Genesis suspension - One more kick at the can

[JOwest]

Many Genesis owners complained about rough rides yet many other owners claim theirs ride perfectly. Obviously, ride quality is a subjective thing. What is perfect maybe too rough for others, and vice versa.

I have decided to do a comparison test with three vehicles:
2004 Audi A6 with the 2.7 bitubo motor and sport tuned suspension – known to provide good rides and handling
2002 Subaru WRX – known for hash rides but very good handling
2009 Genesis 4.6 – ride qualities to be determined

I drove the three vehicles over the same stretch of roads.
On smooth road surface:
Audi A6 – Quiet and smooth
WRX – noisy and reasonable smooth
Genesis – Very quiet and smooth

On rough pavement:
Audi A6 – Quiet and well controlled damping
WRX – Noisy and choppy
Genesis – Low “thomping” noise and choppy

On broken pavement and pot holes:
Audi A6 – Low “thomping” noise and well damped heaving motion
WRX – loud “thomping” noise and very choppy and bouncy
Genesis – loud “thomping” noise and very choppy and bouncy

Sensitivity to road level:
Audi A6 – track straight regardless road surface sloping to left or right
WRX – track straight regardless road surface sloping to left or right
Genesis – Pull to the side with the lower surface. More so if the left side of the road is lower than the right side.

Cornering:
Audi A6 – Minimal body roll
WRX – Fait amount of body roll
Genesis – Minimal body roll

Summary – On smooth road the Genesis rides as well as any car. However, on rough roads the Genesis behave more like a car with very short wheelbase (like the WRX). Perhaps, the suspension bushing is too “hard” and it transmits the noise from impacts directly to the cabin and seats. The shock absorbers damping may need to be soften a bit especially on initial impact.

Note – The test Genesis is the V8 version. My dealer wouldn’t let me borrow a V6 to do the test. The V8 suspension tuning maybe more “firm” than the V6 version to compensate for the extra weight. Also, the front anti roll bar is thicker this may contribute to the rougher ride. This may also explain many V6 owners seem to be happier with their ride quality.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Very interesting. Thank you for spending time looking into this. I do believe the V6 owners have a softer ride than V8 owners. Let's see how this discussion plays out...

 

[Jimbo46]

For all of the things that I do do like about my 4.8, I must admit I think the ride is harsh on rough roads and I do think there is an extra noise on "washboard" surfaces. That extra noise is like a loose/worn bushing or an exhaust pipe bumping on something with the right type of bump or series of bumps. In any case, I went to the salesman and he immediately went with me and we drove the car down the street to the "test track" used by the Lexus dealer to try to find rattles perceived and real reported by owners. We both heard what am am describing in my 4.6 and he thought it was coming from the center to rear of the car. We took everything out of the trunk and looked at and moved the tool caddy and checked the spare. We then drove it over the frozen rough dirt area again and it seemed different, but still there. Then we went back to the dealership and got a new 3.8 (they didn't have another 4.6) and low and behold it did exactly the same thing. He thought we may be hearing something like an exhaust hanger or the like. Personally, having driven and redriven both, I think the rough road ride of the 3.8 and the 4.6 are very similar and I am not nuts about it. Maybe different tires would help, but I doubt it. I suspect this will be the thing I like least about the Genesis. By the way, my LS430 had a similar noise that the Lexus dealer tried to find and fix at great expense and ended up concluding was the nature of the beast. At least we all saved at least 20K for the nature of this beast. To quote a service tech who once came to the house to fix something for my wife "noth'ns poyfect lady"!! Except for this, the Genesis is a fun ride!!!!

 

[Duaine]

The ride of my 4.6 Genesis on rough roads is the only slight complaint I have of the car. I almost wished they would have given everyone the choice between the softer Korean version suspension or the stiffer U.S. Version. Better yet I wished there was button you could push to select either a firm or soft ride.Hyundai should try and please everyone.Does anyone know if Hyundai is getting feedback on this one area of concern by some? If so can the current suspension be improved or will it only be done with a new model year?

 

[ConceptVBS]

There are always the aftermarket parts. (Dampers, springs, coilovers)

 

[crepen]

Great Post JOwest,

I find that my 3.8l rides just fine over potholes, railway tracks, and routine poor pavement - for example, similar to a Genesis G35, maybe a bit smoother over potholes, and much, much better than a BMW 328xi with the run-flat tires.

The 328xi with run-flats was UNBELIEVABLY bad over potholes, of which we have a few here in Canada . Every little pothole at speed felt like it would bounce the fillings out of your teeth. Absolutely Brutal.

But in the very worst situations (heaved, rolling potholed construction zones around here are the worst) the Genesis goes absolutely berserk - feels like it's about to flip over - worse than any other car I've ever driven. I have not experienced the expansion joint resonance others have.

I also concur that what I thought was an alignment issue (pull to the left) appears to be extreme sensitivity to the camber or crown of the road.

