Electrify America Sucks

[noremacnova]

How many 20-80% L3 charges can you get for $500? Seems like free charging for 3 years is a better deal, assuming you can easily get to one.

Brace for a crude calculation. Charging 60%’tage points on a 77kWh battery requires 46kWh. At a common commercial price of $0.50\kWh, that comes to about $23 per charge. So for your $500, you could charge 20-60% about 21 or 22 times.

 

[GreyGV60]

Great info, thanks everyone.

How many 20-80% L3 charges can you get for $500? Seems like free charging for 3 years is a better deal, assuming you can easily get to one.

Personally, if I bought an EV, putting in an L2 charger at home would be a no brainer, and I'd always carry my L1 with me. Gotta be ready for spontaneous travel, and lessen the chance of ever getting stuck somewhere on the road.

It depends on how much the L3 charge per KW. In my area if I charge early before 8am it costs .39 at Tesla. $500 would give me 22.36 20% to 80% charges. Yes, 3 years free charging is a better deal, unless you most always charge at home and the $500 credit does not have an expiration date.

 

[ideutsch]

Great info, thanks everyone.

How many 20-80% L3 charges can you get for $500? Seems like free charging for 3 years is a better deal, assuming you can easily get to one.

Personally, if I bought an EV, putting in an L2 charger at home would be a no brainer, and I'd always carry my L1 with me. Gotta be ready for spontaneous travel, and lessen the chance of ever getting stuck somewhere on the road.

Charging from 20% to 80% should be 44.4 kWh of electricity but given losses I think it comes to around 49kWh of electricity delivered. Common cost for L3 charging around here is $0.51/kWh, so that’s about $25 per charge of 20-80%. $500 would get you roughly 20 of those charging sessions.

In the time I’ve had my GV60, I’ve used 1663kWh of electricity from Electrify America, which is equal to $1620. I use a level 2 charger at home, so most of that is from road trips. I also carry a portable L1/L2 charger with a few different plugs so I can charge from almost anywhere that has an available outlet.

With gaining access to the supercharger network, there really is no fear of being unable to find a place to charge now.

 

[Shark]

I own two ICE vehicles including a 2025 G70. I’ve learned a ton about electric vehicles from the members of this forum. Mostly it has convinced me that I’m not ready to buy an EV.

The vehicle specific problems like charging units and dead 12 volt batteries tell me the technology is underdeveloped and the charging infrastructure is in its infancy and has a long way to go before traveling is simple like it is with an ICE car. For a simple everyday commuter car I think an EV could work for me but that’s not my situation.

I really do admire the tenacity of you guys who work through all of the challenges. You are the pioneers of this technology!

We own a GV60 as well as a Model Y (both Performance models) so predictably we are constantly asked for recommendations. Our answer is always the same. If you will have the ability to meet your charging needs at home the vast majority of the time, by all means go for an EV for all the reasons discussed on this forum. But if you are going to need to charge away from home on a regular basis, EV may not be for you yet unless you are willing to buy a Tesla (recognizing some people won't buy a Tesla under any circumstances right now for political reasons) and the Supercharger network will fit your needs pretty much all the time. No question the GV60 is a far nicer car than the Y, and it better be with the price disparity. ALWAYS prefer to drive the GV60 when feasible. But when we are going to need to charge away from home, we will nearly always take the Y as using Superchargers with a Tesla is so seamless...just back in and plug in, everything is automatic, no apps to be concerned with, and near 100% reliability. And my wife simply refuses to wrestle with the large CCS plugs and thick unwieldy cords at stations like Electrocute America. Also, while it's great we will soon be able to charge the GV60 at SOME Superchargers (more charging alternatives is always a good thing) the key word is SOME as we will not be able to charge the GV60 as older Version 1 and 2 Superchargers. In my area the older Superchargers constitute about half of the total installed base. From the comments I read here and on Kia and Genesis EV forums, sounds like many people are assuming they will be able to charge at ALL superchargers, and they are going to be disappointed. And non Tesla drivers won't have the same seamless charging experience. Finally, not sure if everyone realizes Tesla is charging non Tesla driver higher per kwh prices.

 

[TinsleyC]

Great info, thanks everyone!

 

[berkeleysquirrel]

I have seen the term balanced charger and understand it somehow means shared power source. If I am at a six-charger station, does the balance happen between all six, or are they somehow split into pairs? Does it make parking next to a slow-charging car like a bolt better since they use less load in the balance?

I was able to capture this behavior at EA during my most recent charge session. I couldn't get a pair of chargers to myself so I picked the spot next to a Ford Mustang Mach E that I saw was going at just under 100 kW. It had already been charging for 17 minutes at was at 50%:



I plugged in at 18% and within 3 minutes I was already ramping up above 200 kW:



It was hard to get a wide enough shot but you can zoom in and see here at this moment the Ford was going at 89 kW and I was going at 234 kW after 7 minutes (so the total power being dispensed between the 2 units was 323 kW, pretty close to the quoted 350 kW):



I overtook the Ford 9 minutes into the charging session when we were both at 62% SOC - the Ford had been going for 24 minutes at that point vs 9 minutes for me. I decided to end the session at 81% when the power dropped to single digits for cell rebalancing. Total charge time was 16 minutes.



