Genesis's giving up on V8 development

[YEH]

All these prognostications are kinda irrelevant - I like the normally aspirated V8, and that's what I bought. You pay your money & make your choices. If you want Twin Turbo V8's, electrified anti lag or whatever go visit a BMW or Mercedes dealer. However, with all this cutting edge tech, I'd highly advise a lease deal. Otherwise these technologies are sure to bankrupt you after the warranty's spent. Just my 2 cents...

Not really, b/c how many NA V8 lux sedans are still available on the market?

Unless I'm missing something, once the F/L G90 gets replaced, that's it.

MB just announced no V8 for the E Class coupe.

Car and Driver/MT's passing time test is done by flooring the gas pedal. However in daily driving conditions, most of the time you do not need to floor the gas to execute a passing.

Regardless, there supposedly is consistency when they do the test, so at the very least, we see how the G90 fared against its competition in the 45-65 mph passing test.

 

[MG8]

high powered n/a v8s are like a work of art. wish they kept it going.

 

[Kraig Wilkinson]

high powered n/a v8s are like a work of art. wish they kept it going.

Well said. MG8.

 

[Johnny_M]

The availability of a normally aspirated V8 in the G90 sealed the deal for me vs. the Lexus LS. There are a lot or reasons manufacturers are turning away from V8's and most of those reasons are not good ones in my opinion. I guess if I was going to lease a car, turbo would be OK. But as a buy and hold kind of guy - no thanks! Totally agree with the previous posters touting reliability / simplicity. It's not just the added number of parts. They also run hotter. So even if number of parts was the same, wear and tear would be accelerated.

 

[Johnny_M]

Also, the EV fan, or owner, is an entirely different kind of buyer from those likely to enjoy V8s (or TTV6's for that matter).

Large, powerful internal combustion engines are irreplaceable if you enjoy road trips in a big luxury cruiser and will be for the foreseeable future.

EV fans/owners must be OK with foregoing that for now. I guess as long as you don't mind staying around your urban area of origin and mainly do short hops and commutes (or are cool with stopping to plug your car back in every 3-4 hours when you can) it's all good.

If that's all I was interested in doing I probably wouldn't care about V8's either.

To each his own!

 

[YEH]

Surprise, surprise - Toyota has put development of its TTV8 on hold for now; wouldn't be surprised if Toyota quietly cancels the project down the road.

The thing is, they already don't have many vehicles/sales for the 3.5TT V6 - which is only currently found in the slow selling LS 500.

There's the RWD Lexus CUV in development, but that's still a couple of years away.

Guess they can add the 3.5TT as the base engine for the LC 500, but that's a niche market.

There have been rumors of the 3.5TT appearing in the F/L IS-F, but have my doubts, and the next IS (if not going entirely electric) is rumored to use Mazda's upcoming I6 (along w/ Mazda's RWD platform).

HMG, otoh, will be getting good use out of its new 3.5TT V6 - G90, G80, G70, K9/K900, Stinger, GV80, GV70 and possibly a GV90 and/or a Kia RWD lux CUV.

 

[Backslack]

Surprise, surprise - Toyota has put development of its TTV8 on hold for now; wouldn't be surprised if Toyota quietly cancels the project down the road.

Two years ago, when Lexus came out with the new LS, LC, and ES, I really thought the brand was going to do some big things. Those were exciting times. Yet here we are now, with them cancelling the GS, giving the IS a non-refresh and cancelling it in most countries, shifting priority to rebadging more tiny Toyota crossovers, and blindly pushing hybrids in a world that's moving to EV's, while putting in almost zero effort on EV's themselves. The TNGA architecture that they're so proud of has had minimal usage in the Lexus lineup, and most of their cars are ancient with minimal modern updates.

This is the type of shortsightedness that I would expect from General Motors, not Toyota. They've clearly given up going after the Germans and are more content being "Toyota+" like what Nissan is doing to Infiniti.

 

[YEH]

^ Agree that Toyota/Lexus has made numerous missteps, but they do have a slew of electrics in development, even if they originally doubted the financial return (which think they are correct; won't see a good ROI for a long while aside from a few high end models/brands that can charge a premium such as the Taycan).

However, don't think they made a mistake w/ hybrids (at least when it comes to Toyota; Lexus is a diff. story).

The RAV-4 hybrid has been in big demand in many markets, where there are waiting lists and buyers willing to pay over list.

Think the new hybrid Highlander will also do well for Toyota even if the non-hybrid versions are nothing more than middling.

For the short-term, when it comes to electrification, hybrids will play a major role (is the reason why Toyota/Lexus sales have done better than the overall market in Europe, as buyers have increasingly been turning away from diesel), which is why disagree w/ Genesis seemingly having eschewed hybrids.

