hyundai partnered with Microsoft for the next generation of integrated auto information and music system.

The DIS with Lexicon is the best system I ever owned in a car, but as Cliff has pointed out it falls short in true iPod integration. Then again I don't know of another vehicle that clearly is better either.

Between me and my kids I have probably purchased 10 iPods, and each time they keep getting better. Same thing with the Genesis - I am sure the 2010 models will continue to improve and refine the technology, and upgrades rarely come free.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Allow me to point out something... and not to be arrogant

DIS is designed by Harman/Becker. Not Hyundai. Harman/Becker designed the same iDrive system in the BMWs, Audi MMI, and Mercedes COMMAND.

Additionally, BMW has flawless iPod and iPhone (random/shuffle feature) integration. As a matter of fact they were one of the FIRST to have this.

Unfortunately, the reason the Genesis does not have it, is because iPhone software, and many other aspects of iPod integration updates weren't available to Hyundai while the Genesis was in development.

Why?

1. Contractual agreements between Apple and other car manufacturers (BMW, MB, etc)
2. The sheer unavailability of the iPhone. We all know the Genesis has been in development for A LONG time. And as large as Harman/Becker is, even they have the same agreements not to produce products for other car manufacturers (Hyundai's own DIS) over other companies (BMW, etc)

If I may... please, allow me to explain a few things that will have to happen. And if you're resourceful, and understand the common agreement between who developed the sound system in your car (Lexicon) and who their parent company is (Harman International) combined with who wrote the software for DIS (Harman/Becker) and who their parent company is (Harman International), you'll note: you'll lose the beloved Lexicon option.

Hyundai has to forfeit all rights to usage of Lexicon in the product "Genesis" to use the "Sync from Microsoft". Why? Because Microsoft has exclusive sound system contracts from Audiophile Inc and Sony.

From some points of view, you may say.. oh well.. big whoo. From most.. that's NOT good.

You'll end up with the same interface used in a Ford Flex with a few colors changed.

Is that what you want. JUST so you have a functional iPod?

Or are you willing to wait it out, until Harman/Becker has a update to your dealership and pay (a hopefully) small fee to allow it to be used correctly?

----

Guys and gals.... this is Hyundai's first go round in the US luxury market with this product. Something had to give somewhere. And legally, this was it. And there may be other things; we all know. I'm sure some of us are professionals. And understand how things work, especially in contracts. And especially with contracts IN the auto industry. It's cut-throat.

Patience guys. Make your demands known to Hyundai. But for goodness sake, Sync isn't the answer. Don't do this to Hyundai.

They'd be looking at a change across the board, NO more Infinity products either, or Logic7 licensing, as those are ALL Harman International Products

 

[cliffbig]

iPod hasn't changed the functionality for shuffle since the first iPod release. This isn't here because the division that designed the DIS didn't notice that they were removing the random button when they upgraded the stereo, and they forgot to program it in.

I understand oversights--but I have less understanding of a consumer affairs department that says "yes, we've verified that it doesn't work, but we have no plans to correct that."

We're not talking about iPhone functionality here--we're talking about a basic component of iPod functionality that's been an integral part of the iPod since the player was first introduced.

This could be remedied with a software update. As you say, they've had iPod functionality with the iDrive for years, and it works just great--so there's no reason they couldn't make it work here, too. They just have to decide they want to.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

a consumer affairs department...? You believe what a customer service department tells you? who has no direct knowledge, other than what a computer system tells him? He probably doesn't have the authority or time to call the IT department and get a upgrade flow, to see what's coming on the pipeline.

I wasn't making it an issue of a "phone" per se.. as the iPhone's iPod functions on the same framework your device physically branded as an iPod shuffle, iPod nano, and iPod classic. etc.

--

It will be ok. Trust me. I'm sure there's some work around coming in the next update. The car is TOO new for them to issue a complete update.

Everybody breathe.... in.... and out.... And take a look at the electronics world in regards to the automotive industry. USB inputs are still relatively new first of all. Second... everyone goofs. It could've been worse. It could be permanent. Be optimistic, be certain. Maybe instead of being pessimistic about it, we should actually contact the source - Hyundai Corporate. Maybe we should contact the Genesis team. Information like that shouldn't be too hard to turn up.

