Genesis's giving up on V8 development

[MyCorvette]

Among its major competitors, only Acura is not doing a V8. All its major rivals currently still have, and will keep developing/offering new V8s.

Even sales declined recently, Lexus is planning to roll out the new 4.0T V8 on the LC F (coupe), LF-1 (SUV) and LS600 (sedan).

Since Genesis is trying very hard and is quite serious to go upmarket, I think it is a mistake for them to not evolving the Tau V8, especially for the next generation of G90.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

Among its major competitors, only Acura is not doing a V8. All its major rivals currently still have, and will keep developing/offering new V8s.

Even sales declined recently, Lexus is planning to roll out the new 4.0T V8 on the LC F (coupe), LF-1 (SUV) and LS600 (sedan).

Since Genesis is trying very hard and is quite serious to go upmarket, I think it is a mistake for them to not evolving the Tau V8, especially for the next generation of G90.

I totally agree. Having a V8 under the hood changes the whole dynamic of the car. Call me old school but nothing beats a V8 for power and smooth acceleration.

 

[princelybug]

+3.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Maybe they are focusing on the future - electric

 

[3.3 Rulz]

The new 3.5TT is good enough for all models, no more V8's needed IMO.

 

[carguy75]

The new 3.5TT is good enough for all models, no more V8's needed IMO.

As much as it hurts for me to admit this being an V8 owner myself; the V8 engine is not needed due to the power and fuel economy twin turbo changed V6 engines are making. Hell, even the newer inline 4 turbo engines are strong performers. The newer turbo inline 4 powered Ford Mustang can run 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, nuff said.

The only advantage the V8 powered Genesis models "may" possibly have is long-term reliably pass the warranty period due to less components that could go wrong with age. Turbo charger bearings does go out over time due to heat, however I not certain of the turbo units durability used by Hyundai in the 3.3TT engines to make any predictions due to how new the engine is on the market.

The 5.0 engine seems to be going strong with high mileages without reported issues except for a number of early model 2012 5.0 engines with defective piston rings. So I put my money on the 5.0 V8 as being the long-term choice for reliability.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

As much as it hurts for me to admit this being an V8 owner myself; the V8 engine is not needed due to the power and fuel economy twin turbo changed V6 engines are making. Hell, even the newer inline 4 turbo engines are strong performers. The newer turbo inline 4 powered Ford Mustang can run 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, nuff said.

The only advantage the V8 powered Genesis models "may" possibly have is long-term reliably pass the warranty period due to less components that could go wrong with age. Turbo charger bearings does go out over time due to heat, however I not certain of the turbo units durability used by Hyundai in the 3.3TT engines to make any predictions due to how new the engine is on the market.

The 5.0 engine seems to be going strong with high mileages without reported issues except for a number of early model 2012 5.0 engines with defective piston rings. So I put my money on the 5.0 V8 as being the long-term choice for reliability.

I could not agree more with you. V8's are going out like carburetors did. They are becoming obsolete. I am still going to try and find one when or if I get tired of my current Genesis.

 

[Goaterguy]

Wonder why the G90 in Canada sells as a V8 standard. The V6TT is an built-to-order option.

 

[YEH]

Even sales declined recently, Lexus is planning to roll out the new 4.0T V8 on the LC F (coupe), LF-1 (SUV) and LS600 (sedan).

The Lexus TTV8 is too little, too late (like Cadillac's Blackwing).

Toyota would be lucky to break even on development based on sales (which really would only be the US).

Since Genesis is trying very hard and is quite serious to go upmarket, I think it is a mistake for them to not evolving the Tau V8, especially for the next generation of G90.

If you haven't noticed, the future of upmarket is electrification.

The 3.5TT w/ electric boost would offer comparable power/acceleration as a TTV8 (likely even better w/ immediate torque available) and a full-on electric would dust a TTV8.