At the very least, should have made a 48V system the standard battery system; not only would it help fuel economy in stop-go-traffic, but a 48V system is needed for e-turbos (which is what the Germans are doing to further increase power/performance).

Speaking of missteps, think the RWD CUV Lexus has in development (which is intended to be their flagship CUV) will be another if it closely adheres to the concept - which doesn't seem to have any more room in the rear/3rd row than the GV80.

That's problematic on 2 fronts - if Genesis decides to go ahead w/ a GV90, the Genesis flagship CUV will offer a good bit more room and then there's the GV80 that seemingly offers about the same amount of space at a lower price-point.

 

[MyCorvette]

Surprise, surprise - Toyota has put development of its TTV8 on hold for now; wouldn't be surprised if Toyota quietly cancels the project down the road.

The thing is, they already don't have many vehicles/sales for the 3.5TT V6 - which is only currently found in the slow selling LS 500.

There's the RWD Lexus CUV in development, but that's still a couple of years away.

Guess they can add the 3.5TT as the base engine for the LC 500, but that's a niche market.

There have been rumors of the 3.5TT appearing in the F/L IS-F, but have my doubts, and the next IS (if not going entirely electric) is rumored to use Mazda's upcoming I6 (along w/ Mazda's RWD platform).

HMG, otoh, will be getting good use out of its new 3.5TT V6 - G90, G80, G70, K9/K900, Stinger, GV80, GV70 and possibly a GV90 and/or a Kia RWD lux CUV.

What I see in the news is Toyota GR decided not to participate in this year's 24 Hours of Nurburgring, which set to test the new V8TT.

https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/slideshows/lexus-new-twin-turbo-v8-debut-on-hold-for-now-613220

However this is due to the coronavirus concern, and Toyota GR said they plans to return to next year's racing:

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Decides Not to Participate in 2020 Edition of Nürburgring 24 Hours | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

So I consider this is not cancellation of the new V8 engine, they just postponed the release due to the pandemic.

 

[Johnny_M]

What I see in the news is Toyota GR decided not to participate in this year's 24 Hours of Nurburgring, which set to test the new V8TT.

https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/slideshows/lexus-new-twin-turbo-v8-debut-on-hold-for-now-613220

However this is due to the coronavirus concern, and Toyota GR said they plans to return to next year's racing:

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Decides Not to Participate in 2020 Edition of Nürburgring 24 Hours | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

So I consider this is not cancellation of the new V8 engine, they just postponed the release due to the pandemic.

Fingers crossed you are reading tea leaves correctly MyCorvette. I'm sticking with Hyundai/Genesis for the foreseeable future now, but would love to see Toyota keep to this commitment.

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[MyCorvette]

Surprise, surprise - Toyota has put development of its TTV8 on hold for now; wouldn't be surprised if Toyota quietly cancels the project down the road.

The thing is, they already don't have many vehicles/sales for the 3.5TT V6 - which is only currently found in the slow selling LS 500.

There's the RWD Lexus CUV in development, but that's still a couple of years away.

Guess they can add the 3.5TT as the base engine for the LC 500, but that's a niche market.

There have been rumors of the 3.5TT appearing in the F/L IS-F, but have my doubts, and the next IS (if not going entirely electric) is rumored to use Mazda's upcoming I6 (along w/ Mazda's RWD platform).

HMG, otoh, will be getting good use out of its new 3.5TT V6 - G90, G80, G70, K9/K900, Stinger, GV80, GV70 and possibly a GV90 and/or a Kia RWD lux CUV.

See, it is not good to do wishful thinking, this will somehow backfire and make you less credible in the long run.

LC-F may be canceled, but Lexus twin turbo 4.0 V8 still happening:

Lexus LC F Dead But Work On Twin-Turbo V8 Continues: Report

If you can read Japanese then here you go:

https://www.carsensor.net/contents/editor/category_849/_64943.html

Among luxury brands, currently only Volvo, Acura, Lincoln and Genesis do not have, or is going to give up V8s.

 

[Starflyer]

Who really cars whether you get to 60 1 second quicker? I'm betting most Genesis drivers could care less.

 

[Goaterguy]

Who really cars whether you get to 60 1 second quicker? I'm betting most Genesis drivers could care less.

I agree but nowadays it's a numbers race.

 

[EdP]

I agree but nowadays it's a numbers race.

It is. The lower numbers get costly too, even though they are little used.

I drove across a scale this morning in my G80 and it was reading over 4600 pounds. It takes a lot of horsepower (and money) to get that moving at 60 mph. How fast is fast enough? How fast is a status symbol that is rarely used?

 

[Goaterguy]

It is. The lower numbers get costly too, even though they are little used.