Folks. An issue like this, is bound to upset a lot of people. It's already upset one, and some have stated they'd rather own a FORD product over this wonderful car, due to this one issue. It's not something that a dealership should address. Dealerships operate on a long leash from the mother-ship.

Customer Service numbers work for 3rd party call center management companies. They take your notes, and your name, contact info, etc. And might call you back with vague information. But do you actually believe that it's made it up the food chain? Maybe, in a perfect world.

Unfortunately, I'm quite cynical, at the ripe age of 22 years old. And I don't trust some (potential) cube buffoon in a call centre to pass on that info. For all I know, he could be driving a BMW 335i when he goes home, with a functional iPod randomization feature... right?

Let's be professional. Let's meet halfway if we have to. But most of all. Let's be patient.

 

[cliffbig]

This wasn't the response of someone just talking off the cuff. I called Hyundai with the problem. They thought at first I was doing something wrong. Consumer affairs verified the problem. They escalated it up the line and we spoke a couple of times over a weeklong period before the consumer affairs rep finally got the answer that I posted here. He confirmed that everyone figured I had to be doing something wrong until they tried to shuffle playlists and discovered that they had somehow omitted functionality so basic that they couldn't believe it wasn't there.

This wasn't a dealership response--this was Hyundai consumer affairs, contacted through the toll-free number, and they forwarded the info up the line to the Genesis/Lexicon team.

I hope you're right that it's going to be fixed. But the word coming down from these guys was that it isn't. I'm hoping they'll reconsider.

 

[zedbyers]

I hope you're right that it's going to be fixed. But the word coming down from these guys was that it isn't. I'm hoping they'll reconsider.

i think they will fix it. cliff, think about how many times you log into itunes and it seems that every 3 months you get a pop up telling you there is new software for the ipod or itunes itself.

these cars are getting to a point where they are no different. my god, this thing has a fiber optic network and 40gb hard drive. i am sure we will get several software updates over the life of the car, and probably won't even know it!!

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[enjoyingsilence]

And still... you've not contacted the proper people. It's not the car manufacturers fault. Hyundai didn't write the software. Perhaps you should contact Harman/Becker...

----

Honestly, it's not hard to get a developer key for the software, and to the installation yourself. I've already applied for one. The USB interface in your arm rest does A LOT more than you think. With a 'A to A" cable (the long rectangular one), you can mount the hard drive in the car to your computer, like an external. And using the API software from NAVTEQ and Harman/Becker update, modify, etc, the software on the car's computer, change colors, interface icons, rearrange menus, etc.

People have been doing it for years with the BMWs & Mercedes Interfaces. That's the beauty of the interface design.

----

It's as simple as drag an image, link it to the proper framework controls, and click save. If you can make a playlist in iTunes, you can program the nav system in your car.

----

an update will likely come. It can be done.

 

[cliffbig]

And still... you've not contacted the proper people. It's not the car manufacturers fault. Hyundai didn't write the software. Perhaps you should contact Harman/Becker...

Actually, I have contacted the proper people. My first contact was with Harman; I spoke with someone in the Lexicon developoment team. They delivered a sound system to Hyundai's designs; they did not create the specs or the problem, they say.

Hyundai agreed that they were the source to address about the problem.

I didn't start griping about this until I had moved through both channels (Harman's Lexicon team and the Genesis consumer affairs/support team) and got the word that help was NOT forthcoming, in spite of the acknowledged flaw.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

If you're willing to let Hyundai take the blame. Go for it.

 

[cliffbig]

If you're willing to let Hyundai take the blame. Go for it.

Let's see... Lexicon says it's Hyundai's fault. Hyundai says it's Hyundai's fault, but they have no plans to correct it. Is there some other source of information you have access to that would indicate otherwise?

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Let's see... Lexicon says it's Hyundai's fault. Hyundai says it's Hyundai's fault, but they have no plans to correct it. Is there some other source of information you have access to that would indicate otherwise?

