Got The Cold Start Shake Rattle And Roll This Morning YEIKS!

[abenc]

Notice decreased performance/power and bit noiser engine couple of weeks ago (with onset of cold weather) but thought it was my imagination.

Yesterday rapid banging noise from engine and check engine light constantly on. No bad exhaust, no shaking of body. Turning on/off did not help. Got car towed to dealer, was told computer "registered misfires". Dealer upgrading "engine computer software".

Car spent a night at dealer's:
FOUND P0300, P0302 AND P0307. FOUND TSB 10-FL-015 FOR REPROGRAMMING OF ECU FOR P0300. 39110F3R 0.3 1401 N69 C40 PERFORMED REPROGRAMMING OF ECU PER HMA TSB 10-FL-015.

Car runs fine now.

 

[redixon]

My wife's car, a 2010 Genesis 4.6 just had a similar problem. It had sat for 5 days and when started the engine sounded like it was coming apart. Deep knocking similar to rods and extremely loud. Shut off and restarted same thing. After about 20 seconds began to quiet down. Had vehicle transported to dealer and made same noise when started. Preliminary diagnosis was fuel flooding cylinders flushing out residual oil. Checking oil for fuel and I am having oil analysis done to look for ferrous and other metalic particles. Car has 17,100 miles. Not a happy camper right now. It is hard to believe that damage was not done to the engine as loud as the noise was.

 

[3 tons]

Your fault?? I'd think about filing a complaint with Hyundai direct. This corrupt dealer is trying to blow smoke up your skirt.

 

[Aquineas]

I wonder if this might be related?

 

[borregoguy]

I know that this probably wouldnt make any of you Genesis V8 owners feel any better about this problem, but, over on the Kia Borrego forum, the owners are complaining about the same problem. My Borrego Limited (V8) has not experienced this problem (yet). I know that Hyundai/Kia needs to solve this ASAP.
Robert V

 

[redixon]

Follow up to my previous post on 12-01-10

I had the Genesis 4.6 delivered to the dealer on November 29. When it arrived the service manager started the car and heard the noise (now diminished since the car had run periodically for a minute or so over the time frame). They let it sit for a week periodically starting the car. Noise never occurred again. I use Mobil 1 in the vehicle and they drained it out putting in a lesser quality oil still no difference. They indicated the less expensive oil was in case they needed to go into the engine. Upon leaving they refilled the car with the Mobil 1 and said they could not duplicate the issue and had no idea what caused it UNLESS the injectors had flooded the cylinders washing out the residual oil causing a start up with no oil on the moving parts.

They simply don't know what is causing this or if they do they are keeping it under their vest.

This engine soulded like it was coming apart. I am convinced that repeat occurences will damage the tolerances allowed.

Guess I am waitng for the next time

 

[MrB0462]

Was away for 15 days and started car this morning. Yes it has been cold here. Major noise like an old diesel starting up,

Took it to a dealer it showed 2 codes, P0300 and P0305 both indicate a misfire.

They have no idea why. They cleared the codes and I went home.

 

[BorregoV8]

Was away for 15 days and started car this morning. Yes it has been cold here. Major noise like an old diesel starting up,

Took it to a dealer it showed 2 codes, P0300 and P0305 both indicate a misfire.

They have no idea why. They cleared the codes and I went home.

Ha My KIA dealer did the same thing. They pretend like they have no idea what im talking about. I got "well its fine now, no codes."

 

[Genny10]

Mine did this last week. I had not started it in 5 days and it was fairly cool outside (40 degrees). Heard a loud pop, black smoke poured out the tailpipe, engine shook like it was running on fewer cylinders and the engine light blinked. Smelled a little like burnt rubber. Let it run for about 15 seconds and turned it off. Looked under the hood - nothing. Restarted - ran perfect and no problems since.

Took it to my dealer the next day and he played dumb. Said he never heard of this and they are a big Dallas dealer. I've had this same problem with this dealer - always plays dumb when I mention something (first time I took it in for the common problem of the tilt not going up he played dumb - next time he admitted they were seeing the problem). I remembered seeing this thread. With this many people on this small forum, it's obviously a problem.

 

[wallymn]

Well Add me to the list (maybe)... started the car to move it Christmas eve,
(started it, warmed for 90 seconds.. moved it 15 ft).. then next morning started and it sounded really really rough... check engine light blinked on/off

shutdown, restarted 10 minutes later, started fine. check engine was on (not blinking).... scheduled service for Monday.. Today I had to use it, started, check engine light is not on...