Genesis was smart in foregoing spending resources in developing a TTV8 and instead, focusing on going electric (the eG80 will be out well ahead of any electric from Lexus).

Am saying this as someone who doesn't think there will be wide-spread, mass-market adoption of full EVs anytime in the near future (which will be ICE w/ electric boost).

 

[skipgen]

I totally agree. Having a V8 under the hood changes the whole dynamic of the car. Call me old school but nothing beats a V8 for power and smooth acceleration.

That's why I bought a 5.0. Figured I needed to own at least one big V8 sedan in my lifetime - A Charger/300 are little juvenile for my tastes and are built like crap (IMHO)...

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[MyCorvette]

The Lexus TTV8 is too little, too late (like Cadillac's Blackwing).

Toyota would be lucky to break even on development based on sales (which really would only be the US).




If you haven't noticed, the future of upmarket is electrification.

The 3.5TT w/ electric boost would offer comparable power/acceleration as a TTV8 (likely even better w/ immediate torque available) and a full-on electric would dust a TTV8.

Genesis was smart in foregoing spending resources in developing a TTV8 and instead, focusing on going electric (the eG80 will be out well ahead of any electric from Lexus).

Am saying this as someone who doesn't think there will be wide-spread, mass-market adoption of full EVs anytime in the near future (which will be ICE w/ electric boost).

The REAL upmarket should be V8TT + electrification, which is exactly what VW group and Mercedes are doing right now.

Not talking about luxury, even the RAM 1500 pickup has HEMI V8 + eTorque feature.

Not sure how Hyundai/Genesis management come up with the current decision.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

That's why I bought a 5.0. Figured I needed to own at least one big V8 sedan in my lifetime - A Charger/300 are little juvenile for my tastes and are built like crap (IMHO)...

Yes they are crappy. I rented one while I was in Vegas. No comparison to the Genny whatsoever...

 

[YEH]

Those V8TT+ electrification are used in limited types of vehicles and may not last that much into the future.

This is what (former) Aston CEO stated re Aston developing their own TTV6+electrification powerplant.

"Mercedes have made no secret of where their engine technology is moving to, and obviously we don't foresee four-cylinder engines in our Astons," Palmer told Car and Driver, "so we’ve got to make our own journey."

"The key is sound, tuning the pipes to make it sound like an Aston," he said. "Obviously we can use the hybrid system and the electric motor to fill in on torque so you can compensate for the cylinder size with the electrical assist. As long as it feels like a V-8 and sounds majestic, I think it's a perfectly sensible way to go, and a lot more sensible than an [inline] four would be for us."

While we will have to wait to find out how much power will come from the new system's combustion and hybrid sides, Palmer indicated we can safely expect the total to be at least as much as that made by the current V-8.

Aston Martin Replacing AMG V-8 with a Hybrid V-6 It Will Make Itself

Good news, too: the automaker is keeping its V-12.

www.caranddriver.com

The upcoming WLTP emissions penalties make manufacturing and selling large displacement ICE totally not worth it, and many cities across Europe have plans for an outright ban on the ICE.

 

[DarinG90]

A major benefit of the V8 over the TTV6s is its useable power in typical driving situations. How often do you actually floor your G90 from a stoplight? Not often, if ever. So 0-60mph times arent telling the interesting part of the problem it solves. Thats's passing power - going from 55mph to 85mph in a blink -- this is where the V8 outshines Turbos handily. The V8 is smooth as silk, sounds fantastic, is durable and far less complicated (less to break), and has maximum torgue right where you are mostly likely to want it. For a big sedan, a V8 definitely wins over the TTV6s.

 

[Backslack]

People keep talking about the greatness of V8s over turbos without mentioning how naturally aspirated V8s are going the way of the dinosaur, and what V8s are left are all turbocharged anyway and will have the same inherent complications, if not more than a turbo 6.

