Hard Drive Question

[Twain427]

When I started my car this cold morning, I heard and observed my hard drive "hiccup" - definite sounds of the R/W heads resetting and unsettling flickers on the display. The system successfully recovered and began operating as normal.

I fear this event merely signifies the clock has started and it is now just a matter of time before the HDD fails. So, looking ahead, should this occur, does anyone know if a specific make and model of HDD is required? Like all parts on all cars, the HDD was most certainly "low bid". If the HDD fails, could I slip the dealership a top of the line drive? Will the system possibly accept a solid state drive like found in 2013 Genesis models?

Thanks for your thoughts...

 

[homeofstone]

I do not think just the hard drive can be replaced by itself, only the complete unit. If it was really cold in your area last night that could explain what happend.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Hmmm. I wonder if someone has ripped far enough into the unit to figure out the answer to this question. IMHO, it would be a very worthwhile upgrade.

OP - what is your line of work?

 

[dcuccia]

I'd be interested too - it'd be pretty neat if a 2012 or earlier could be upgraded with an SSD (e.g. exactly cloned with Acronis TrueImage or Norton Ghost). Wouldn't work if the Genny firmware checked the particular HDD serial number, etc.

 

[Twain427]

OneFunGenesis: I am in property management - far, far away from the world of IT. I don't know if that is why you're asking or not, however my knowledge of this topic is decent but I do not possess any sort of in-depth training or insight.

HomeofStone: I would very interested in knowing if the HDD was hardwired. While I can see the benefits of this from a manufacturing standpoint, I can also see the error in this from a replacement cost standpoint. While Hyundai would have little care of the end user's cost for replacement, they must take into account there could be replacements under warranty. Certainly having a dealership replace a single HDD rather an entire head unit would be more cost effective.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

That is why I am asking lol.

And it is a great idea to ghost and clone the HDD. The check of serials would concern me, but very little. There would be no reason for this system to check that. It isn't a secure and encrypted system like a gov't system.

Can the BIOS then be flashed on the headunit if it does check serials?? Question for the ages. lol

 

[mikec]

Tech/DIS package system? If so... The factory service manuals show procedures for removing the DVD drive and the hard disk. Both seem to be fairly standard looking components. And both look quite easy to remove:
1: I'd eject all cds/dvds before starting though the service manual doesn't mention this.
2: disconnect battery negative cable
3: Pry off the bodywork/interior faceplate in front of the DIS head unit. Unplug the cable going to the round volume knob before pulling the faceplate too far.
4: remove 4 mounting screws and pull the head unit out a bit, then unplug a bunch of cables at the rear of the unit. Warning: one of the cables is pretty small and fragile according to other posts on this forum.
5: CD/DVD drive removes via 5 screws on the top of the head unit.
6: hard drive apparently is held in by one screw at the top of a small cover panel; then it slides out enough to have the cable unplugged.

Those are the steps in the factory service manual. Looking at the diagrams it seems like you could leave the head unit in the dash - skipping steps 4 and 5 - and just remove the hard drive itself.

No idea if the hard drive is IDE, SATA, or something proprietary. The rough sketch shows one flat ribbon-style cable for the hard drive. And there is no mention of what kind of format it uses: 512 byte sectors or 4096 byte physical sectors, nor what the file system is: FAT based, NTFS, Ext, or something proprietary. If you found disk cloning software that did true physical by physical sector copies (rather than file by file copying) then you might be able to clone the drive. I've been curious myself... is the drive a standard part? Is the file system something than can be processed via Windows, Linux, or some other readily available system?

mike c.

 

[PMCErnie]

Good rule of thumb: Before attempting brain surgery, check status of warranty.

 

[homeofstone]

Tech/DIS package system? If so... The factory service manuals show procedures for removing the DVD drive and the hard disk. Both seem to be fairly standard looking components. And both look quite easy to remove:
1: I'd eject all cds/dvds before starting though the service manual doesn't mention this.
2: disconnect battery negative cable
3: Pry off the bodywork/interior faceplate in front of the DIS head unit. Unplug the cable going to the round volume knob before pulling the faceplate too far.
4: remove 4 mounting screws and pull the head unit out a bit, then unplug a bunch of cables at the rear of the unit. Warning: one of the cables is pretty small and fragile according to other posts on this forum.
5: CD/DVD drive removes via 5 screws on the top of the head unit.
6: hard drive apparently is held in by one screw at the top of a small cover panel; then it slides out enough to have the cable unplugged.

Those are the steps in the factory service manual. Looking at the diagrams it seems like you could leave the head unit in the dash - skipping steps 4 and 5 - and just remove the hard drive itself.

No idea if the hard drive is IDE, SATA, or something proprietary. The rough sketch shows one flat ribbon-style cable for the hard drive. And there is no mention of what kind of format it uses: 512 byte sectors or 4096 byte physical sectors, nor what the file system is: FAT based, NTFS, Ext, or something proprietary. If you found disk cloning software that did true physical by physical sector copies (rather than file by file copying) then you might be able to clone the drive. I've been curious myself... is the drive a standard part? Is the file system something than can be processed via Windows, Linux, or some other readily available system?

mike c.

