Genesis as family car

[Sal Collaziano]

I guess the mint condition Phaetons are still selling for a lot. Great car.....

As for the luxury division - the one area where I see this as very viable is service - before and after the sale.. There will be extremely cheap cars in the same showroom as expensive cars and the class of people will be very diverse compared to most cases in high-end luxury dealerships.

 

[gentau]

I'm just curious, is there any reason you prefer a supercharger to a turbocharger?

My guess would be instant boost compared to turbo lag.

I don't necessarily prefer one over the other in all cases. IMO, it really depends upon the application. I tend to lean toward the supercharger in cases where the car carries a significant weight handicap; because the supercharger provides more instantaneous low end torque. (Genesis X hit that nail on the head.) At 4006 lbs the Genesis is no flyweight and would benefit from early boost with that much bulk. The Tau V8 is a dual OHC design and superchargers have been proven to work very well with that setup on the 4.6 liter Mustangs. Apparently, Hyundai agrees with me; because I have read that they are quietly developing a supercharger for possible use on the Tau V8 in the future. Another reason I specifically mentioned supercharger is that I am an "old school" racer and nothing makes my heart pound quite like the whine of a blower at full boost.

In the case of the lighter, V6 powered Genesis Coupe, I might very well opt for twin turbochargers over the supercharger.

 

[Michael_S]

My guess would be instant boost compared to turbo lag.

That used to be a fair point, but not so much any more.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117669#10

The BMW 335 has a twin turbocharged 3.0 liter inline six, that has 300 pound feet of torque from 1,400 RPM to 5000 RPM.

The 335 coupe has a 4.06 first gear, 3.08 final drive ratio, and 225/45R17 wheels. So the total division from engine to wheels in first gear is by 14.168, and the wheel circumference is ( ( ( (225 mm * 0.45 blackwall thickness * 2 blackwalls (top and bottom) ) / 25.4 mm per inch ) + 17 inch wheels ) * Pi ) / 12 inches per foot = 6.538 feet around.

So at 1400 RPM, the wheels are spinning 98.81 times per minute. So 98.81 times per minute times 60 minutes in an hour times 6.538 feet traveled per 360 degree wheel turn divided by 5280 feet per mile = 7.34 miles per hour.

The twin turbo BMW 335 has its maximum 300 pound feet of torque on tap once the car is moving faster than 7.34 miles per hour.

Ergo, turbo lag is no longer an issue on many modern vehicles, unless your 0-6 mph time is especially important to you.
QED
(Anyone care to guess my college major? )

 

[Sal Collaziano]

(Anyone care to guess my college major? )

Yeeaahhh, I wasn't trying to figure any of that out.

 

[Michael_S]

Yeeaahhh, I wasn't trying to figure any of that out.

When I was in college, I really loved my Math major but it drove me crazy that my professors taught it so poorly.

I thought, over and over again, "This isn't that complicated, you just don't explain it very well!"

Then I started trying to tutor people, and I learned that I'm just as bad as my professors.

Never be intimidated by math, physics, or other sciences. At some level, it's just a very big collection of some very simple ideas all mixed together. The hard part is finding someone who can explain it well. Once you get that, understanding it is often easy.

 

[Disaster]

I intend to replace the V8 MB400E with the Genesis. Why would I pay MSRP $68730 for a comparable MB550?
- Quality? Sorry, Hyundai quality is currently much better than MB.
- Warranty? Nope, same story.
- Safety? MB has great reputation here but so does Hyundai and the
Genesis has all the latest safety technology.
- Design-Genesis is subjectively better looking than the 550E.
- Ride? For me that is THE question.
- Resale? TBD but only Lexus really shines here. Hyundai higher than US
brand cars.
- Prestige? Full size Luxury car buyers typically are a bit older and obviously have had enough success to play in this league. They probably got there by making logical vs. emotional decisions. I will be driving the car and not the neighbor or some guy I will never meet. The people I know and want to impress will be impressed once they get in the car. They know I've always had Mercedes and Lexus before. They will be impressed that I know value. People with money have it because they do not waste it unncessarily.