I drove across a scale this morning in my G80 and it was reading over 4600 pounds. It takes a lot of horsepower (and money) to get that moving at 60 mph. How fast is fast enough? How fast is a status symbol that is rarely used?

Agree. It also takes a lot of money to stop those 4600 lbs, and to warrant all that powertrain for 10 years, but for some, all they care is which one is the fastest.

That's also how manufacturers ruin products by having luxury cars tested at the Nürburgring.

That's also the reason I'm more interested in a G90 or a Lexus over an S500 or 7 series.

 

[YEH]

See, it is not good to do wishful thinking, this will somehow backfire and make you less credible in the long run.

LC-F may be canceled, but Lexus twin turbo 4.0 V8 still happening:

Lexus LC F Dead But Work On Twin-Turbo V8 Continues: Report

If you can read Japanese then here you go:

https://www.carsensor.net/contents/editor/category_849/_64943.html

Among luxury brands, currently only Volvo, Acura, Lincoln and Genesis do not have, or is going to give up V8s.

Pretty hilarious comment coming from you.

And it still remains to be seen (the pandemic has and continues to change things in the auto industry) as Lexus is running out of models in which to put the V8; is it really worth the trouble/cost of putting it in the LS 500 which already doesn't sell in any significant #s?

That just leaves the upcoming RWD CUV and the GX/LX which likely will morph into 1 model.

If Toyota goes ahead with it, would only be due to the saving grace of putting it into Toyota pickups and SUVs, as well as being too far into development to stop without trying to recoup their investment (which wouldn't be thru Lexus sales).

Most other automakers aren't investing further in V8s; that's why automakers like LR, Aston and Maserati have invested so heavily in their new 6 cylinder engines (the new Maserati engine producing 621 HP before any electric boost).

Few automakers are willing to pay the penalties that come with 8+ cylinders via Europe's upcoming more stringent regs and China also highly taxes such engines via both displacement and emissions taxes/penalties, so that leaves just the US market which isn't enough for most to get a ROI.

 

[EdP]

Pretty hilarious comment coming from you.

And it still remains to be seen (the pandemic has and continues to change things in the auto industry) as Lexus is running out of models in which to put the V8; is it really worth the trouble/cost of putting it in the LS 500 which already doesn't sell in any significant #s?

That just leaves the upcoming RWD CUV and the GX/LX which likely will morph into 1 model.

If Toyota goes ahead with it, would only be due to the saving grace of putting it into Toyota pickups and SUVs, as well as being too far into development to stop without trying to recoup their investment (which wouldn't be thru Lexus sales).

Most other automakers aren't investing further in V8s; that's why automakers like LR, Aston and Maserati have invested so heavily in their new 6 cylinder engines (the new Maserati engine producing 621 HP before any electric boost).

Few automakers are willing to pay the penalties that come with 8+ cylinders via Europe's upcoming more stringent regs and China also highly taxes such engines via both displacement and emissions taxes/penalties, so that leaves just the US market which isn't enough for most to get a ROI.

In 10 years we will be driving either electrics or 4 cylinder. The G90 will be a big car, the size of a Sonata.

 

[YEH]

^ Pretty much, tho still think there will be 6 cylinders with electric boost for certain higher end models.

 

[MyCorvette]

Pretty hilarious comment coming from you.

And it still remains to be seen (the pandemic has and continues to change things in the auto industry) as Lexus is running out of models in which to put the V8; is it really worth the trouble/cost of putting it in the LS 500 which already doesn't sell in any significant #s?

That just leaves the upcoming RWD CUV and the GX/LX which likely will morph into 1 model.

If Toyota goes ahead with it, would only be due to the saving grace of putting it into Toyota pickups and SUVs, as well as being too far into development to stop without trying to recoup their investment (which wouldn't be thru Lexus sales).

Most other automakers aren't investing further in V8s; that's why automakers like LR, Aston and Maserati have invested so heavily in their new 6 cylinder engines (the new Maserati engine producing 621 HP before any electric boost).

Few automakers are willing to pay the penalties that come with 8+ cylinders via Europe's upcoming more stringent regs and China also highly taxes such engines via both displacement and emissions taxes/penalties, so that leaves just the US market which isn't enough for most to get a ROI.

No matter how you interpret or frame it, Toyota/Lexus is still committed to new V8 engine, period.

 

[YEH]

^ And no matter how you frame it, it will end up being a poor "investment" for them, just as the Blackwing is for GM.

Toyota already was replacing the NA V8 in its large pick up and SUVs with a TTV6.

Them using this V8 (likely for TRD variants) in such models is their way of trying to recoup the cost of their investment as Lexus wouldn't be able to do so on its own.

A twin turbo 6 cylinder with electric boost will offer better performance while being able to be available in more markets; and hence, get a better ROI - which is the point, isn't it?