Got The Cold Start Shake Rattle And Roll This Morning YEIKS!

ritlands

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Updating an earlier post on this issue. My Genesis is a 2010 4.6 tau, and I had the acute shake rattle and roll early in 2011 and it coded with multiple cylinder misfire. The dealer did the TSB 10-FL-015 ECU fix and reset the check engine light. Since that time, I have experienced 6 "rough cold starts" with uneven idle but no engine code. Most of the time the engine idle and start is just fine. I have 21k miles on the car. I will bring the car back into the dealer for a different issue with bluetooth (will no longer connect to my blackberry or any other phone for that matter...in my experience their technology package is impressively underwhelming in its design and reliability) and will let them know about the rough starts. Did anyone have them successfully fix anything other than the TSB 10-FL-015 ECU for this engine problem? I really do want to like this car, but there are days that I sorely miss my A6...
 

ayersco

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I had Shake Rattle & Roll start yesterday evening, nasty! The first problem I've had with my '09 4.6 since I bought it. Had it towed to the dealer this morning, can't wait to see what they have to say!
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Did anyone have them successfully fix anything other than the TSB 10-FL-015 ECU for this engine problem? I really do want to like this car, but there are days that I sorely miss my A6...
Having read various posts about the problem in this forum for the last 3 years, the best advice to avoid the misfire is to never shut off the 4.6 engine before it has warmed up, especially in cold weather. Using a full synthetic motor oil may also help, and also help a little with rough starts.
 

redixon

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Ritlands and Aersco

Read previous posts that I have made re: the rough starts. There was a definite problem with my engine and I am sure others are out there which are the same.

Ask you dealer to follow some of the troubleshooting that my service manager did and in particular the compression and leak tests. It might be revealing and lead to the real problem.

I know of one other engine that was replaced after doing those tests.

I am still waiting for my dealer to get an R Spec for me.
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ayersco

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Had a wonderful report from my "Service Tech Laura" - remember the car was towed because it didn't run and the service light was on - Laura said: At this time vehicle does not have any engine noise, yes the codes came up for P0300 random misfire / P030 misfire cyl #3 / P040 misfire cyl #4 / P060 misfire cyl #6 - Vehicle is not misfiring. - Recommend oil change to inspect aftermarket oil filter installation. - Performed oil service with mobil 1. - Filter was aftermarket but was approved to be of the correct materials. Cleared codes, started vehicle, no noise present and no misfires detected. operation is normal.

All I can say is WOW! what a crock of crap. I guess we're trying to avoid a recall.
 

redixon

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Last night my wife and I were going out to dinner. She started her 2010 Genesis 4.6 with the REPLACED NEW ENGINE and guess what...............Knocking, Banging, Shaking, Blue Smoke everywhere, Engine Light on.

The engine was replaced in her car because of damage from this very thing and now the new engine with 5000 miles on it does the same thing. The problem has to be in the computer and the injection system.

Can't wait for the dealer to open this morning. I have had enough.
 

ayersco

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I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. Hyundai has to be aware there is a serious problem with the computer or the programing. I'm mostly concerned that when this multiple misfire does happen there may some long term damage to the mechanical components and they may not become apparent until the engine gets past the warranty. So far no one is taking any responsibility for whats happening and I'm seeing a lot of passing the buck back to the owners.
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
Last night my wife and I were going out to dinner. She started her 2010 Genesis 4.6 with the REPLACED NEW ENGINE and guess what...............Knocking, Banging, Shaking, Blue Smoke everywhere, Engine Light on.

The engine was replaced in her car because of damage from this very thing and now the new engine with 5000 miles on it does the same thing. The problem has to be in the computer and the injection system.

Can't wait for the dealer to open this morning. I have had enough.
I am not sure if you have read all the posts in this or other related threads, but I believe it is a mechanical issue. When the engine is not fully warmed up and it is shut off, some of the engine components (probably valves, but maybe others) are not in the right position for startup, probably due to higher friction in the engine when not fully warmed up. This is consistent with everything that has been described about these occurrences, and it seems unlikely that it would be caused by the computer.

Personally, I would use a 5W-20 Full Synthetic to help minimize friction at colder temps, and try hard to remember to never shut off the engine if it is not fully warmed up yet.
______________________________
 

Mark_888

Registered Member
13,335
121
63
Genesis Model Type
1G Genesis Sedan (2009-2014)
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting. Hyundai has to be aware there is a serious problem with the computer or the programing. I'm mostly concerned that when this multiple misfire does happen there may some long term damage to the mechanical components and they may not become apparent until the engine gets past the warranty. So far no one is taking any responsibility for whats happening and I'm seeing a lot of passing the buck back to the owners.
I think it is presumptuous to assume it is a computer/programming issue (see my post above). This issue has been reported going back more than 3 years since the initial 2009 4.6 model. I suspect that they can't fix it without a redesign of the engine (maybe 5.0 GDI has addressed the issue, I don't know).
 
Last night my wife and I were going out to dinner. She started her 2010 Genesis 4.6 with the REPLACED NEW ENGINE and guess what...............Knocking, Banging, Shaking, Blue Smoke everywhere, Engine Light on.

The engine was replaced in her car because of damage from this very thing and now the new engine with 5000 miles on it does the same thing. The problem has to be in the computer and the injection system.