This whole arguement about needing a prestige brand name heritage is lame. It was used by the auto industry and magazines prior to the Acura launch. It reached fever pitch with the Lexus launch and lingered for a few years with the underwhelming response to the Infiniti Q45. Marque luxury brands such as Jaguar have proven a name means nothing if the cars stink. Infiniti has redefined itself with high quality cars that bundle extravegant luxury, near German handling and competitive pricing. I have to believe that Hyundai has benchmarked Infiniti and Lexus and has learned this lesson. Compare the M45 interior to the Genesis.

VW failed with the Phaeton because they came in at the same price point and actually higher than some competition....

Another characteristic of the luxury car buyer is that many are entreprenuers that do not want to have the same car as everybody else. The "prestige " comes from having a unique car. A v8 Genesis fits the mold. They are sick of everyone having a MB or BMW now....

Great points. I'm enjoying the uniqueness of the Genesis. Of course, if it stays too unique, that means it isn't selling!

IMHO, it a lot of it hinges on how well Hyundai can differentiate the Genesis experience from the Hyundai one. People who pay for cars in this price range expect a higher level of service...free loaners and shuttle rides from the dealership. Even if Hyundai doesn't introduce a "new" brand and special dealerships, they should introduce unique logos and branding for the vehicles...the Korean Genesis logos would work just fine. Even Mercedes, who already has a expensive image does this. Witness their Mayback series.

As far as resale is concerned, it all depends on how you look at it. Looking at resale in terms of percent is only useful with cars of equal starting cost. However equivalent Mercedes and BMW's cost 30% more than the Genesis, so they would have to hold a much higher percentage of their resale in order to have the same depreciation cost. For example, take a $40K car vs. a $60K car. If the $60K car is worth and depreciates 20% (about right for the first year.) You lose $12K. The $40K car would have to depreciate 30% to cost the same. Now factor in the extra insurance and taxes on a more expensive car and the financials tilt even more in the Genesis's favor. Compared to the Germans there is also the lower service costs and longer warranty. Once the warranty expires people get some nasty shocks when getting things fixed on their German cars. You can never make an argument that the more expensive car would actually cost you less in the long run...quite the opposite is true.

I don't expect anyone to switch from BMW, Mercedes or Lexus to Hyundai. I doubt that'll happen enough to even be a statistic. But, it'll get people thinking. The Genesis will steal sales from Toyota, Honda and Nissan without a doubt. Maybe after a few years of the Genesis, if it succeeds, people will start toying with the idea of moving away from the expensive German luxury sedans. Mainly retirees who like the excellent warranty...

Based on the postings in this board I disagree. I read a lot of posts from people that moved from Mercedes and BMW's, for example. We moved from Volvo. Hyundai has had some impressive conquest sales but if they can't back it up with impeccable service, they will lose some of those customers, who are used to being pampered, back to their luxury dealerships. Our Volvo dealership has a beautiful sitting area, shuttles us to and from home, and has one of those fancy coffee making machines.

I don't know if this discussion would interest anyone, but I would be looking at the Genesis as a family vehicle.

My criteria would be, from most important to least important: space, crash safety and crash avoidance, comfort, economy, reliability, sportiness.

Is anyone else considering the Genesis mainly as a family sedan?

We just replaced our Volvo XC70 with the Genesis. We cross shopped other cars in the same price range, Volvo S80, Ford Taurus, and Buick Lacrosse. The Genesis had all the latest safety features and more backseat leg and head room than any of the others (important when your boys are over 6 foot tall.) The only thing the Genesis could have used was a bit more width (for seating 3 more comfortably) and available AWD (though we got tired of paying the AWD efficiency penalty at the gas pump...which is why we were moving from the AWD XC70 to the S80.)