G70 - jack points?

[Volfy]

But how do you swap out the floor jack with the jack stand?

If one of the tools (either the jack or the stand) is using the pinch weld, then the other can't because the weld isn't large enough to accommodate both a floor jack and a jack stand at the same time. This was the issue I was alluding to from the start...

Please re-read my post #17... except below:

I use a 3rd floor jack somewhere on the sub frame where the suspension arms are anchored. Raise it slightly to relieve pressure on one floor jack so I can swap it out for a jack stand. This way, the 3rd jack is only supporting one side of the car, only momentarily, and only for a very short lift, with the car remaining very well supported and balanced. I then repeat the procedure on the other side.

 

[JCtx]

What is exactly weak looking about the sub-frame? Why never use differential?

It's not listed as a central jacking point for a reason. Having said that, if you absolutely need to jack the vehicle from the front, the only way I'd do it is to first remove the belly panel (to look at what you're dealing with), then jack it up with a 2' 4x4 under the jack, then immediately place jack stands at the jacking points (with proper adapters with a slit, to prevent damage to the pinch seams).
You should never lift from the differential since you can damage not only the differential and/or sub-frame, but also cause leaks, and most likely damage the rubber isolators that prevent vibrations transferred to the chassis.

 

[SofiaTheG70]

This is why I want a lift so badly... LOL

 

[1816kg]

That is assuming there is a good way to raise one side with a floor jack and replace it with a jack stand. You said it yourself there is no space to do that (see below quote from your post #16).

In reality, even if you could do that... what you would have is one side on jack stand up WAY high, while you raise the other side from sitting on the ground to just above the same height as the other side, before swapping out the floor jack with a jack stand. I have done that lots of time with other cars, where that was possible. I always have to be careful when rocking the car side-to-side like that, as the high side could slip off the jack stand.

When I said there is no room I was referring to a pinch weld spot. There is no room to lift with with a jack in that spot and replace it with a jack stand.
However, you were referring to a dance swapping between the spot weld to a subframe and back to the spot weld.
I don’t see the need for this tri swap, ihmo. If I could safely jack by the subframe right away and place the jack under the spot weld, I would. Forces affecting the subframe should be the same (it was suggested that subframe is weak) You are saying it’s not possible to do this safely. I will believe you, as I have not tried it on this car, but it worked for me in the past.

 

[1816kg]

It's not listed as a central jacking point for a reason.

It is the case for many vehicles where use of proven “unofficial jacking points” has yielded safe and damage free maintenance and repairs. It is not a reason. This whole discussion is about finding these safe points other than listed in the manual.

Having said that, if you absolutely need to jack the vehicle from the front, the only way I'd do it is to first remove the belly panel (to look at what you're dealing with), then jack it up with a 2' 4x4 under the jack,

So you agree it can be done? You just have to specify where exactly. Otherwise it can be a bad advice.

then immediately place jack stands at the jacking points (with proper adapters with a slit, to prevent damage to the pinch seams).
You should never lift from the differential since you can damage not only the differential and/or sub-frame, but also cause leaks, and most likely damage the rubber isolators that prevent vibrations transferred to the chassis.

It is not always the case on all the cars. You cannot use this blanket statement for all the cases, ihmo.
We are trying to find out if this is possible with our cars. Some who tried have suggested that it is possible without any damage.

 

[Volfy]

We don't have to agree on whether any lifting method a good idea. Some of us might offer alternative method(s); we certainly are not saying they are the only right ways. It's up to the individual owner to decide what they are comfortable doing... with the tools they have at their disposal.

Some of the methods described in this thread I would probably categorize as "if I absolutely have to" or "for emergency use only". Just because some body has done it and gotten away without apparent negative consequence does not necessarily mean it is prudent practice for repeated everyday usage. That's just me.

It is your car, and only you can render your own verdict for what you're willing to do in your own garage.

 

[JCtx]

It's not worth taking a chance; that is my advice. There are several jack stand/jack combinations that allow you to use the pinch welds to both jack and hold the vehicle (google them). But in most instances, a cheap set of Rhino ramps is all you need. I'm not going to explain where you'd need to place a 4x4 under the frame because it's not advisable, plus anybody who knows what he's doing would know . You might be able to lift a vehicle from 'unauthorized' jacking points without damage, but if you happen to damage your vehicle, you'd be out of luck with any warranty coverage. With the differential, the most likely damage is to the rubber isolators; they're not designed to hold the weight of the vehicle. And it's not easy to detect the damage, until your car starts making weird noises. But it's your car .

 

[Volfy]

I saved these pictures from Facebook discussion.
View attachment 50573

I just saw this pic this morning posted on a Kia Stinger Owners group on FB, which reminded me of this thread. Apparently this bolt has come loose, and the other bolt is gone completely. Poster said his Stinger is out-of-warranty.


