Electronics in car a joke ... Mute,freeze,etc...give up !!!

[Gambler]

I merged your two threads. If you are going to continue to rant, do us a favor and limit it to one thread.

 

[QuantumRift]

Re: I quit... I'm out ..... Bmw here i come !

You're encountering the exact same problem with two different cars...that is, unresolvable audio issues? The odds of that are incredibly low.

You seem convinced that a new BMW will be the solution. I hope it works out that way for you, but the collective experience of numerous ex-BMW owners on this site don't bode well.

Perhaps you should send a written letter to HMA. E-mails are easy to ignore. But if you do, go easy on the caps, man...no one likes to be yelled at.

I think that's called the "Fork Lift" fix.

 

[NOLa]

Re: I quit... I'm out ..... Bmw here i come !

You're encountering the exact same problem with two different cars...that is, unresolvable audio issues? The odds of that are incredibly low.

You seem convinced that a new BMW will be the solution. I hope it works out that way for you, but the collective experience of numerous ex-BMW owners on this site don't bode well.

Perhaps you should send a written letter to HMA. E-mails are easy to ignore. But if you do, go easy on the caps, man...no one likes to be yelled at.

I have to tell you, I had a 2009 that did the same thing within 4 days of purchase back in October 2008. The dealership was witness to it, changed the head unit and eventually I was swapped out of that car with another 2009 Genesis in November 2008 when the problem kept recurring and the car was in the shop all the time.

Within a week, that new car did the exact same thing. It was not funny. What solved it for me was changing the amp, but it seems that this poster has had no luck with that.

I had it happen just once on my 2011 Genesis and never again. I did have one peculiar problem with the 2011 is that many times when I started the car the radio came on even though it was supposed to be off. You couldn't adjust the sound or anything like that until you pressed the button several times and finally shut it off and then on again. I had a loaner 2011 when my Equus was in for service and it did the same thing.

I've had it happen once on my Equus and has never happened again (knock on wood).

For those of you poking fun at the OP, we all have the same system, even the 2012s and this can happen to any one of us at any time. It is quite frustrating and it can render the blue tooth, voice command, CD, DIS knob, or nav system useless...the malfunctions can change with each incident.

To the OP: if you write emails like you post here, they may not take you seriously. You need to demand that a case be opened up on your car by Hyundai and it wouldn't hurt to have the advice of an attorney. Have your service record and document meticulously. Show them steely calmness and let them know you have all the paperwork ready to go.

Good luck to you

 

[tompass]

The AV On/Off issue has been discussed in another thread and does seem to be problem shared by a few of us.

 

[MHT]

Re: I quit... I'm out ..... Bmw here i come !

I have to tell you, I had a 2009 that did the same thing within 4 days of purchase back in October 2008. The dealership was witness to it, changed the head unit and eventually I was swapped out of that car with another 2009 Genesis in November 2008 when the problem kept recurring and the car was in the shop all the time.

Within a week, that new car did the exact same thing. It was not funny. What solved it for me was changing the amp, but it seems that this poster has had no luck with that.

I had it happen just once on my 2011 Genesis and never again. I did have one peculiar problem with the 2011 is that many times when I started the car the radio came on even though it was supposed to be off. You couldn't adjust the sound or anything like that until you pressed the button several times and finally shut it off and then on again. I had a loaner 2011 when my Equus was in for service and it did the same thing.

I've had it happen once on my Equus and has never happened again (knock on wood).

For those of you poking fun at the OP, we all have the same system, even the 2012s and this can happen to any one of us at any time. It is quite frustrating and it can render the blue tooth, voice command, CD, DIS knob, or nav system useless...the malfunctions can change with each incident.

To the OP: if you write emails like you post here, they may not take you seriously. You need to demand that a case be opened up on your car by Hyundai and it wouldn't hurt to have the advice of an attorney. Have your service record and document meticulously. Show them steely calmness and let them know you have all the paperwork ready to go.

Good luck to you

Well Said! I just got the check antenna error message and audio and nav lock out for the fourth time since ownership. This time it was disturbing because I was out of town and was depending on the nav, I had to navigate using the compass. I have contacted both my dealer and Hyundai so that I can go on recorded with all the rest of the owners who have experienced this problem. Right now it does not look like Hyundai has a fix as head unit,amplifier and antenna replacement on some cars has not worked. As I do not want my car experimented on I am waiting for a sure fix. My audio as always come back after the car is turned off for 15min or 45min and turned back on but since this is when I return to get in the car I am really not sure about the time frame. This time the audio was down at start up making things a little more difficult as I needed to get back on the road and could not sit in the car and just wait not knowing how long it was going to take for audio and nav to come back. I tried the reboot that one poster recommended but that did not work.
I too understand the poster frustration.

