• Car enthusiast? Join us on Cars Connected! iOS | Android | Desktop
  • Hint: Use a descriptive title for your new message
    If you're looking for help and want to draw people in who can assist you, use a descriptive subject title when posting your message. In other words, "I need help with my car" could be about anything and can easily be overlooked by people who can help. However, "I need help with my transmission" will draw interest from people who can help with a transmission specific issue. Be as descriptive as you can. Please also post in the appropriate forum. The "Lounge" is for introducing yourself. If you need help with your G70, please post in the G70 section - and so on... This message can be closed by clicking the X in the top right corner.

Genesis vs. Lincoln MKS

I think the MKS would have been great if it had the V8 now.. This is a Lincoln.. It needs to be powerful. I think the MKS is too heavy for a weak V6. That's going to hurt sales big time. There's not a WHOLE lot of reason to buy an MKS over a Genesis.. ONLY the badge is better.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MKS isn't going to get a V8. Both Lincoln and Cadillac have no future V8 plans at this point (outside of the V Series Cadillacs). Cadillac is killing off the Northstar and has abandoned their DOHC V8 program in favor of their DI V6 (due to new CAFE regulations). They will still offer LS pushrod V8 engines in certain performance models. Lincoln, as well as several lesser Ford vehicles, will be getting the new Ecoboost V6 which is supposed to have the HP and Torque of a V8 with the fuel-efficiency of a V6. I think the output is supposed to be in the mid-300 HP range in the MKS.

IMO, aside from the powertrain, the pricing of the MKS is a bit optomistic. Sure, it's a nice, big vehicle, but it's still built on a FWD platform. I wonder how much they'll be selling for 3-6 months from now.
 
IMO, aside from the powertrain, the pricing of the MKS is a bit optomistic. Sure, it's a nice, big vehicle, but it's still built on a FWD platform. I wonder how much they'll be selling for 3-6 months from now.

Need all that extra MSRP to pay for beaucoup TV advertising, incentives, rebates and 0% finance programs...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MKS isn't going to get a V8. Both Lincoln and Cadillac have no future V8 plans at this point (outside of the V Series Cadillacs). Cadillac is killing off the Northstar and has abandoned their DOHC V8 program in favor of their DI V6 (due to new CAFE regulations). They will still offer LS pushrod V8 engines in certain performance models. Lincoln, as well as several lesser Ford vehicles, will be getting the new Ecoboost V6 which is supposed to have the HP and Torque of a V8 with the fuel-efficiency of a V6. I think the output is supposed to be in the mid-300 HP range in the MKS.

IMO, aside from the powertrain, the pricing of the MKS is a bit optomistic. Sure, it's a nice, big vehicle, but it's still built on a FWD platform. I wonder how much they'll be selling for 3-6 months from now.
No V8 as far as I've heard. However, the turbo V6 will satisfy almost all V8 lovers...
 
Edmunds http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/d...Id=131286?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..2.*


Full Test: 2009 Lincoln MKS AWD

Lincoln Concedes to Cadillac, and Just About Everyone Else
By Ed Hellwig, Lead Senior Editor
Date posted: 2008-08-27 21:00:00.0

Lincoln versus Cadillac. It's one of the oldest rivalries in the car business and it's all but dead. The 2009 Lincoln MKS proves it.

Sure, the MKS is about the same price as a Cadillac CTS, but, well, that's where the similarities end. The CTS can legitimately claim various BMWs as rivals. The MKS? It's a luxury sedan and never a sport sedan, not even a little bit.

Which is fine. Dull can be good. Dull can work. Lexus has been doing dull for years. In fact, the Lexus ES 350, a close competitor to the MKS, is the brand's best-selling model.

So in an odd historical turn, the MKS could be thought of as Lincoln's attempt to build a better Lexus, except that it's no Lexus. It's no Acura TL either, or even a Hyundai Genesis.

No, the Lincoln MKS is just a little bit better than the Mercury Sable, which is a little bit better than the Ford Taurus. And never as good as a Cadillac.

Too Much Metal
The issues of the 2009 Lincoln MKS have little to do with the fact that it's still primarily a kind of front-wheel-drive sedan (despite this particular model's all-wheel-drive hardware). Cadillac might have made the switch to rear-wheel drive a long time ago, but the Lexus ES 350 that sells so well is also front-wheel drive, as is the recently redesigned 2009 Acura TL.

With the MKS, the real issue is too much weight. Our loaded test car with the optional all-wheel-drive system dented the scales at 4,349 pounds. To put this into perspective, the Lexus ES 350 could have a driver and three average-size adult passengers on board and still weigh less than an empty MKS. Even the all-wheel-drive Acura TL, no lightweight itself, is 363 pounds lighter than this Lincoln.

So much sheet metal is no excuse for limited agility, though. There are plenty of big, overstuffed luxury sedans that mask their weight with well-tuned suspensions. The MKS is not one of them. No, this car feels like a classic Lincoln, softly sprung and under-damped — perfect for smooth, straight highways and not much else. Sure, it'll soak up stray bumps, but hit a few in succession and the MKS feels wobbly and crude. Introduce a corner into the mix and it only gets worse.