Overall, I think the Genny has been biased to perform it's best in "normal" situations, maybe to the extent of being really bad when things get rougher than normal.

cmr

 

[thomaspf]

I think at least for the 4.6 we are looking at a design flaw not a 1% outlyer that people who hit it should go and try to address with aftermarket parts. I am afraid this is a lot more than just an inconvenience.

A car that reproducably gets into a bucking state by driving 60 mph on a regular freeway is probably not in line with whatever regulations apply here? I don't want to play science experiments with the lives of my family, I want a safe and reliable car!

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Jimbo46]

"a bucking state by driving 60 mph on a regular freeway"

IMHO, I do believe this is a dramatic overstatement of the issue! I have yet to experience anything even close to an unsafe feeling under any condition with my 4.8 Genesis.

 

[Sonata2009]

I agree. I just spent 2400 miles on I-85/I-65/I-10 and back at 65-75 MPH without really ANY issues with ride. Maybe these are just in GREAT shape, but . . .

yeah, probably not . . .

 

[thomaspf]

Are you living anywhere close to Seattle? I show you and you should post whatever you feel is right after that experience.


Cheers

Thomas

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[Calvin]

I do agree that ride quality is a subjective thing. When I compare my 4.6 to my WRX STI there is no comparison. My Suby is much stiffer and harsher in all concerns over the 4.6. One thing that has really surprised me is on a certain stretch of rough tight cornering road I drive regularly the Suby tends to skip thru the corner while the 4.6 tracks right thru. I expected the 4.6 to skip more, but to not skip at all was a pleasent surprise! I guess I need to find some really bad roads to push the 4.6 and see what happens.

 

[tripod]

I have a V8 and I think its a design flaw it just dos not track right wont hold a stright line.

 

[thomaspf]

I have no problem with tracking and I really like the ride and suspension overall.

There just happen to be road conditions where I live that seem to trigger this resonance problem.

As a next step I will probably show this to the service manager of my dealership and see whether they can esacalate this issue.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[GS300rich]

thanks for the great write up

 

[daviderle]

I have thrown my Genesis into some rather sharp turns and drove over many uneven road surfaces and have yet to ‘feel’ anything close to “resonance” issue some are describing (although I have only done 1100 miles)...

In all honesty, I can’t help thinking that if this type of suspension is good enough for MB, surly a more refined version can do the job for that other “Asian automobile manufacturer”…

”The described principle has been industrialized by ZF Sachs, the Power train and Suspension Component division of ZF Friedrichshafen AG, and is used as the standard suspension system in the new Mercedes C Class (there referred to as “Agility Control&#8221. The unique feature of these dampers can be found inside the piston rods. An additional oil reservoir with a shifting piston controls the volume and flow speed of the hydraulic oil through the piston valve. For smaller movements, such as bumps on the road, the oil flows first into the oil reservoir, thus lowering the damping force. In the case of rough roads or roll motion due to driving in curves and corresponding greater movement of the damper, the shifting piston closes the reservoir and makes the complete damping force available.

A different Sensitive Damping Control design is about to go into mass production for an Asian automobile manufacturer. In this design, an additional valve is placed on the piston rod which is suspended between springs and, depending on the tuning philosophy, has a certain amount of free play. For minor stimulations, only the standard valve is actuated, for major stimulations, the damping forces of both valves are added. With the additional valve characteristic (pistons with spring-loaded valve disks and bypasses) as well as the definition of the free play, this solution means that the range, in which the damper switches from soft to hard, is freely adjustable to a very large extent.”

http://www.zf-mediacenter.de/sea_view_v2.php?id=446&lang=e&pRubB=&pos=50

"The multilink front and rear suspension combines with a shock-absorber system from ZF Sachs called amplitude-selective damping, which the Genesis shares with the Mercedes C-Class. The all-hydraulic system decreases damping over minor "stimulations" like road imperfections, but increases damping during major loading, as in hard cornering."

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2008-09/40000-hyundai-luxuriating-2009-genesis-sedan


======
V8 Tech Tan/Cashmere
2000 TrasAM (Sold)
2004 Isuzu Axiom
2006 Sonata V6 SE

 

[thomaspf]

Throwing some expensive parts together does not automatically make for a well tuned suspension.

I applaud the effort and I am in awe about the value but
I believe something is not quite right for the US adapted version.

I am not sure we will get much further on this thread. There are people who have experienced this and there are those which have not. There is also psychology at play where you really want to believe you have made a good purchase and start changing your judgement to make that true.

Time will tell ....