Can't wait for the dealer to open this morning. I have had enough.
Did you ask her how she'd parked it before this trip to dinner? For example, had it been in the driveway and she just pulled a few feet into the garage while still in fast idle? Or had she actually driven the car for a while and then parked it while fully warm?
Not saying it SHOULD matter, only that it seems to be A cause of what you've experienced twice now (for others). Mark gives technical reasons elsewhere, but I use this analogy:
You reboot a computer (start the car) and power it off during the boot-up (turn the car off). I can't imagine that's good for the computer (car), and you're likely to get some kind of error message (shakes, codes) next time you boot up.
 

rileybreed

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I had the "diesel" sound in my engine (Borrego 4.6 Tau V8) and service manager sent a video of it to Kia. Kia told them to strip down the engine and find the problem. After 3 weeks of inspecting every single part, the pistons were found to be out of round. Apparently there is a teflon coating on the pistons that wore off and "ovalled"(not a word but you get the point). So Kia Korea is having to make new pistons and ship them over since replacements are not stocked yet. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen again? Maybe there was a bad batch? Otherwise the engine is wonderful. Kia seemed to be a victim of bad timing bringing this out a few years too late....
Apparently they have also had 3 others they have replaced because of this all at varying amounts of distances driven on the engine. While not enough cases for a recall yet, it may be something for them to look at if you have that engine. It may spawn a recall and possibly making better pistons for them.
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Stoofpilot

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Do a search of my post on cold start problem. I had the same symptoms. Misfire, blue smoke, etc. in my old post I list the TSB that they used to refresh the ECU. This is a computer problem, not an engine issue. Now my 4.6 runs smooth, no cold start issue and the big benefit was no hesitation when applying throttle. I am very satisfied with the reflash. Took an hour.
 

Cut-Throat

Registered Member
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3
18
Minneapolis
Do a search of my post on cold start problem. I had the same symptoms. Misfire, blue smoke, etc. in my old post I list the TSB that they used to refresh the ECU. This is a computer problem, not an engine issue. Now my 4.6 runs smooth, no cold start issue and the big benefit was no hesitation when applying throttle. I am very satisfied with the reflash. Took an hour.
Again, there is no TSB on 2011 and later models.
 
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snork

Registered Member
283
7
18
North NJ
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
Having read various posts about the problem in this forum for the last 3 years, the best advice to avoid the misfire is to never shut off the 4.6 engine before it has warmed up, especially in cold weather. Using a full synthetic motor oil may also help, and also help a little with rough starts.
I am not sure if you have read all the posts in this or other related threads, but I believe it is a mechanical issue. When the engine is not fully warmed up and it is shut off, some of the engine components (probably valves, but maybe others) are not in the right position for startup, probably due to higher friction in the engine when not fully warmed up. This is consistent with everything that has been described about these occurrences, and it seems unlikely that it would be caused by the computer.

Personally, I would use a 5W-20 Full Synthetic to help minimize friction at colder temps, and try hard to remember to never shut off the engine if it is not fully warmed up yet.
+1 For the issue actually being related to the engine not being shutoff prior to being warmed up. It just happened to me for the first time last week. It rattled about for 3-4 seconds and then settled right down to it's normal smoothness, no check engine lights. The previous night I moved the car out of the driveway to unblock my wife's car and shut it back down, only ran about 90 seconds, and the temps here just starting to drop into the low 40s. I'm inclined to believe the fellow conclusions that the issue resolves around engine oil pressure (or lack thereof) leading to a slack timing chain for a few seconds on start-up.

I agree this is somewhat of a design fault, but I don't see how it's really fixable. I've made the mental note to let it run in future, I also try to not move any of my cars during the "fast idle" immediately following start-up.
 

Cut-Throat

Registered Member
926
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Minneapolis
I agree this is somewhat of a design fault, but I don't see how it's really fixable. I've made the mental note to let it run in future, I also try to not move any of my cars during the "fast idle" immediately following start-up.
My Lexus GS350 did the same thing.....Probably just Physics.
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tsx240

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So I have read this whole post. Riddle me this...I had my car about a year or so, 2011 4.6, 18K, Tech and I started my car up at work after a very hot day. 90F+. I got the shake rattle/roll and then it smoothed out. I called Borman Hyundai, Las Cruces and they didnt know anything! They told me if I have a engine light that comes on and off then they can do anything! It has to stay on for them to see a code.

I then remembered I stopped at a no-name gas station and got ethanol free gas. With this tank my car ran rough at startup the whole time I had this gas. When the gas was gone I filled up with SHELL, I only use shell now and I have never had the same issue again. Ever. Its been over 3 months. It sounds like our cars have computer issues with environmental changes such as temp and water content in gasoline or low quality gas? I have never seen this in cars before.
 

homeofstone

Registered Member
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22
38
Athens, Georgia, USA
So I have read this whole post. Riddle me this...I had my car about a year or so, 2011 4.6, 18K, Tech and I started my car up at work after a very hot day. 90F+. I got the shake rattle/roll and then it smoothed out. I called Borman Hyundai, Las Cruces and they didnt know anything! They told me if I have a engine light that comes on and off then they can do anything! It has to stay on for them to see a code.

I then remembered I stopped at a no-name gas station and got ethanol free gas. With this tank my car ran rough at startup the whole time I had this gas. When the gas was gone I filled up with SHELL, I only use shell now and I have never had the same issue again. Ever. Its been over 3 months. It sounds like our cars have computer issues with environmental changes such as temp and water content in gasoline or low quality gas? I have never seen this in cars before.
I also think you got some contaminated gas. It could have had diesel fuel or water or both in it.
 

Aquineas

Been here awhile...
SUSTAINING MEMBER
2,880
38
48
Georgetown, TX
Genesis Model Type
2G Genesis Sedan (2015-2016)
So I have read this whole post. Riddle me this...I had my car about a year or so, 2011 4.6, 18K, Tech and I started my car up at work after a very hot day. 90F+. I got the shake rattle/roll and then it smoothed out. I called Borman Hyundai, Las Cruces and they didnt know anything! They told me if I have a engine light that comes on and off then they can do anything! It has to stay on for them to see a code.
I thought the engine management computer kept a history?
 
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