With that in mind, the MKS's modest speed through our slalom test proved no surprise. At 60.8 mph, it was on par with the Lexus ES 350 and slightly slower than the Hyundai Genesis V6. The big 19-inch wheels and 255/45R19 tires that come standard on the all-wheel-drive MKS help, but there is still plenty of body roll and, more important, a general unease with changing direction quickly.

Since the all-wheel-drive system distributes the power between the front and rear wheels, there's very little tugging at the steering wheel under full power. Then again, there's rarely ever any feedback through the steering wheel. It's limp at highway speeds and yet strangely firm when you're lining up a parking space.

A Drivetrain Under Strain
So the 2009 Lincoln MKS is not much of a handler; no news there, really. But the story doesn't get any better when it comes to acceleration and braking. Again, moving all that weight around isn't easy.

The standard 3.7-liter V6 is essentially a larger version of the 3.5-liter engine used in the Ford Taurus, with which the MKS shares its platform. This V6 is capable of generating 275 horsepower and 276 pound-feet of torque when burning premium fuel, although these numbers drop to 273 hp and 270 lb-ft on regular gas.

With a tank full of premium, our MKS went from zero to 60 mph in 7.5 seconds (7.2 seconds with a 1-foot rollout like on a drag strip), a respectable time that's about a half-second slower than the Lexus ES 350. The Hyundai Genesis V6 and Cadillac CTS go from zero to 60 mph in 6.3 seconds.

Those disappointing acceleration numbers are matched by the sound of an engine that's running harder than it wants to. For a modern DOHC V6, this engine sounds strained at high rpm, which of course it is.

Deceleration Curve
Getting the MKS back down from speed is another issue. The brake pedal is soft and has a long range of travel, and together these things make the task of getting this 4,349-pound car stopped on its Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires feel even less effective. At the track, it takes 130 feet to stop from 60 mph, an average performance. A Hyundai Genesis V6 will do the task in 117 feet.

The six-speed automatic transmission is the one notable bright spot in the drivetrain. Its programming is spot-on, delivering quick, sharp shifts right when you expect them. Sure, it will hesitate a little when the gas pedal is slapped down abruptly, but there are few automatics these days that don't. There's a manual shift gate, too, and it's properly oriented so you get downshifts when you push it forward and upshifts when you pull it back, not that you would think it appropriate to do so in this Lincoln luxury car.

Room to Spare
A world-class sport sedan the MKS is not. It does, however, provide a long list of features designed to make it as comfortable and luxurious as possible when pointed straight ahead.

Chief among them is a spacious interior. This is not really a feature in the typical sense, but worth noting given the overall size of the MKS's cabin. Compared to the Lexus ES 350 and Cadillac CTS, the 2009 Lincoln MKS is larger in nearly every interior dimension. That extra inch or two makes a difference, too, as the MKS swallows four adults quite comfortably.

The seats themselves are wide, flat and covered in top-quality leather. There are heaters at all four seating positions and cooled seats for the driver and front passenger. On a long trip you would ask for nothing more than a little extra toe room in back.

There's an extra-large trunk with 18.4 cubic feet of capacity as well, but the narrow opening, high liftover and two-tiered floor make it hard to use all the space.

Who Needs iDrive?
Lincoln is quite proud of all the audio and communications technology offered in the MKS. With a voice-activated navigation system, THX-certified audio system and Sync connectivity, all the good stuff is on the options list, not to mention rain-sensing wipers, proximity parking sensors and push-button ignition.

Other than Sync, none of this is really unique, but Lincoln deserves credit for offering so much technology without destroying the continuity of the interior. There's no central control knob, no pop-up anything: just simple controls that you can use at a glance. The navigation screen is especially bright and clear, rivaling anything available from Europe or Japan.

It would be all the more impressive if the rest of the interior were up to the same standard. But while none of the materials are particularly cheap-looking, they're not going to put Audi to shame, either. The gauges are particularly bland and most of the switchgear is just average. Build quality is generally good, although the handle on the door creaked every time we pulled it shut (not the best way to start each drive, we're sure you will agree).

Big Bottom Line
None of the Lincoln's shortcomings would be so glaring if it undercut its competitors on price. That's hardly the case, though, as the 2009 Lincoln MKS starts at $37,665 for the front-wheel-drive model and $39,555 for the all-wheel-drive model. Our test car with the Ultimate package topped out at $46,070.

A loaded Lexus ES 350 tops out around $44K and it handles better, has a more elegant interior and is a far more prestigious nameplate. The new Acura TL, which has been stretched to roughly match the size of the MKS, is expected to top out at $42K with all-wheel drive, a 305-hp V6 and a similar list of features. Then there's the new Hyundai Genesis V6. It matches the MKS for interior room, pummels the Lincoln in every performance category and would only run you $40K fully loaded.