Cheers

Thomas

 

[rmwweb]

I have to jump into this debate as one of the less than satisfied owners. Like most of the people, I love just about everything about the Genesis; but the suspension is becoming an almost unbearable problem. I live in Ontario, Canada and due to our winter's the roads tend to have more patching and cracks that get repaired with "tar strips". There is a certain stretch of road that I take on my way to the office, that is just about unbearable in the Genesis. I've been driving on that road for the past four years and it never bothered me at all in my last car ( 99 Acura TL). The problem is actually at low speeds (10 - 20 mph) and is very similar to how JoWest describes the ride in his summary in the first post on this thread. His comment about the car feeling like a car with a very short wheelbase is spot on. I thought I was crazy thinking this way since the Genesis has a fairly long wheelbase, but that is exactly the right description. For me there is the initial dip when I hit a low spot followed almost immediately by a very harsh reaction or thump or sometimes both. It seems to get transmitted directly to my seat. I've actually had to change my route to work because I came to the realization that driving this stretch of road was causing me to arrive at work with a headache.

About a month ago I drove from Ottawa to Montreal on HWY 417. There are some pretty rough stretches on this road for any car to handle but it's never been an issue until I drove it in my Genesis. I actually found myself experiencing signs of motion sickness. To put this into perspective, I've spent the better part of a 33 year career as a pilot flying research, reconnaissance and survey missions at altitudes from 300 ft to 35,000 ft, so I'm not unfamiliar with rough rides.

On a bit of a good news/bad news twist, I have discovered that changing tires can help quite a bit with some of the thumping problem. I recently put snow tires on (17" rims with the 225R55 tires) to replace the stock 18" 235R50 Dunlop tires that come with the tech package V6. The bad news (in my opinion) is that putting snow tires on should not normally improve the ride on dry roads, traction yes, handling sure, but not the ride. I for one will be fighting very hard with Hyundai and my dealer to have new tires put on the car next spring at their expense. I believe better tires will help significantly.

With respect to the tracking issue raised here, I too was experiencing the problem of the car pulling left or right depending on the camber of the road. This problem was also very much reduced by putting the snow tires on.

The one thing I can't comprehend is the wildly different experiences people are having with the suspension. I can't imagine anyone finding the ride (in MY Genesis on the roads in my area) a pleasant experience. I know it's a subjective thing to a degree but...

My wife and I usually drive south for a winter break and there is a stretch of Interstate (I believe it's on I95) that has expansion joints that were quite annoying in my previous cars (99 Acura TL and 93 Camry) but that's all it was. With the reports here of resonance being induced by expansion joints I'm no longer looking forward to our trip in January. That's a problem since one of the main reasons for getting the Genesis was for the two road trips we take each year.

To sum it up, yes I love my Genesis but if nothing is done to correct the suspension issues, I'll be looking for a way out of my lease because there is no way I'm living with the status quo for four years.

RW
3.8 V6 with tech package

 

[Jimbo46]

What I find really interesting that I seem to be in the minority of folks who find the sound component of the suspension almost more annoying than the "feel" issues. My 4.8 tracks well, does not pull, handles sharp drops in country roads, and corners very well. I am going to try varying the tire pressure just for kicks and may consider a change in tires.

It is worth noting that my LS430 came with Dunlop tires installed and they were never anything to brag about. When I replaced them with Michelins the car handled and rode much better.

 

[daviderle]

Ever since walking away from a high speed tire blowout in Europe without a scratch in my early twenties I have been rather particular about tire pressure as I have found it plays a rather large roll in both saftly and ride comfort.

Over the years I found tweaking the manufacture ‘recommended’ is setting for each vehicle I bring home is a very useful thing to do as ride and comfort is a very subjective thing.

So I thought l share my process and current settings with you in the hope that might help someone;
- Get a new high quality tire pressure meter from the auto store.
- Check current tire pressure for all four tires and write down these numbers in a notepad.
- Inflate tire pressure to the recommended 33 PSI, drive the vehicle over most bothersome stretch of road and write down your impressions.
- If one ‘feels’ the ride is too bouncy then one can increase the back tire pressure by 2 PSI.
- If the ride still ‘feels’ bouncy one can try to decrease the front tire by 2 PSI.
- If the ride is too ‘firm’ one can try the opposite settings, changing only one thing at time (front or back set).
- Although the tire installed on the Genesis is rated up to 51PSI, one should not need more than 4 PSI in either direction from the recommended 33 PSI.

I personally perform tire pressure checks every week or a tank fills up (whichever happens sooner) and replace pressure meter after 100 times of use as I found they become far less accurate over time.

What I found rather odd about the Genesis is the Manual states a 33 PSI on all four tires regardless of tire size or the overall weight of the vehicle (V6 or V8).

My current winter settings (V8 - GA/USA): Front 32, Back 35.

______
V8 Tech Tan/Cashmere

 

[holladay]

I have been riding around for several weeks with three 50 pound bags in my trunk.The extra weight in the trunk makes the car ride much better over rough roads. The rear suspension on the Genesis is very stiff, try pushing down on the rear bumper , you can hardly compress the rear springs. Try putting 150 to 200 pounds of weight in the trunk and see how your car rides.