That Tau V8 itself is an ancient engine with roots that date back to Mitsubishi's 8A8, has terrible fuel economy compared to other far more powerful and modern turbo V8s, and would fail almost every emissions test in Europe. I'm not even sure if it was ever designed to be turbocharged. Even if Hyundai were to keep a V8 option for Genesis, they wouldn't be using the Tau since it's Direct Injection only, while all their new Smartstream engines have both port and direct injection for cleaner emissions.

Price also has to be taken into account since turbo V8s exist only on the highest-end models of any brand, and most people would not pay M5 or E63 AMG money for a new brand like Genesis. When you have over $100K to blow on a car, saving $10K means literally nothing.

 

[YEH]

A major benefit of the V8 over the TTV6s is its useable power in typical driving situations. How often do you actually floor your G90 from a stoplight? Not often, if ever. So 0-60mph times arent telling the interesting part of the problem it solves. Thats's passing power - going from 55mph to 85mph in a blink -- this is where the V8 outshines Turbos handily. The V8 is smooth as silk, sounds fantastic, is durable and far less complicated (less to break), and has maximum torgue right where you are mostly likely to want it. For a big sedan, a V8 definitely wins over the TTV6s.

Depends on what one considers passing speed.

In MT's 2017 comparison test of flagship sedans, they had the 3.3TT AWD G90's passing speed (45-65 mph) at 2.8s. (For the 2020 G90, got it down to 2.5s.)

A tick behind the LS 500 AWD and the 740e xDrive.

Note how well the 740e did in this despite being powered by a T4 due to the torque boost from the electric motors and the 740e isn't exactly a performance--oriented hybrid.

Quarter mile for the '17 G90 was 13.9s (for the '20, got it down to 13.7s).

For the 2015 LS 460 F-Sport, the QM run got 14.2s; the LS 500 was quicker at 13.7s.

So, both the '17 and '20 G90 have a quicker QM run than the '15 LS 460 w/ its NA V8.

Passing situations are no issue for larger displacement turbo engines as their turbos are already spooled up.

BMW will be going to electrification for the next M5.

Purportedly a T8 w/ electric boost for around 750 hp and a pure electric variant w/ over 1k hp.

Sure, Genesis won't have something to compete against the T8+boost, but a T6+boost should still provide close to 600 hp, and they will compete, if not beat BMW on the pure electric.

Previously, had hoped that H/G would develop a new smaller displacement T8, but over time, realized that it wouldn't be the best use of R&D.

A T6 + elec boost would provide enough power for all but the ones who are looking for insane power/acceleration and that will come from the electric variant.

Sure, neither will have the garble of a throaty V8, but doubt BMW keeps their T8 beyond the next gen.

 

[skipgen]

Depends on what one considers passing speed.

In MT's 2017 comparison test of flagship sedans, they had the 3.3TT AWD G90's passing speed (45-65 mph) at 2.8s. (For the 2020 G90, got it down to 2.5s.)

A tick behind the LS 500 AWD and the 740e xDrive.

Note how well the 740e did in this despite being powered by a T4 due to the torque boost from the electric motors and the 740e isn't exactly a performance--oriented hybrid.

Quarter mile for the '17 G90 was 13.9s (for the '20, got it down to 13.7s).

For the 2015 LS 460 F-Sport, the QM run got 14.2s; the LS 500 was quicker at 13.7s.

So, both the '17 and '20 G90 have a quicker QM run than the '15 LS 460 w/ its NA V8.

Passing situations are no issue for larger displacement turbo engines as their turbos are already spooled up.

BMW will be going to electrification for the next M5.

Purportedly a T8 w/ electric boost for around 750 hp and a pure electric variant w/ over 1k hp.

Sure, Genesis won't have something to compete against the T8+boost, but a T6+boost should still provide close to 600 hp, and they will compete, if not beat BMW on the pure electric.

Previously, had hoped that H/G would develop a new smaller displacement T8, but over time, realized that it wouldn't be the best use of R&D.

