GDI Gas Direct Injection

R-Spectable

Registered Member
92
0
6
NC
That probably just includes pouring a bottle of fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank, which doesn't really work well for cleaning the intake side of the valves on GDI engines.
I think it's a bit more involved than pouring a bottle of cleaner into the gas tank. There's a reason they charge around $120 for the service.
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I think it's a bit more involved than pouring a bottle of cleaner into the gas tank. There's a reason they charge around $120 for the service.
I wouldn't put it past them to just add the fuel injector cleaner to the gas and charge you $120.
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
My math failure.......I'm not sure if I could tell if it was 10%, let alone 1.4%
There are a lot of members who install (or think about installing) things like a K&N air filter assembly for less than 1.4% gain. That includes a lot of other add-ons like after market exhaust systems that people do.
 

shagnat

Registered Member
1,014
2
38
I have no doubts a dealer wouldn't charge $120 for a can of injector cleaner.... none at all. Have seen it first hand when in the "car" business for over 11 years.
 

kn5owa

Sustaining Member
1,206
7
38
There's a long precedent for this sort of thing - BG products is one that comes to mind - There was a time when you had to fight the garages to head off a BG ripoff.

And, before that, there was the STP scam (for the older crowd that still remembers).

There will always be a wide share of the population that reveres the idea of "magic in a bottle" and is willing to pay a bunch for it.
______________________________
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
133
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
There will always be a wide share of the population that reveres the idea of "magic in a bottle" and is willing to pay a bunch for it.
I don't think that Chevron (or rebranded as Hyundai) Fuel Injector Cleaner is a scam, but paying $120 for a tech to pour a bottle of it in the gas tank is a scam.

It may be questionable for GDI engines, but for regular fuel injectors, it does work.
 

Milano

Registered Member
43
3
8
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
There's a long precedent for this sort of thing - BG products is one that comes to mind - There was a time when you had to fight the garages to head off a BG ripoff.

And, before that, there was the STP scam (for the older crowd that still remembers).

There will always be a wide share of the population that reveres the idea of "magic in a bottle" and is willing to pay a bunch for it.
I like the BG products, use 44k in all my vehicles as well as 109 on occasion. Not so sure I'd pay for an Induction Service, tho
 

QuantumRift

Been here awhile...
828
27
28
Central OH
Since the fuel is injected directly in the combustion chamber, NO amount of fuel additives, cleaning agents, etc will ever touch the valves. The injectors will stay cleaner but the valves will not. The deposits build up as a by-product of blowby crankcase gases being sent back into the intake via the PCV system. Crankcase gases have vaporized oil that condenses and collects on the insides of the intake ducting, intake plenum, manifold and intake valves. Preventing those vapors from condensing on the components is key to stopping this type of deposit build up on the intake valves.

The installation of a quality oil catch can can, and maintaining it, will aid tremendously in this effort. As for knowing what, if any, deposits are actually built up on your valves, the BEST method for determining that is to actually look...either by directly removing the intake components or using a remote camera probe. Only then can you determine what course to take.

As for cleaning, there are several methods:

An intake cleaning like "BG" services or dealer offered services. They can work, but they can be expensive (over $100).

Self-clean every 10K miles or so with products as SeaFoam, etc. The drawback here is that unless you know the amount of deposits on the valves, you won't really know if it actually worked. I have quickly become a fan of CRC intake/turbo cleaner as I just used it on my vehicle as a 'test'. I have used SeaFoam and other products on other conventionally combusted carts I have and had good results. But I have switched to CRC per results and video below.

Removal of intake components and walnut-shell blasting, if necessary. It does the job, can be somewhat time consuming, and needs the right tools. You also must be very clean and ensure to block off valves you are not cleaning to prevent shells from entering cylinders. I have no experience with soda blasting these deposits. So if you are comfortable wrenching on your vehicle, this would be a way to do it.

What sold me on CRS was this video. It does appear that CRC is formulated to dissolve carbon deposits and it does apparently work quite well. I can get a can (on sale) for around $10 and then get another $1 off military discount at O'Reilly, AutoZone, etc...or purchase on AMazon.

This approach can cost less but also be time consuming, and does not take specialized tools (Like a blaster, walnut shells, masks, gear, etc) other than the cleaning agent, a couple of old toothbrushes, and a couple of picks. Though I did just use the intake method with CRC a few days ago, and I am checking mpg etc, I expect I will soon just open up the plenum and manifold and do it this way:


Once it is clean, and a catch can is installed, I believe that carbon intake valve deposits will be pretty much under control. And 'cleaning' will only be required on a preventative basis. If you, like me, have a 6 cyl 3.8, and you are going to do plug replacement, that would be a good time to take it a step further and evaluate your intake valves for deposits and clean them at that time as you'll have the plenum off do do the plugs. And it's easier to clean if you, in fact, remove the plugs.
 

Milano

Registered Member
43
3
8
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
Since the fuel is injected directly in the combustion chamber, NO amount of fuel additives, cleaning agents, etc will ever touch the valves. The injectors will stay cleaner but the valves will not. The deposits build up as a by-product of blowby crankcase gases being sent back into the intake via the PCV system. Crankcase gases have vaporized oil that condenses and collects on the insides of the intake ducting, intake plenum, manifold and intake valves. Preventing those vapors from condensing on the components is key to stopping this type of deposit build up on the intake valves.