You know, I actually spent like 3-4 minutes writing up a summary of things I've already said that indicate otherwise, why what you've already been told is wrong, and why you are uninformed/mis-informed; and halfway thru, realized that it didn't matter.

You'd skim through my post, and out of spite, come back with, "oh well, I've tried that, and I talked to the people who made the system... and they blamed Hyundai... and Hyundai said they aren't going to fix it. So I believe them. "

It's like buying an 'AA' battery for your TV remote, but discovering it doesn't work. You'd call Energizer or Duracell, who admits they forgot to put alkaline or lithium in the battery. Then call Time Warner or Comcast who admits they won't fix it.

See my point?

No matter what I say, in regards to who you should ACTUALLY be contacting, and who REALLY programs, designs, codes, and produces the software that enables you to do what you cannot (at the moment) do with your iPod (or other Portable Music Players), you don't call them.

So, my replies are futile, and a waste of my time.

(also, my source of information is coming from someone who has a working USB connector, with an (oh ... drumroll) iPHONE. NOT using the Hyundai cable, just a standard USB iPod/iPhone sync cable). So, yes, I tend to think I know what I'm talking about, since I have a developer key from Harman Kardon & Becker Auto Sound to reprogram the DIS as I see fit.

 

[cliffbig]

You know, I actually spent like 3-4 minutes writing up a summary of things I've already said that indicate otherwise, why what you've already been told is wrong, and why you are uninformed/mis-informed; and halfway thru, realized that it didn't matter.

You'd skim through my post, and out of spite, come back with, "oh well, I've tried that, and I talked to the people who made the system... and they blamed Hyundai... and Hyundai said they aren't going to fix it. So I believe them. "

It's like buying an 'AA' battery for your TV remote, but discovering it doesn't work. You'd call Energizer or Duracell, who admits they forgot to put alkaline or lithium in the battery. Then call Time Warner or Comcast who admits they won't fix it.

See my point?

No matter what I say, in regards to who you should ACTUALLY be contacting, and who REALLY programs, designs, codes, and produces the software that enables you to do what you cannot (at the moment) do with your iPod (or other Portable Music Players), you don't call them.

So, my replies are futile, and a waste of my time.

(also, my source of information is coming from someone who has a working USB connector, with an (oh ... drumroll) iPHONE. NOT using the Hyundai cable, just a standard USB iPod/iPhone sync cable). So, yes, I tend to think I know what I'm talking about, since I have a developer key from Harman Kardon & Becker Auto Sound to reprogram the DIS as I see fit.

Oh, that's right--both Hyundai and Harman Becker are wrong... I forgot. So, oh guru of wisdom who managed to reprogram his car, where's your solution to iPod randomization?

And why should the purchasers of a $40k car have to learn to develop software for it anyway?

Apparently you miss the point that everyone but you says that this was Hyundai's mistake. Hyundai, for aesthetic reasons, wanted no random button on cars equipped with a DIS; Hyundai, however, did not put in the specs for the stereo that they needed that randomization added for the iPod. I've talked to Harman Becker, I've talked to the Harman OEM team for automotive product, and I've talked to Hyundai.

Your analogy is totally invalid. Harman made the Lexicon system to Hyundai's specs. It's more akin to presenting a contractor with a set of blueprints you've designed yourself. The contractor builds to your specs, and then when you get through you discover that you forgot to draw in a window, so the contractor built the room with no window. You meant to put in a window, but the contractor followed your specs, so he sees no reason to add the window unless you want to draw up a new agreement at an extra cost. So you are forced to admit that this room has no window, it's your fault, and it's not going to have a window (unless, of course, you want to put more money into it).

Everyone at every phase--everyone but you, an outsider who hasn't spoken to any of them--agrees that Hyundai dropped the ball. That includes Hyundai.

But for some reason, you think that all of them have no idea what they're talking about and you do, even though you haven't spoken to any of them.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Oh, that's right--both Hyundai and Harman Becker are wrong... I forgot. So, oh guru of wisdom who managed to reprogram his car, where's your solution to iPod randomization?

And why should the purchasers of a $40k car have to learn to develop software for it anyway?