A T6 + elec boost would provide enough power for all but the ones who are looking for insane power/acceleration and that will come from the electric variant.

Sure, neither will have the garble of a throaty V8, but doubt BMW keeps their T8 beyond the next gen.

All these prognostications are kinda irrelevant - I like the normally aspirated V8, and that's what I bought. You pay your money & make your choices. If you want Twin Turbo V8's, electrified anti lag or whatever go visit a BMW or Mercedes dealer. However, with all this cutting edge tech, I'd highly advise a lease deal. Otherwise these technologies are sure to bankrupt you after the warranty's spent. Just my 2 cents...

 

[MyCorvette]

Depends on what one considers passing speed.

In MT's 2017 comparison test of flagship sedans, they had the 3.3TT AWD G90's passing speed (45-65 mph) at 2.8s. (For the 2020 G90, got it down to 2.5s.)

A tick behind the LS 500 AWD and the 740e xDrive.

Note how well the 740e did in this despite being powered by a T4 due to the torque boost from the electric motors and the 740e isn't exactly a performance--oriented hybrid.

Quarter mile for the '17 G90 was 13.9s (for the '20, got it down to 13.7s).

For the 2015 LS 460 F-Sport, the QM run got 14.2s; the LS 500 was quicker at 13.7s.

So, both the '17 and '20 G90 have a quicker QM run than the '15 LS 460 w/ its NA V8.

Passing situations are no issue for larger displacement turbo engines as their turbos are already spooled up.

BMW will be going to electrification for the next M5.

Purportedly a T8 w/ electric boost for around 750 hp and a pure electric variant w/ over 1k hp.

Sure, Genesis won't have something to compete against the T8+boost, but a T6+boost should still provide close to 600 hp, and they will compete, if not beat BMW on the pure electric.

Previously, had hoped that H/G would develop a new smaller displacement T8, but over time, realized that it wouldn't be the best use of R&D.

A T6 + elec boost would provide enough power for all but the ones who are looking for insane power/acceleration and that will come from the electric variant.

Sure, neither will have the garble of a throaty V8, but doubt BMW keeps their T8 beyond the next gen.

Car and Driver/MT's passing time test is done by flooring the gas pedal. However in daily driving conditions, most of the time you do not need to floor the gas to execute a passing.

At least I can speak for 750i, around 4 out of 10 tries, after you depressing the gas pedal, the ECU/engine needs to "think" for ~1-2 seconds before it "wakes up" and "accept" your throttle input, this delay is very annoying and sometimes very dangerous.

 

[carguy75]

That's why I bought a 5.0. Figured I needed to own at least one big V8 sedan in my lifetime - A Charger/300 are little juvenile for my tastes and are built like crap (IMHO)...

LOL. I respect the Hemi power of the Charger/Challenger, but they are not sleek or smooth looking at all. Not my first choice to buy in a large car. Plus, those Dodges are just too common on the road in my area. However, a fully loaded Challenger model does attract my more unrefined side that whats a pure beast on the road. Well, until I blow the doors off one with my 5.0 Genesis at a merge lane and then I come back to my senses.

The Genesis 5.0 can handle most Charger/Challenger at the merge light unless it is a Scat pack or Hellcat. Different class of cars those are.

 

[skipgen]

LOL. I respect the Hemi power of the Charger/Challenger, but they are not sleek or smooth looking at all. Not my first choice to buy in a large car. Plus, those Dodges are just too common on the road in my area. However, a fully loaded Challenger model does attract my more unrefined side that whats a pure beast on the road. Well, until I blow the doors off one with my 5.0 Genesis at a merge lane and then I come back to my senses.

The Genesis 5.0 can handle most Charger/Challenger at the merge light unless it is a Scat pack or Hellcat. Different class of cars those are.

Yeah... the Genesis 5.0 is quite the sleeper! If it's rolling, it can catch a lot of things off guard...