 

[hwks1]

So, any attorneys on this board that want to put a list together of owners - to gain Hyundai's attention to this matter?

 

[ikeym]

to all those that are just talking about my caps and don't have the same trouble with your cars !!! I'm happy for you that you have not gone through what I have. But my CAPS was to let you guys know how upset I am with a car I truly like and can't get to work right !..... I guess I'm the only one that can't get the car fixed and everybody else has the ipod , nav, audio, work just fine for them. But it is not what expect in a high end car today.

 

[MHT]

to all those that are just talking about my caps and don't have the same trouble with your cars !!! I'm happy for you that you have not gone through what I have. But my CAPS was to let you guys know how upset I am with a car I truly like and can't get to work right !..... I guess I'm the only one that can't get the car fixed and everybody else has the ipod , nav, audio, work just fine for them. But it is not what expect in a high end car today.

If you read all of the post you will see that everyone is not knocking you and some as myself have replied that we have experienced the same problem.
I would hope that you would hang in there as I believe Hyundai will address this issue as I just cannot see them ignoring it as if there will not be serious consequences to the future sales of these cars.
If you are so up set that you really cannot deal with it than I hope that there will be some way that you can get into that BMW but please keep in mind that you can sometimes walk away from one problem only to walk into another. You know what you have with your Genesis and other than the problem you are experiencing you seem to like the car, it may be to your advantage to just hold out a little longer and see how Hyundai handles this.
Good luck and I wish you the best as I for one know what it is like to have a car that you are not happy with. I had a 2007 Lexus LS460 and to make a long story short after eight months of ownership I cut my loses and bailed out and pretty much told Lexus to take a hike.

 

[QuantumRift]

Car electronics, like home electronics can be touchy and subject to interference. In the instances where there are problems, were there any occurrences of nearby lightening strikes (ie EMP or electromagnetic pulses). While we can't say for sure the electronics are "bad", we can try to narrow down things like nearby lightening strikes. And it's possible that such occurrences can occur while the car is sitting in a LOT or on a truck being transported (in which case we'd never really know for sure). I live in SE Arizona and we have a yearly "monsoon season" that subjects us to nearly daily torrential downpours and severe lightening storms or strikes.. ANyways, a few years back, I did not have any Hyundai product but had two vehicles, my 1990 Isuzu pickup truck (fairly brain dead as far as electronics go) and a late model Honda Civic. Anyways, we had a strike right outside the house, on the street pole at the corner of our lot. I was home at the time. The strike occurred with such ferocity that it was like a FLASH and stupendous ROAR. The lights went out in the house. The vehicles in the driveways around is all had their alarms go off.

As for our property, this is what occurred:

Two television sets on that side of the house (toward the front) became permanently gaussed with multi-color rainbow colors. Degaussing did not fix this. Several phone drops (outlets) had fused wiring, and we lost three phones (one cordless set included) and a separate answering machine. The doorbell transformer melted. The kids' room stereos were blown out. The main control board of our garage door opener was destroyed. The main circuit board on the gas furnace was destroyed (because the control wire to the thermostat acted like an antenna which absorbed the EMP). Three CFL bulbs were goobered.

As for the cars...the Isuzu was unaffected other than the alarm screeching. The Honda was not as lucky. The airbags deployed, the stereo went beserk, even though the car was not running. The remote/alarm was rendered useless and the car would not initially even start. All in all, a lot of $$$ damage.

So do not discount that something like this may not have occurred. It's possible that while the electronics in the Genesis are not defective, they may not be shielded very well.

Just a thought.

 

[pusaterkm]

2011 4.6... 7k+ miles. Not one electronic issue. I like the Nav, Bluetooth Phone, Bkup Cam, CD, IPod, and XM. Never user the AM/FM. How many miles are on your cars before these issues start? Mabe I'm still in the honey period of the car. Maybe it is the AM/FM radio that causes this. Has anyone found a common denominator? Like...whenever you switch from FM to CD the system shuts down?