Then again, if you must buy American, there's the Cadillac CTS. It'll cost you about the same as the 2009 Lincoln MKS, but it drives better in every way and has a distinctive style inside and out that's memorable if not always pretty.

If Lincoln wants to keep the rivalry going with Cadillac, it's going to have to try harder than the MKS.

________

Second Opinion
Inside Line Editor in Chief Scott Oldham says:
Lincoln has really done it. The MKS is a marvel. A real alternative to all the other $30,000 V6-powered sedans out there. You know, the Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys and Nissan Altimas of the world. Load those mainstreamers up with all the leather and electronics I enjoyed in this Lincoln and they also cost about $30 grand, sometimes more, so the Lincoln is a very nice contrarian choice for a buyer in that price range.

You also get the prestige of buying a Lincoln instead of a Toyota, Honda or Nissan, and for the first time in a long time Ford's luxury division has delivered a car that looks good, feels good and performs well. It's a car you would recommend to anybody looking for a well-equipped, well-built $30,000 sedan with upscale flair and feel.

What? What do you mean it costs $46,000? Can't be. Not possible. You must be mistaken. Even $36,000 would be a reach. This is a $30,000 car by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, wait, this one has all-wheel drive. OK then, $33,000 on its best day. There's no way it can cost more.

But you're right. There it is on the window sticker: $46,070. I take it all back. The Lincoln MKS is an embarrassment. This is the best Ford's got? It's slow, crude and questionably built. It's even a little awkward to look at. Forty-six grand? For what? The engine sounds like it was built by preschoolers...in Slovenia.

Get an Altima.

Ouch.
 
That Edmunds review certainly isn't going to help the Lincoln MKS overcome the Hyundai Genesis.. How sad, really.. Lincoln needs to beat Hyundai instead of the other way around... Cadillac too...
 
Ouch...!

"So in an odd historical turn, the MKS could be thought of as Lincoln's attempt to build a better Lexus, except that it's no Lexus. It's no Acura TL either, or even a Hyundai Genesis."


I wonder which will have the higher sales?
 
So far the MKS is wiping the floor w/ the Genesis in terms of sales. I'll be curious to see numbers for August and September since many dealerships didn't get their 1st Genesis shipment until mid-July.

July MKS sales 2279
July Genesis sales 619

Luxury Car Sales 7/2008: http://forums.thecarlounge.com/zerothread?id=3961715
 
And with essentially NO advertizing and NO publicity (the car mags just hit the stands) this is surprizing?
 
No, not suprising. I was merely posting the numbers for comparison.

Only time will tell which is more successful.
 
So far the MKS is wiping the floor w/ the Genesis in terms of sales. I'll be curious to see numbers for August and September since many dealerships didn't get their 1st Genesis shipment until mid-July.

July MKS sales 2279
July Genesis sales 619

According to Hyundai, they are on track to sell 1,800 Genesis sedans for the month of August.

If that holds, that's pretty impressive considering the limited stock, no V-8s available and of course, pretty much no advertising.

Sept. sales will definitely be interesting (to see how much impact the $80 million dollar advertising campaign will have).
______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!
 
Given that the MKS is so much bigger than the Genesis, its relatively low gas mileage is understandable.

Cd probably has something to do with the mileage. Genesis is .27 i think the MKS is like .34

ford really should have done better in that arena, as it has a huge impact when running down the freeway at 70mph....let alone 85.....
 
Looking to update and upgrade your Genesis luxury sport automobile? Look no further than right here in our own forum store - where orders are shipped immediately!
I think the Edmunds article is a little ridiculous.

They place too much emphasis on handling and performance and too little emphasis on cabin space.

For luxury sedans anywhere near the price range of the MKS, there are only two that compete with it in cabin space: the Cadillac DTS and the Hyundai Genesis. Everything else, including all of the other models Edmunds mentioned, is much smaller. The Cadillac DTS is a comparative dinosaur, and the only technical feature it has that stands out beyond the Genesis and MKS is the magnetic adjustable ride suspension. But you need to get a loaded DTS in order to have it.

So really, in this class the Genesis and MKS are the only games in town. The MKS loses on efficiency (the Genesis is just as spacious, shorter, narrower, lighter, faster, and more fuel efficient) and handling (the Genesis handles better) but offers Sync. I think the Genesis is superior, but in my opinion the MKS isn't nearly as bad as Edmunds seems to believe.
 
The MKS loses on efficiency (the Genesis is just as spacious, shorter, narrower, lighter, faster, and more fuel efficient) and handling (the Genesis handles better) but offers Sync. I think the Genesis is superior, but in my opinion the MKS isn't nearly as bad as Edmunds seems to believe.

The MKS also loses on power. I think that's an important variable in full-size luxury cars today. Then you have warranty...
 
Lincoln, who has been a disappointment for so long, had to knock this one out of the park. They didn't, and Edmunds called them on it.
 
Last edited:
October's issue of Car & Driver has a favorable review of the Lincoln, for those interested.
 
Back
Top