For those of you not familiar, this is one of the two main bolts that secures the rear differential to the rear subframe. These mounts were designed to hold the differential in place and NOT to support the weight of the entire rear end of the car. Those rubber bushings were precisely tuned to help isolate the movement of the rear diff from the subframe, reducing noise transmitted into the cabin and dampen the shock & vibration sustained by the differential when the full torque of the 3.3T engine is applied. Last thing I want is to drop the weight of the car on those bushings and risk near-certain damage to their structural integrity. You might not "see" any problem right away, but whatever is done will come back to bite you in the rear end (pun intended) sooner or later.

Here is a view of those bushings on my Stinger: Notice the factory bolt alignment marks (yellow grease pencil drawn) are off, because I actually R&R the original open diff with an LSD from a donor G70 6MT I found on ebay.


I actually used my 3rd jack to raise & lower the diff for removal and installation.

My experience tells me 3 things:
1. The versatility and utility of having a 3rd floor jack is invaluable.
2. Said jack should only be used to support the weight of the differential (plus drive shafts) and not much else.
3. You would have to be an utter moron to think it a good idea to jack up the whole rear end of the car on the rear diff.

For reference, here is a clearer view of mounting points on the diffs. Right one is currently in my Stinger.

 

[Husky]

Geez, makes me want to check the torque on my diff mounting bolts

 

[Volfy]

Geez, makes me want to check the torque on my diff mounting bolts

I'm glad that pic reminded me to erase the original grease pencil marks and re-mark them properly. Makes it easy to see at a glance if any of the bolts have possibly come loose.

I did that job back in August when it was hotter than Hades in Houston. I told myself I'd let the assembly settle a bit, retorque the bolts again, then re-mark with grease pencil... as soon as the weather got better. It's now Jan...

BTW, while you're eyeballing for loosened bolts, check the rear suspension adjustment bolts also. They have grease pencil marks too. I did an alignment right after Eibach lowering springs install. Then I went to the track days, and the rears were knocked out of alignment. I should've dome the same due diligence with those adjustment bolts. Lesson learned.

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[1816kg]

I just saw this pic this morning posted on a Kia Stinger Owners group on FB, which reminded me of this thread. Apparently this bolt has come loose, and the other bolt is gone completely. Poster said his Stinger is out-of-warranty.
View attachment 50721

For those of you not familiar, this is one of the two main bolts that secures the rear differential to the rear subframe. These mounts were designed to hold the differential in place and NOT to support the weight of the entire rear end of the car. Those rubber bushings were precisely tuned to help isolate the movement of the rear diff from the subframe, reducing noise transmitted into the cabin and dampen the shock & vibration sustained by the differential when the full torque of the 3.3T engine is applied. Last thing I want is to drop the weight of the car on those bushings and risk near-certain damage to their structural integrity. You might not "see" any problem right away, but whatever is done will come back to bite you in the rear end (pun intended) sooner or later.

Here is a view of those bushings on my Stinger: Notice the factory bolt alignment marks (yellow grease pencil drawn) are off, because I actually R&R the original open diff with an LSD from a donor G70 6MT I found on ebay.
View attachment 50722

I actually used my 3rd jack to raise & lower the diff for removal and installation.
View attachment 50723
My experience tells me 3 things:
1. The versatility and utility of having a 3rd floor jack is invaluable.
2. Said jack should only be used to support the weight of the differential (plus drive shafts) and not much else.
3. You would have to be an utter moron to think it a good idea to jack up the whole rear end of the car on the rear diff.

For reference, here is a clearer view of mounting points on the diffs. Right one is currently in my Stinger.
View attachment 50725

That’s pretty interesting. What was the reason for loose bolts? You have the link?

That’s awesome job on swapping for LSD. This was the reason I backed out of 2019 Stinger as it lacked LSD and I didn’t want to go through this ordeal.

 

[Volfy]

That’s pretty interesting. What was the reason for loose bolts? You have the link?

That’s awesome job on swapping for LSD. This was the reason I backed out of 2019 Stinger as it lacked LSD and I didn’t want to go through this ordeal.

Dunno. It was posted today on KIA Stinger Owners | Facebook which is a private group, so you will have to join to view the post.

Our Stinger was the 2019 base model. I specifically did not want the 3.3T for many reasons, an important one of which was for insurance reasons based on the fact that my son was going to drive it. I didn't want the Premium version of 2.0T because it came with sunroof, which to me is just dead weight, less headroom, which I need for wearing a helmet inside the cabin, and more chances for rain leaks and other problems. So the base model made the most sense.

The only items I really wanted was the Brembo brakes an the LSD, which, at my parts cost of around $1500, my Stinger now has. Took a bit of work but well worth it. Plus they were great father-son projects meant to show my oldest how to see the automotive world in a different light... as a hands-on enthusiast. He stuck with me through it all - at times in 95F Summer heat - and learned a whole lot.