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[MHT]

2011 4.6... 7k+ miles. Not one electronic issue. I like the Nav, Bluetooth Phone, Bkup Cam, CD, IPod, and XM. Never user the AM/FM. How many miles are on your cars before these issues start? Mabe I'm still in the honey period of the car. Maybe it is the AM/FM radio that causes this. Has anyone found a common denominator? Like...whenever you switch from FM to CD the system shuts down?

I think the first time was at 4,000 miles and I have 8,500 miles on my car and it has happened 4 times now. It has happened when using FM,XM and most recently Nav. The audio always returns after the car is shut off for 15 or 45 minutes and than restarted. This problem has nothing to do with lighting strikes.

 

[QuantumRift]

Like I said, it's just a thought. Sometimes you have to look at the big picture before digging down into the dirt. I get paid a very decent salary to find, fix, and solve problems, so I do not discount out of hand any possible root cause of a problem.

Think about it. What possible "magic" could occur in the time the car is shut off until it "miraculously" starts to function again?

[This isn't "Rocket Science"]

Components COOL OFF; it IS very possible the problem is... HEAT RELATED.

There's a LOT of electronics stuffed up in that dashboard. I have no idea what cooling amenities Hyundai engineered into that stuff to provide cooling to said electronics. Probably not much. Amplifiers, computers, etc etc all generate HEAT and improperly COOLED components can malfunction or act WONKY. If we discount such things as INTERFERENCE and other sources of EMP that could damage or affect the electronics, what else is there?? Components that meet their standards are incorporated into the electronics. it's possible that some components operate at the 'edge' of acceptability, but ultimately fail or wonk out when subjected to HEAT.

Remember "Occam's Razor" or even Sherlock Holmes. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. I would direct the dealer or Hyudai to examine heat-caused problems in these electronics.

 

[jchao]

I'll give my two cents on this.
I had the radio issue twice. Both times over the XM contracted time.
I had the car in twice for the steering wheel. Need s to go in again.
I have had the car in for the seat bottom sagging. They replaced the bottom once.
Like every 1st generation, they have issues that hopefully are corrected in the next years model.
I have issues when it continues to occur even with the 2012.
I have never received a letter from Hyundai even to say they are working on correcting the problems.
I have switched dealerships because they state that they are unaware of issues
Or even reoccurring problems. lies.
They all need to be trained. Especially the Service Writers.
I love my car but I just asked to purchase an extended bumper to bumper coverage because of the 3 years 36 thousand miles audio coverage.
A new radio could cost thousands. Who wants to pay that. When time to sell, who would purchase a car with electronic problems or issues.
My two cents worth.
Still love to drive it.

 

[Wolfpack7]

Ditto. Except 15K miles. Occasional (less than once a month) loud pop and then DIS re-set. Great car. Love the Borlas. Want to black it out, fighting the wife on the black rims. Dammit.

 

[bnajack]

Just my 2 cents. . . I think the issue lies in compatibility between Hyundai car electronics and Lexicon components. This hypothesis was first put forth a long time ago by another poster and I agree with it.

For it to be fixed, there has to be very close examination of the two systems' code by the parties. Harmon is probably reluctant to give Hyundai too close a look at their design in fear Hyundai will knock it off.

You know that Hyundai has spent a fortune replacing head units, amps and antennas and would like for the bleeding to stop, not to mention the bad press. I remember the system locking up a few times in the Car & Driver 100K Mile Report and I think I remember other magazines/bloggers having this problem, too.

Hyundai is pushing the image of the Genesis in particular, and the overall brand in general, as quality, value, luxury and performance. This problem does not help. I do not think it will go away until Hyundai replaces the Lexicon system with something else. This is a shame as it sounds and works (when it works) beautifully.

 

[QuantumRift]

Just my 2 cents. . . I think the issue lies in compatibility between Hyundai car electronics and Lexicon components. This hypothesis was first put forth a long time ago by another poster and I agree with it.

Not sure what that could be....interference issues? Or, as I noted, HEAT buildup issues. One thing that that all devices have in common is susceptibility to heat build up.

Its not like a memory problem where you reboot the system and a reset clears things...shut things down and the device starts working again in 15, 30 or 45 minutes... I'd bet a buck that is, in fact, heat related. The components are not able to adequately dissipate heat...the solution might be as simple to solve as installing some sort of cooling fan or duct under the dash to keep things cool....

