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High-end Lexicon Sound System - Anemic Bass?

JPW

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I do not currently own a Genesis but have completed four test drives now and hope to own one soon. In one of the test drives I drove a V8 with the Tech Package which includes the upgraded Lexcion sound system. After hearing so much around this sound system I had high expectations but came away disappointed. I thought I might share a little bit here to see if others are having similar experiences. Obviously the owners (as opposed to me) have had much more time to fully critique the sound quality.

Personally, I don't think I look for too much in a car sound system but unfortunately I find most don't meet my requirements. First, I wish car companies would place more emphasis on amp quality and speaker sensitivity (db/watt). What I find is that many car stereos sound good when all the windows are rolled up but when you roll one down many don't have the volume to hear the music well. I'm not sure whether the Genesis falls in to this category or not. Secondly, I feel the sound system should allow you to broadly balance all the frequencies across the range. Adjustment of bass and treble on most systems will allow you to do this but here is where I feel the High-end Lexicon system has fallen short. Let me elaborate.

In my 2003 Honda Accord I have the bass set to -3. No one would consider me to be someone that is a "bassaholic." It sounds fine when all the windows are rolled up but doesn't have the volume when a window is rolled down (not too surprising given the system). Recently I drove a V8 Genesis with the Tech Package which included the high-end Lexicon system. I thought the mids and highs sounded great. What I could not believe was the lack of bass. I had it at +10, had the fader set to the middle of the car, and ran through every sound option I could find. Nothing seemed to be set incorrectly and yet the bass was far less pronounced than what I hear in my 2003 Honda Accord set at -3.

To be honest, I just don't get it. Are others hearing the same from their sound systems? Where is your bass currently set? Is there a trend toward people really having to turn the bass up?

My hope was that something was either broken or a setting wasn't correct on the Geneis I drove because I just don't see how a system that has a subwoofer could have far less bass than one that doesn't but I'm certain what I heard. Ultimately, I never thought a stock stereo system wouldn't have enough bass for me, again, because I'm not a bassaholic, but I'm starting to wonder about what my options might be for the Genesis in this case and that depresses me a bit since I'm someone that mostly likes to keep a car completely stock rather than customizing anything.

Any opinions or thoughts appreciated.
 
Try a different car to test drive and bring your own material with substantial bass content in the source recording. If you want to test specifically test the 7.1 system, there is a thread on this forum with recommended music that you should try.
 
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I am no expert on auto sound systems but the Lexicon in my V8/tech package sound excellent to me. I have the bass set at +3 and I can feel the bass in my driver's seat. If I turn up the volume I could go deaf before the end of a song. Perhaps you should check out another V8 Genesis with the Tech pkg.
 
Great points. If you are feeling bass in your seat with +3. I know I didn't feel that. It was audible but the other frequencies were overpowering the bass by a much greater degree.

To bring material I'm familiar with is another great suggestions. Do you think it would be a fair comparison to bring in a USB drive with low compression mp3s? I have yet to hear if the sound quality it dramatically different between a USB thumb drive and something like a CD.
 
Great points. If you are feeling bass in your seat with +3. I know I didn't feel that. It was audible but the other frequencies were overpowering the bass by a much greater degree.

To bring material I'm familiar with is another great suggestions. Do you think it would be a fair comparison to bring in a USB drive with low compression mp3s? I have yet to hear if the sound quality it dramatically different between a USB thumb drive and something like a CD.
My iPod sounds very good, so I assume the USB will sound fine if it is a good recording, but I would also try out a true 7.1 recording so you can really understand the difference between the 17 speaker Tech system and a normal high-end car audio system (but not necessarily related to bass volume).
 
Great points. If you are feeling bass in your seat with +3. I know I didn't feel that. It was audible but the other frequencies were overpowering the bass by a much greater degree.

To bring material I'm familiar with is another great suggestions. Do you think it would be a fair comparison to bring in a USB drive with low compression mp3s? I have yet to hear if the sound quality it dramatically different between a USB thumb drive and something like a CD.

I've not used a thumb drive as yet--no need to in my world. But, try a CD recently recorded. Make sure to set the EQ to your liking for this mode--it will rock your socks off. Mine certainly does--and I only have the 14-speaker version.

There is one thing I've noticed...when I start up the car (assuming I've left the radio/CD etc. turned on prior to shutting the car off), the gain level @ bass freqencies is fine. However, if I adjust the volume at all (not the EQ level, but the overall volume), the bass output will drop off somewhat. If I go to the screen that shows the level in that frequency range, it will show whatever level I left it at (Let's say 10, for example--I was really rockin' down the highway recently). I can achieve that intitial output by going back to the screen, activating the control for the bass frequencies, and turning it back up to 10--even though on the screen it never left the 10. There is a noticeable difference in output. Once I make that manual "adjustment", I can do whatever with the volume--it has no impact on any EQ adjustment. Thoughts, anyone? BTW, this same thing occurs regardless of the program material (CD, radio, etc.).