Very good info mike c. maybe it will not be too much longer berfore someone finds the answers to the questions you pose. But given the cost of a complete unit, after warranty is out it would be at least worth attempting a DIY hard drive fix.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Good info Mike. I couldn't see this being and IDE connection. But, then again, I think the tech in our cars is a little behind the times, so you never know.

I know there is sector by sector cloning software, but I don't think its cheap. I would love someone do pull that drive out! Wondering all of the things you are thinking lol

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[landtuna]

Here are some guesses (and only guesses) on the hard drive:

1. NTFS is Windows proprietary and the HD is not networked so no need for unnecessary security and overhead. I'm guessing format is FAT.

2. Don't see the need for any type of specialty HD except that it must endure significantly more vibration than in a desktop. I suspect it might be a laptop-type or (if Hyundai really wants to spend money) Mil-spec.

3. I'm pretty certain the ribbon cable means it is IDE. Although SATA is the state of the art now in computers the added speed really isn't necessary in its read-only mode in the car.

4. HD's are pretty generic these days so the drive is probably plug and play. As for the type of sectors and formatting perhaps a call to the map suppliers would provide that.

 

[mikec]

Somewhere either on this site or some literature somewhere there was info on the type of processor used in the Lexicon head unit and the operating system. My memory says they were those specialized ones used in automation systems, industrial process control systems, etc... i.e. not your typical x86, ARM, Windows, or Linux based setups. Thus my expectation that the file system on the hard drive will be something other than NTFS, FAT, or Ext and thus will take a bit of effort to "read" without resorting to sector-by-sector copying.

One thing about the factory service manual picture/sketch: it showed one cable that looked too small for regular IDE, too big for SATA. Though this is a sketch. And it was a single cable - no smaller cable for power. Laptop 2.5 inch IDE drives can get power via their reduced-size IDE cable though so that's my guess as to the drive type. You can buy "laptop drive IDE" to regular IDE cable adapters fairly easily... then all you need is an older PC with IDE ports!

mike c.

 

[Twain427]

I do not get the feeling the HDD is used to operate any part of the entertainment/nav system, rather only exists to store and provide data for navigation only. That is not to suggest the HDD is not necessary. The system would most certainly throw a code if the HDD was absent. My point is, if I am correct and the HDD is only data storage for nav then just about any blank drive, given the correct connections, would work. I would believe the OS is hardware based.. I've been in the engineering menus and do recall various HDD functions. I would have to look again but would one of them be used to format a new drive? Who is to say when a new drive is connected the system, when in the engineering menu, recognizes such and prompts to format?

Questions that lead to questions which lead to more questions... You'd think out of all the people on this forum someone, somewhere, would know someone with a cousin who works for Lexicon or the likes..

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Lots of speculation in here from some pretty good IT guys lol.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

OFG, you are a smart technology guy and have a tech package. You should go for it and report in. You might carve a new path for everyone else.

 

[landtuna]

If the HDD fails, could I slip the dealership a top of the line drive?

The HDD in the pre-2013 Genesis is very small - only 30GB - since it stores only nav data. A drive this small wouldn't have much application in computer systems so I'm thinking it is some sort of unique unit.

Will the system possibly accept a solid state drive like found in 2013 Genesis models?

If (and it's a BIG if) the SSD "looks" like the HDD to the software than a plug and play replacement may be possible. If it doesn't then the software would need the proper driver to communicate with the SSD.

I could find no technical information on either Genesis HDD or SSD online so far. A company called STEC seems to be one of the major SSD builders for embedded apps,

 

[OneFunGenesis]

I would if the entire thing wasn't still under warranty until 2018....

 

[Addison33]

Well we are talking about Hard Driver here i just want to say you that if you want to get good speed of your computer and reading your data in files opening then you should make the Fat format partitions of your HDD because this is the main thing which makes your computer faster and never detect any bad sector in your HDD.........

 

[consilius]

Considering I just replaced the HDD in mine, it turns out that the HDD uses the 44 pin (IDE/PATA) 2.5" drive which is then connected to another ribbon cable.

Left is the New one. Right is the Original. It is a 40GB Capacity.

I did purchase an SSD and also purchased a SATA to 44 pin IDE/PATA converter and install it when it arrives. Will keep everyone posted.

 

[dmitriylm]

Considering I just replaced the HDD in mine, it turns out that the HDD uses the 44 pin (IDE/PATA) 2.5" drive which is then connected to another ribbon cable.

Left is the New one. Right is the Original. It is a 40GB Capacity.

I did purchase an SSD and also purchased a SATA to 44 pin IDE/PATA converter and install it when it arrives. Will keep everyone posted.

Good stuff man! Looks like a very straigh forward replacement. Are you cloning the drives? I'm assuming just inserting a blank formatted drive would be problematic as the navigation depends on mapping data stored on the drive (along with whatever else the drive is used for).