It's a Life lesson to look at every difficulty not as an obstacle to shy away, but as a challenge to overcome. Sometimes, the perfect classroom for that lesson is lying under the car with my son, showing him how the car comes apart and goes back together.

 

[Husky]

Good for you, that is a great bonding opportunity and a way to teach not only mechanical skills but life lessons.

 

[DAYTA]

Just catching up on this thread...that's pretty crazy to hear about those diff mounting bolts coming loose!

@Volfy - appreciate the pics you provided. While I do think utilizing the rear diff as a central jacking point depends on the car (e.g. BMW factory guidance specifically references it as a safe jack point on my 2018 X5), I would definitely agree that for the 3.3T AWD application it is definitely not worth the risk of compromising those rear diff bushings to jack up the car.

Separately, I am now wondering if anyone makes stiffer rear diff bushings (poly or Delrin) for our cars that would improve rear grip/traction. Not that I personally would give up the reduced NVH with factory rubber bushings since the G70 is my DD, but it would be a nice option for the guys who drag or track their cars.

Back on topic, I decided to take advantage of a Harbor Freight sale and bought a second Daytona floor jack - should be arriving tomorrow!

 

[Volfy]

Just catching up on this thread...that's pretty crazy to hear about those diff mounting bolts coming loose!

@Volfy - appreciate the pics you provided. While I do think utilizing the rear diff as a central jacking point depends on the car (e.g. BMW factory guidance specifically references it as a safe jack point on my 2018 X5), I would definitely agree that for the 3.3T AWD application it is definitely not worth the risk of compromising those rear diff bushings to jack up the car.

Separately, I am now wondering if anyone makes stiffer rear diff bushings (poly or Delrin) for our cars that would improve rear grip/traction. Not that I personally would give up the reduced NVH with factory rubber bushings since the G70 is my DD, but it would be a nice option for the guys who drag or track their cars.

Back on topic, I decided to take advantage of a Harbor Freight sale and bought a second Daytona floor jack - should be arriving tomorrow!

Yes, there are aftermarket bushings available for the Stinger/G70. Do a google search for "Kia Stinger differential bushing". It might possibly be of some benefit to guy who have modded some big HP into their 3.3T. I don't see a need for the 2.0T.

I am, however, seriously considering getting aftermarket suspension links. I have a set of rear camber control arms coming, since the Stinger's stock camber adjustment is already maxed out just to keep it at -2.0deg. The G70 is okay, for some reason, even thought they both have the same Eibach lowering springs. If I like the rear camber links, I might replace the other 3 control arms as well. The front suspension only has a single bushing that has an aftermarket replacement. It's one that is quite soft and wobbles around a lot. Great for cabin NVH isolation, but not good for precision suspension control. Stinger/G70 handling has a good bit of vagueness to it near the limits, and I don't doubt all these soft wobbly rubber bushings are to blame, at least partially.

You'll like the second Daytona floor jack. I couldn't possibly imagine not having two of them in my garage. Makes jacking up the car such a non-event.

 

[blnewto]

Old thread but worth a revisit
Good info here and just wanted to add one other tidbit~
If you just use only hydraulic jacks and need to work under your car PLEASE have another safety backup just in case. The chance of a hydraulic leak/fail is minimal but there are many cases of this happening. I have a bunch of old truck tires that are collecting dust on my property and I always shove a couple under the vehicle in the area I have to work. It really is a pain trying to safely jack a vehicle in the limited spots they have and still trying to swap a jack stand or try to find another "safe" spot. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Volfy]

Or you could use something like this: Jack Rod


I've just been using pieces of 2x4 to do essentially the same thing, but I'm gonna weld up something similar to this over the Holidays.

 

[blnewto]

Or you could use something like this: Jack Rod

View attachment 56759
I've just been using pieces of 2x4 to do essentially the same thing, but I'm gonna weld up something similar to this over the Holidays.

That's pretty damn awesome, I'll be doing the same, thanks for the share!

 

[Volfy]

That's pretty damn awesome, I'll be doing the same, thanks for the share!

You are quite welcome. This is another one of those "why didn't anybody make this already?" things. It just makes perfect sense. IMO, I would trust my car sitting on multiple heavy duty floor jacks on these "jack rods" more than even the most HD jack stands I have. The foot print is far wider, and the contact pad on the floor jack is more secure/stable. Not to mention the convenience of it.

 

[blnewto]

You are quite welcome. This is another one of those "why didn't anybody make this already?" things. It just makes perfect sense. IMO, I would trust my car sitting on multiple heavy duty floor jacks on these "jack rods" more than even the most HD jack stands I have. The foot print is far wider, and the contact pad on the floor jack is more secure/stable. Not to mention the convenience of it.

True, jack stands can sometimes be more dangerous when placed in some sketchy spots and some have had bad welds causing some base splitting, and those locking teeth can sometimes not catch 100%. Really like that jack support, and combined w/ my DIY plywood ramps it would feel very safe under there