So again, the PSA is if you can't get a pair of balanced chargers to yourself, pick something slow charging to park next to, ideally a Bolt or Niro/Kona so you can get full charging power (assuming ambient temp is warm enough or you're preconditioned).

 

[Cabbage]

Great report. FWIW, the single digit charging was likely due to thermal throttling because the battery was getting too hot. It's common enough that Bjorn Nyland coined the phase the "Korean siesta". The E-GMP cars will often hit 80% as advertised but then shortly afterward drop to almost zero for about a minute or maybe a bit longer while the car tries to cool the battery. It will then pop back up to around 100 KW or so and continue its slow decline in charge speed. Probably more common if the battery is already warm due to high outside air temperatures or a lot of high speed driving or rapid accelerations.

 

[EVsquatch]

I was able to capture this behavior at EA during my most recent charge session. I couldn't get a pair of chargers to myself so I picked the spot next to a Ford Mustang Mach E that I saw was going at just under 100 kW. It had already been charging for 17 minutes at was at 50%:

View attachment 62699

I plugged in at 18% and within 3 minutes I was already ramping up above 200 kW:

View attachment 62700

It was hard to get a wide enough shot but you can zoom in and see here at this moment the Ford was going at 89 kW and I was going at 234 kW after 7 minutes (so the total power being dispensed between the 2 units was 323 kW, pretty close to the quoted 350 kW):

View attachment 62701

I overtook the Ford 9 minutes into the charging session when we were both at 62% SOC - the Ford had been going for 24 minutes at that point vs 9 minutes for me. I decided to end the session at 81% when the power dropped to single digits for cell rebalancing. Total charge time was 16 minutes.

View attachment 62702

So again, the PSA is if you can't get a pair of balanced chargers to yourself, pick something slow charging to park next to, ideally a Bolt or Niro/Kona so you can get full charging power (assuming ambient temp is warm enough or you're preconditioned).

Great report. Ideally, you will never have the misfortune of encountering a Chevy Bolt or anything like it. Yes, it is better to charge next to one in terms of shared output but who is that better for? Not for the person waiting for that charging spot being used by the Bolt to open up.

They charge miserably slow. They theoretically charge at 50 kWh but they almost NEVER come close to that. Closer to 25. I have sat at EA chargers waiting for Bolts to leave way too many times. EA should limit the charging to 1 hour which would force the slow charging cars to be on their way and not be clogging up the network.

Bolts and anything that charges at 50 kWh or below shouldn't be used for long distance trips IMHO.

 

[Artie Shane]

Bolts and anything that charges at 50 kWh or below shouldn't be used for long distance trips IMHO.

Agreed. We had a Bolt We loved it! But long distance travel was the absolute last thing I would do with it. Also, we never... never used a public charger.

 

[gvjim]

Great report. Ideally, you will never have the misfortune of encountering a Chevy Bolt or anything like it. Yes, it is better to charge next to one in terms of shared output but who is that better for? Not for the person waiting for that charging spot being used by the Bolt to open up.

They charge miserably slow. They theoretically charge at 50 kWh but they almost NEVER come close to that. Closer to 25. I have sat at EA chargers waiting for Bolts to leave way too many times. EA should limit the charging to 1 hour which would force the slow charging cars to be on their way and not be clogging up the network.

Bolts and anything that charges at 50 kWh or below shouldn't be used for long distance trips IMHO.

Don't tell that to Eric at the News Coulomb YouTube channel!

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[EVsquatch]

Don't tell that to Eric at the News Coulomb YouTube channel!

I don't know anything about the person you are referencing but with all due respect to them - those slow charging vehicles have no business in long distance driving situations where they will create enormous congestion hogging up chargers for hours.

I drove (and still drive) a BMW i3s with a 50 kWH max L3 charging speed. It is a perfect commuter and that is what it was intended for. I would never take it on the highway even if I wasn't thinking about everyone else and how long they will wait behind me. I just wouldn't want to wait hours to charge.

In 10 years of driving an EV I have NEVER encountered a Bolt owner NOT trying to charge to 100% which literally takes hours. They have a smaller capacity battery and so owners who are using them for road trips are incentivized to charge to 100% despite the long wait time.

There is a simple fix. 1 hour charge limit on all DC fast chargers. That should get Bolt owners to between 50-65% from 0% which most aren't coming in at 0% so realistically closer to 70%. Surely enough to get to the next charging station.

If that is an inconvenience to Bolt owners a) don't use the slowest charging L3 car for a roadtrip and b) imagine how it feels waiting hours to use a charger that I only need 18-20 minutes on.

 

[Sunshine Daydream]

wow, so much venom for Bolt owners

wasn't expecting that

 

[EVsquatch]

wow, so much venom for Bolt owners

wasn't expecting that

Time is the only commodity you can never earn more of. When I'm sitting behind a Bolt waiting for them to finish charging to 100% knowing that could take 3 hours or more, I am wasting precious time - so yes, I have venom. In over a decade of driving an EV, Chevy Bolts have been involved in the overwhelming number of instances where this exact scenario has played out.

The behavior of Bolt owners who chose to do this is part of the problem. The real culprit is OEMs selling people cars that can only charge at a theoretical maximum speed of 50 kWh knowing those vehicles will single handedly create massive inefficiencies and congestion at DC fast charging networks that are already underdeveloped.