Apparently you miss the point that everyone but you says that this was Hyundai's mistake. Hyundai, for aesthetic reasons, wanted no random button on cars equipped with a DIS; Hyundai, however, did not put in the specs for the stereo that they needed that randomization added for the iPod. I've talked to Harman Becker, I've talked to the Harman OEM team for automotive product, and I've talked to Hyundai.

Your analogy is totally invalid. Harman made the Lexicon system to Hyundai's specs. It's more akin to presenting a contractor with a set of blueprints you've designed yourself. The contractor builds to your specs, and then when you get through you discover that you forgot to draw in a window, so the contractor built the room with no window. You meant to put in a window, but the contractor followed your specs, so he sees no reason to add the window unless you want to draw up a new agreement at an extra cost. So you are forced to admit that this room has no window, it's your fault, and it's not going to have a window (unless, of course, you want to put more money into it).

Everyone at every phase--everyone but you, an outsider who hasn't spoken to any of them--agrees that Hyundai dropped the ball. That includes Hyundai.

But for some reason, you think that all of them have no idea what they're talking about and you do, even though you haven't spoken to any of them.

This point is moot. Arguing who is right, or who is wrong, or what could've would've should've been done, is useless. Unfortunately, you're screwed. Assuming you bought the Genesis and don't have a working randomisation feature... (yes I can spell randomize, randomise, because I'm british, lol)

Also, to answer, what my solution to randomisation was: 3.5mm line out, with the 3.5mm line in, on my iPod, laptop, PMP, etc.. with a real random button, shuffle button, etc. Because it works. And in my specific case, which really, is all I care about works, because I have an iPhone, and don't want a stupid USB dongle "thing" locking up my phone, with a bloody Hyundai logo, keeping me from answering a text or email.

 

[cliffbig]

This point is mute.

The word is "moot."

And you're right--currently, Genesis tech package owners are screwed on this feature. However, if enough people complain, perhaps Hyundai will actually decide it's worth spending money to correct it.

It's only going to happen if enough people ask for it. Right now, they haven't heard from enough, so they say no correction is forthcoming.

The OEM group says it can be fixed--but Hyundai hasn't asked for it to be done so far.

And if you're willing to accept the degradation of sound quality that goes along with a 3.5mm line out, that's great--but it's the outstanding sound quality of the Lexicon that's its selling point, and you take a significant quality hit by going through the conversion necessary to utilize the headphone jack. And then you have to put a charger in there if you're going run music for a while and don't want to drain the battery, and you can't use the steering wheel controls, and the only way you can see the song title is by keeping the iPod or iPhone out in plain sight... there are all sorts of compromises there, and I find them even more troublesome than the lack of playlist randomization. You don't, so you consider it a solution and that's fine. I don't see it that way.

I have an iPhone as well--but I don't want to use it for music in the car, because I have more music than that. I have found workable solutions, albeit not great ones--I just put sub-playlists on some of the older iPods I have lying around, and I have one iPod that only has this playlist on it, one that only has that playlist, etc. I still want to keep one with everything on it as well, so this system gives me a couple of different options. Not great ones, but usable until Hyundai decides it's worth doing right by their tech package customers.

 

[enjoyingsilence]

Thanks Webster Merriam

I don't particularly care if it's fixed or not. Doesn't bother me much at all if it is. I'm happy with the 3.5mm line in.

I only modified the software the way I did, to use the USB port to charge my phone. Which works wonders.

 

[cliffbig]

Thanks Webster Merriam

I don't particularly care if it's fixed or not. Doesn't bother me much at all if it is. I'm happy with the 3.5mm line in.

I only modified the software the way I did, to use the USB port to charge my phone. Which works wonders.

There ya go, then!

If I wanted to accept second-rate inputs with diminished sound response, I wouldn't have narrowed my choices down to the three cars that made my final list. But so long as you're happy, there's no reason for you to pursue a fix. Me, I consider a 3.5mm line in to be slightly better than an FM modulator, and wouldn't want to rely on either.

And I think that those discerning listerners who choose the upgraded stereo system shouldn't have to accept diminished functionality or diminished sound quality. If any of them want to, that's fine--but it should be a matter of personal choice, not something forced on them by flawed design specs and corporate intransigence.