Shove your home PC, or i-pad, and/or 'droid or i-phone, or whatever in a small box with your GPS and stereo all running. Now, block off the cooling vents...and now put that entire setup in a 100+ degree box of it's own (how hot does the interior of the car get before you get in and turn on the A/C, remember the dash board is black and collects a LOT of solar heat)....how long does it last before any and all of the things stuffed into that box start exhibiting odd behavior? Shut it down and let things cool off for a bit and things will start working fine again (unless you've blocked the cooling ports/vents again). But in some cases, components can fail internally (chips) so that certain functions won't work, or will not work as expected. The system could be permanently degraded due to overheating. If you are driving 17 speakers at volume, that amp probably gets fairly warm under that dash. Maybe they have a wimpy built-in fan, I don't know. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.

 

[MHT]

Not sure what that could be....interference issues? Or, as I noted, HEAT buildup issues. One thing that that all devices have in common is susceptibility to heat build up.

Its not like a memory problem where you reboot the system and a reset clears things...shut things down and the device starts working again in 15, 30 or 45 minutes... I'd bet a buck that is, in fact, heat related. The components are not able to adequately dissipate heat...the solution might be as simple to solve as installing some sort of cooling fan or duct under the dash to keep things cool....

Shove your home PC, or i-pad, and/or 'droid or i-phone, or whatever in a small box with your GPS and stereo all running. Now, block off the cooling vents...and now put that entire setup in a 100+ degree box of it's own (how hot does the interior of the car get before you get in and turn on the A/C, remember the dash board is black and collects a LOT of solar heat)....how long does it last before any and all of the things stuffed into that box start exhibiting odd behavior? Shut it down and let things cool off for a bit and things will start working fine again (unless you've blocked the cooling ports/vents again). But in some cases, components can fail internally (chips) so that certain functions won't work, or will not work as expected. The system could be permanently degraded due to overheating. If you are driving 17 speakers at volume, that amp probably gets fairly warm under that dash. Maybe they have a wimpy built-in fan, I don't know. But if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.

I doubt very seriously if this is heat related as if it were it would happen more frequently. I have also seen it happen after the car has sit for a long period of time giving everything plenty of time to cool off.
In sixteen months of ownership the Audio/Nav have failed four times which means on an average my Audio/Nav have gone down every four months. It is always the same when I park the car and come back later and start it up Audio/Nav is working.
It could very well be some sort of electrical interference or a short, I do not know but you would think the people at Hyundai would figure it out.
To date this issue and the tilt wheel issue still go unresolved and have carried over to the 2012's. I have contacted Hyundai and voiced my concerns. The only thing I and everyone else can do is to wait and see how Hyundai handles this.

 

[QuantumRift]

Re: Electronics in car a joke.. Mute,freeze, etc...give up!

I doubt very seriously if this is heat related as if it were it would happen more frequently. I have also seen it happen after the car has sit for a long period of time giving everything plenty of time to cool off.
In sixteen months of ownership the Audio/Nav have failed four times which means on an average my Audio/Nav have gone down every four months. It is always the same when I park the car and come back later and start it up Audio/Nav is working.
It could very well be some sort of electrical interference or a short, I do not know but you would think the people at Hyundai would figure it out.
To date this issue and the tilt wheel issue still go unresolved and have carried over to the 2012's. I have contacted Hyundai and voiced my concerns. The only thing I and everyone else can do is to wait and see how Hyundai handles this.

IF a new car off the assembly line or in a dealer's showroom malfunctions, I'd buy that bad components are the root cause. However, heat-stressing components will eventually cause failure in components that are borderline to begin with. Believe me, I know. I have a main hubroom in this facility which has 'iffy' air conditioning (yea, the DoD won't put a lot of money into it). So many times over the past year, we get alarms where the temp has shot up in the room to 90, 100, even 110 deg F. We get the techs there to fix things and temps come down, but no after damage is done. We've lost power supplies, boards in Cisco switches, etc but still, they do nothing to replace the A/C. But the damage is not always apparent.

As for a 'short', that's not really a correct term to throw around...shorts cause fuses to blow. Shorts melt wiring, etc...but the only OTHER thing I can stretch a possible failure argument to would be...power. The main source is 12V, of course, but electronic and computer components typically use anywhere from + 3.3V DC, +/- 5V DC, +/-12V DC. The power feeding the different components has to be filtered, and poor filtering can cause component failure due to voitage spikes, etc. Poor filtering can allow spurious signals (or emf) to cause odd behavior (for example, the trucker with that 1000w linear CB amplifier in the lane next to you). But something like that is usually transient.