I do think the rough start was a result of the quick run in cold temps (15 degrees) followed by a long sit (12 hours)...

I will see what the dealer says tomorrow. but I don't understand why the code would clear by itself.. this does not seem like a good design.

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[wallymn]

Well Add me to the list (maybe)... started the car to move it Christmas eve,
(started it, warmed for 90 seconds.. moved it 15 ft).. then next morning started and it sounded really really rough... check engine light blinked on/off

shutdown, restarted 10 minutes later, started fine. check engine was on (not blinking).... scheduled service for Monday.. Today I had to use it, started, check engine light is not on...

I do think the rough start was a result of the quick run in cold temps (15 degrees) followed by a long sit (12 hours)...

I will see what the dealer says tomorrow. but I don't understand why the code would clear by itself.. this does not seem like a good design.

Back from the dealer... there were misfire report codes (3). and a cause believed to be found...
The secondary air filter was not seated to the frame correctly,,, due to lots of snow, snow/water was in the box (some still puddled at the bottom)... The belief is the water was able to get by the incorrectly installed secondary air filter...
The brace for that filter was broken, (there are 5 tabs which hold it to the frame)... That was repaired. Codes cleared... oil changed
and tires correctly mounted (my directional snows were mounted in the wrong direction by my old dealer, how did I miss that!)...

I don't know what broke the air filter frame or when it happened but this is my first service visit to the dealer I bought the car from (Walser , as I just moved close to this dealer)...
I am sure it just in my head but the car seems to pull much stronger after the dealer visit...

FYI, before the car was checked their first question was about a change in gas station or brand , which of course there was due to the move. but the tech felt the water getting through the air filter was more likely...
Note: While I use a k&N filter this issue has nothing to do with that.. (other than perhaps the old dealer may have broken the secondary filter when installing the K&N)...

 

[BMW Diehard]

"...hence some valve in there somewhere didn't close all the way and allowed raw fuel to leak into the cylinders all night hence flooding out the motor."

Ummm... what valve is "open" that allows fuel to flow with the engine off? Modern engines use fuel injectors that require electrical current to allow fuel flow; they are spring-loaded closed. With the engine OFF, there should be no fuel "leaking" into the cylinders. If there is such a mechanism on these engines, that sounds like a design screw-up to me. If raw gas is allowed to accumulate in the cylinders, while the engine is OFF, that means:
* raw gas is going to get blasted out the tailpipe next time you start. Horrible smog/emissions. And no way would that be legal.

* that raw gas is going to destroy the catalytic converters rapidly. Since they are an "emissions critical component" they have a long warranty... no way any car manufacturer will design something that risks the converters.

* if enough gas accumulates in the cylinder, the next time the engine is started it's possible it can "hydro-lock." I.e. the volume of liquid gas could be larger than the remaining volume in the cylinder when the piston is all the way up. Remember the recent pictures of the Genesis block blown apart from ingesting water? That's exactly what can happen with gas trapped in the cylinders too. Any incompressible liquid... oil, water, gas, etc.

Most modern engines have one fuel injector per cylinder, either aimed right at the intake valve ("multi-port port fuel injection") or in the cyl head injecting directly into the cylinder ("direct injection" like a diesel engine) and perhaps an additional "cold start" injector in the intake manifold. I wonder if the cold-start injector is the "valve" your dealer meant? It shouldn't "stick open" with the engine OFF. If it does, the injector is bad and needs to be replaced. Water in the gas can lead to rust buildup inside injectors, grit/dirt or other crud in the gas also leads to sticking injectors. Such injectors need to be properly cleaned or replaced.

I'd go back to the dealer and get details on this "valve" that didn't have time to close fully, and ask them to explain how gas can be "leaking" into a shut-off engine. I'll have to browse the online service manuals to see if I can see such a potential design flaw. I routinely start my car for just a few seconds to move it in/out of the garage if I want to do woodworking in the garage. My other cars I can just put the tranny in neutral and release the parking brake; they'll roll down the slight garage floor/driveway slope on their own. I can't do that with the Genesis though since the tranny won't shift out of Park unless the "ignition key" is ON so I just start it and drive it out. A few hours later I start it and back it into the garage again.