The installation of a quality oil catch can can, and maintaining it, will aid tremendously in this effort. As for knowing what, if any, deposits are actually built up on your valves, the BEST method for determining that is to actually look...either by directly removing the intake components or using a remote camera probe. Only then can you determine what course to take.

As for cleaning, there are several methods:

An intake cleaning like "BG" services or dealer offered services. They can work, but they can be expensive (over $100).

Self-clean every 10K miles or so with products as SeaFoam, etc. The drawback here is that unless you know the amount of deposits on the valves, you won't really know if it actually worked. I have quickly become a fan of CRC intake/turbo cleaner as I just used it on my vehicle as a 'test'. I have used SeaFoam and other products on other conventionally combusted carts I have and had good results. But I have switched to CRC per results and video below.

Removal of intake components and walnut-shell blasting, if necessary. It does the job, can be somewhat time consuming, and needs the right tools. You also must be very clean and ensure to block off valves you are not cleaning to prevent shells from entering cylinders. I have no experience with soda blasting these deposits. So if you are comfortable wrenching on your vehicle, this would be a way to do it.

What sold me on CRS was this video. It does appear that CRC is formulated to dissolve carbon deposits and it does apparently work quite well. I can get a can (on sale) for around $10 and then get another $1 off military discount at O'Reilly, AutoZone, etc...or purchase on AMazon.

This approach can cost less but also be time consuming, and does not take specialized tools (Like a blaster, walnut shells, masks, gear, etc) other than the cleaning agent, a couple of old toothbrushes, and a couple of picks. Though I did just use the intake method with CRC a few days ago, and I am checking mpg etc, I expect I will soon just open up the plenum and manifold and do it this way:


Once it is clean, and a catch can is installed, I believe that carbon intake valve deposits will be pretty much under control. And 'cleaning' will only be required on a preventative basis. If you, like me, have a 6 cyl 3.8, and you are going to do plug replacement, that would be a good time to take it a step further and evaluate your intake valves for deposits and clean them at that time as you'll have the plenum off do do the plugs. And it's easier to clean if you, in fact, remove the plugs.
Have you added a catch can? I'm curious about the warranty and the catch can installation? Never owned a car with a warranty before so I never worried about one until now!
 

QuantumRift

Been here awhile...
828
27
28
Central OH
Unfortunately, it's been one of those "Get Around To It projects..I will, soon.

As for warranty, I cannot foresee any issue that would arise from having a catch can installed. None. I've researched it and researched it. And the only issues I could possibly see is an area where vehicle emissions inspections are mandatory, like CA, it would best to REMOVE the catch can before getting emissions inspection. And put it back on afterwards. All the catch can does is catch the oil vapor in the crankcase gases as they go back into the intake, which, makes your intake cleaner....if you have anything done at the dealer, just remove it. Or find out on your own by calling around to Hyunda service centers....

Have you added a catch can? I'm curious about the warranty and the catch can installation? Never owned a car with a warranty before so I never worried about one until now!
 

Gunkk

Registered Member
SUSTAINING MEMBER
1,325
41
48
Florida
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Not sure about HMA, but GM will void the engine warranty if they see a catch can on the car.

It's completely stupid and without merit, but they'll do it.
 

Ambush

Registered Member
446
13
18
Carolinas
I bought 20 oz bottles at Amazon - and received 12 oz. bottles.

Costco is currently selling 6 packs of 16 oz bottles with a coupon of $7 off.

But, they all recommend a treatment ratio of 1 oz per gal. Go figure - follow the money trail.
Gumout Regane System cleaner seems to have the solution for GDI + Ethanol gas cleaning. I used to use Techron per the SIMILAR bottle that was at the stealership. I did not see a difference in gas mileage or the BLACK soot in the rear.
Gumout has PEA which is like a ethanol cleaner for our GDI engines. I know some will say, Gumout? That stuff sux! It is the only company that I have seen that targets ethanol cleaning for engines (GDI).

Just my $.25 cents
______________________________
 

OUsig

Been here awhile...
234
28
28
McKinney TX
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I use seafoam through the vacuum line (one attached to the intake purge valve) that goes right into the top of the intake manifold and also I will use the spray after removing the air intake tubes (it takes just a few minutes) that way I can clean the throttle body plate. Anyway, I do this every 5-10k miles mainly because it is fun and because I want to keep the engine as "clean" as possible. I am getting close to 100k miles and the engine idles and runs good as new.

Regarding the power difference between 87 and 93 octane. I am fairly certain I can tell a difference in throttle response and torque. With that being said, I normally run top tier 87 octane as I dont feel like paying the extra every tank. I will occasionally add in a couple tanks of Shell 93.
 

RemyBluePearl

Registered Member
108
92
28
SoCal
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I use seafoam through the vacuum line (one attached to the intake purge valve) that goes right into the top of the intake manifold and also I will use the spray after removing the air intake tubes (it takes just a few minutes) that way I can clean the throttle body plate. Anyway, I do this every 5-10k miles mainly because it is fun and because I want to keep the engine as "clean" as possible. I am getting close to 100k miles and the engine idles and runs good as new.

Regarding the power difference between 87 and 93 octane. I am fairly certain I can tell a difference in throttle response and torque. With that being said, I normally run top tier 87 octane as I dont feel like paying the extra every tank. I will occasionally add in a couple tanks of Shell 93.
I would like to do this since I have 64,000 miles on my 2012 3.8 but yet I’m not mechanically savvy so if you can provide pictures or alil more in depth detail explanation that would be great. Thank you for your time
 
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