Very detailed documentation would be needed to track this..such things as:

Does the malfunction occur when the engine is running?
If so, how long after the engine is running?
Does it occur when a specific mode is enabled (XM, FM, etc)
Does it occur on cool days?
Does it occur when the cabin temperature is above 80 deg F?
Does it occur after the +12V cable has been disconnected for several minutes or hours (ie system reset?).
Does it occur when the A/C is operating?
Does it occur after any specific thing happens such as rapid acceleration? Or after the power windows are used? Or the remote locking mechanism is engaged or disengaged?
Does it occur when the seat heaters or cooling is engaged?
Do you have a radar detector installed?
and so on an so forth...DETAILED logs or records of when and how the malfunctions occur are necessary... that way, Hyundai can then look at what is common to all failures in the vehicles. For this to occur in as many vehicles as it does, there IS a common thread. It might be as simple as ONE component.

Replacing head units and other things are just stop-gap measures. Shotgun the problem first then narrow it down. If a head unit is replaced and the problem recurs, then you have to look at what the problem is NOT instead of what it is or could be. The process of block diagramming and flowcharting wold be invaluable with this wonky problem.

So I still submit that it is heat related or heat induced, and add that it may be power related as well. Two good starting points for Hyundai.

 

[MHT]

Re: Electronics in car a joke.. Mute,freeze, etc...give up!

IF a new car off the assembly line or in a dealer's showroom malfunctions, I'd buy that bad components are the root cause. However, heat-stressing components will eventually cause failure in components that are borderline to begin with. Believe me, I know. I have a main hubroom in this facility which has 'iffy' air conditioning (yea, the DoD won't put a lot of money into it). So many times over the past year, we get alarms where the temp has shot up in the room to 90, 100, even 110 deg F. We get the techs there to fix things and temps come down, but no after damage is done. We've lost power supplies, boards in Cisco switches, etc but still, they do nothing to replace the A/C. But the damage is not always apparent.

As for a 'short', that's not really a correct term to throw around...shorts cause fuses to blow. Shorts melt wiring, etc...but the only OTHER thing I can stretch a possible failure argument to would be...power. The main source is 12V, of course, but electronic and computer components typically use anywhere from + 3.3V DC, +/- 5V DC, +/-12V DC. The power feeding the different components has to be filtered, and poor filtering can cause component failure due to voitage spikes, etc. Poor filtering can allow spurious signals (or emf) to cause odd behavior (for example, the trucker with that 1000w linear CB amplifier in the lane next to you). But something like that is usually transient.

Very detailed documentation would be needed to track this..such things as:

Does the malfunction occur when the engine is running?
If so, how long after the engine is running?
Does it occur when a specific mode is enabled (XM, FM, etc)
Does it occur on cool days?
Does it occur when the cabin temperature is above 80 deg F?
Does it occur after the +12V cable has been disconnected for several minutes or hours (ie system reset?).
Does it occur when the A/C is operating?
Does it occur after any specific thing happens such as rapid acceleration? Or after the power windows are used? Or the remote locking mechanism is engaged or disengaged?
Does it occur when the seat heaters or cooling is engaged?
Do you have a radar detector installed?
and so on an so forth...DETAILED logs or records of when and how the malfunctions occur are necessary... that way, Hyundai can then look at what is common to all failures in the vehicles. For this to occur in as many vehicles as it does, there IS a common thread. It might be as simple as ONE component.

Replacing head units and other things are just stop-gap measures. Shotgun the problem first then narrow it down. If a head unit is replaced and the problem recurs, then you have to look at what the problem is NOT instead of what it is or could be. The process of block diagramming and flowcharting wold be invaluable with this wonky problem.

So I still submit that it is heat related or heat induced, and add that it may be power related as well. Two good starting points for Hyundai.

I guess we will know the real answer when Hyundai resolves the problem.

 

[QuantumRift]

Re: Electronics in car a joke.. Mute,freeze, etc...give up!

I guess we will know the real answer when Hyundai resolves the problem.

They won't if they don't look in the right places. I'm not saying they are or they are not....and it is possible that a 'redesign' of the entire system would COST MORE in the long run, based in their (known) failure rates, so they just swap out head units and hope that fixes it....who knows.....I'm hoping I do not have the issue with my 2012 (prem/tech pkg), but only time will tell.