Finding gas in the oil typically means one (or more) fuel injectors have jammed open or otherwise leak. Very bad. You'll get lousy emissions, lousy MPG, wear out the catalytic converters more rapidly, etc. What's happening is all that excess gas, in one cylinder, floods that cylinder. It doesn't burn properly (too rich - too much gas, not enough oxygen) and the gas washes the cylinder walls clean of oil... and then that gas gets past the piston rings and ends up dripping into the oil pan. So the piston rings and cylinder wall can wear more rapidly. Plus gas in the oil is also dangerous for the rest of the engine: gas is almost as bad as water in the oil. The engine bearings will get clobbered by the gas. After one or two highway jaunts, I'd change the oil and filter again on this engine. A normal oil change often won't get all traces of gas out of the oil galleries, oil cooler, etc. A few oil changes (with cheap oil) is the usual recommended procedure; after a few changes use a quality oil for the final oil change.

mike c.

I like this guy ....

 

[redixon]

Hey all,

Quick Question....Hyundai has always sent surveys to be completed on their service departments performance. My dealer is adamant that if I can't answer positive on every issue to call them prior to submitting the survey. (I don't do that nor do I always have positive reports). I have completeded one everytime I have had the car in...... EXCEPT....for the Shake Rattle and Roll issue. Frankly I was looking forward to it but no emailed survey.

Have you experienced the same thing or have you received surveys and I perhaps missed mine? Are they deliberately not sending surveys on what could become an issue down the road?

Like to know.

 

[Genny10]

Did it again. This time the engine light stayed on. Took it in and the dealer showed that it threw a code for a misfire. They reprogrammed the ECM. There is a TSB on this 10-FL-015.

 

[batch]

There is a TSB on this 10-FL-015.

Post it please?

 

[2010_vl]

You can get this and other TSBs at hmaservice.com. It's free. Select Genesis sedan and then look under Fuel System.

 

[batch]

You can get this and other TSBs at hmaservice.com. It's free. Select Genesis sedan and then look under Fuel System.

thanks for helping an obvious non-owner (likely soon to be - waiting on 5.0 and pay off family minivan).

I was disappointed in the very abbreviated problem description on TSB and lack of detail around what the ecm update changed.

Curious, has the ecm update solved the problem for those that had it performed?

 

[ritlands]

I have a 2010 Genesis 4.6, and just experienced the dreaded Shake Rattle and Role. It coded as P0303 and was reproducible and did not self correct. I took it t at 13,700 miles. I took it to the dealer and they performed the TSB 10-FL-015 ECU update with their usual professionalism (this isn't the first problem I've had with this car). I picked it back up tonight and the engine light is now off but it does idle "differently" than before - noisier, slightly rough.
I will post an update in a week or so on whether this ECU fix has worked. Given the severity of the shake rattle and roll symptoms, I share the concern from an earlier post that this is not a trivial, one-off problem that leaves your Tau unscarred.

 

[homeofstone]

I have a 2010 Genesis 4.6, and just experienced the dreaded Shake Rattle and Role. It coded as P0303 and was reproducible and did not self correct. I took it t at 13,700 miles. I took it to the dealer and they performed the TSB 10-FL-015 ECU update with their usual professionalism (this isn't the first problem I've had with this car). I picked it back up tonight and the engine light is now off but it does idle "differently" than before - noisier, slightly rough.
I will post an update in a week or so on whether this ECU fix has worked. Given the severity of the shake rattle and roll symptoms, I share the concern from an earlier post that this is not a trivial, one-off problem that leaves your Tau unscarred.

You should take it back to the dealer and and have the engine checked if it is running ruff. The V8 4.6 should run smooth as silk, mine does.

 

[TexasGenesis4.6]

Well, mine happened this morning. Drove it straight to the dealer with the check engine light still on (I only live 5 mins from dealer). They told me the only codes it was throwing was that throttle body sensor was bad. They said they would replace the sensor, and do a customary ecu update and the combo would take about an hour. 45 minutes later svc. mgr. came out and told me they were having "complications" and that they would give me a loaner car and call me later. They called me back later in the day to tell me they were replacing the entire throttle body.

Now I'm no genius, but it sounds like they are replacing a mountain instead of a molehill. It sounded like they didn't really know exactly what the repair plan was and decided to replace the whole unit since Hyundai would cover it under warranty. I'm at 13,700 miles. This scares me a little, that and the fact that the shop doesn't have a single person over 40 in the repair bay.