Dan :>)
 
DanTheMan, I think you may have lost me a bit. From your example, it seems you are saying the Bass can be left at +10 but after starting the car you don't neccesarily hear it at that level until you go in to the controls and mannually "adjust" it. Like you might drop it to +9 for a second and back to +10 just to get it to take.

Do I have that right or am I just completely off the mark?
 
I searched a bit through this forum some more and found some people commenting about the lack of bass as well. I think they may hearing what I've heard.

Conversely, I tried some searching on the web and found articles like the one below which really focus on the Genesis/Lexicon Sound System. This was a pretty good review from my perspective. I must admit I was a little surprised with the glowing comments around the audio's bass. I feel I like I just have to missing something.

http://www.hemagazine.com/Lexicon_Hyundai_Genesis_Audio_System
 
I searched a bit through this forum some more and found some people commenting about the lack of bass as well. I think they may hearing what I've heard.

Conversely, I tried some searching on the web and found articles like the one below which really focus on the Genesis/Lexicon Sound System. This was a pretty good review from my perspective. I must admit I was a little surprised with the glowing comments around the audio's bass. I feel I like I just have to missing something.

http://www.hemagazine.com/Lexicon_Hyundai_Genesis_Audio_System
The bottom line is that some people want to hear to bass (or exaggerated bass) even when there is little or no bass material in the original source recording, and other people are interested in accurate sound reproduction. The audio press that specialize in home systems are more likely to prefer accurate sound, as do most high-end OEM systems in luxury or upscale cars that I am aware of.

It should be obvious that a company that produced the sound system for the Rolls Royce is not going to create a ghetto blaster. If that is what is desired, then a custom system is needed. Perhaps a high-end OEM audio system for a car like the new Camaro might lean more to the exaggerated bass output that does the Genesis.
 
It should be obvious that a company that produced the sound system for the Rolls Royce is not going to create a ghetto blaster. If that is what is desired, then a custom system is needed. Perhaps a high-end OEM audio system for a car like the new Camaro might lean more to the exaggerated bass output that does the Genesis.

I respectfully disagree to a certain degree. I know Lexicon and its background well. For over 20 years I have owned a great deal of HiFi stereo equipment and home theater equipment for my dedicated home theater and at times obssesed over the equipment found in each.

Personally, I was a little disappointed to hear Hyundai try to leverage the fact that Lexicon was used in a Rolls Royce to somehow validate the equipment in the Genesis. To me that means nothing. Brand names don't mean much to me. I think most would say I try to be a realist about things and I look for objective data as well as my own experience to make decisions.

I would not buy Levinson home theater or HiFi equipment. I've listened to their products many times. They do appear to put a great deal of technology behind their equipment, the aesthetics are nice, and they are packed with functionality. However, after listening to one of their products like say an amp or a signal processor and you replace it with another costing half as much I suspect most couldn't tell the difference in an A/B comparison.

The other concern I have with Levinson is around their amplifier design. I know just enough information in this area to be dangerous (disclosure given) and nothing more but some items stick out. As I understand it good amplifiers need good sized capacitors. I don't see this in the Levinson equipment. Even when I look at the overall amp being used to drive the Levinson equipment I am a little surprised by how small it is for the number of speakers. I understand the concept of being able to mate the speakers with the amplifier and do agree with the logic there but subwoofers normally need something more and I have to think they are not being given enough power given the size of the amp.

Mark, I couldn't agree more about your comment regarding "accurate sound reproduction." Nothing ruins the listening experience for me more than to hear sound that suffers from the "boom and sizzle" effect (exaggerated highs and lows found in much of the consumer market). Remember in my initial post I stated that I have the bass set at -3 on my Honda Accord? This is the reasonable level I found to offer the flattest response over the frequency range. What I found on the Genesis was something else and it went in a completely different direction.

Again, even with the bass at +10 I didn't feel the output at the lower frequency range was anywhere near where the mids and highs were. Hyundai might think I've lost my mind but would probably allow if I asked is to bring a CD which will offer test tones throughout the frequencey range of 20 - 20,000 Hz. You could put a sound pressure level meter in the middle of the car and balance the fader to that point as well. Once you run the frequency sweep you could record all the points and see what the curve looks like. I hope to proven as wrong but I suspect we'll see a rolling off on the low end very early or perhaps another anomoly like a large dip from 200 Hz - 50 Hz. Who knows.

By the way, great dialogue here. Thanks for the feedback.
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DanTheMan, I think you may have lost me a bit. From your example, it seems you are saying the Bass can be left at +10 but after starting the car you don't neccesarily hear it at that level until you go in to the controls and mannually "adjust" it. Like you might drop it to +9 for a second and back to +10 just to get it to take.

Do I have that right or am I just completely off the mark?

You're not lost at all! That's what happens! The apparent drop in the bass response occurs when I manually adjust the overall radio volume. To achieve whatever bass level that was there before, I then have to manually adjust the bass frequency response, even though the display shows that it never actually changed. I don't manually adjust it to make it drop--that occurs when I change the volume. I do have to manually adjust it to get it back to the previous level.

Does that make 'better' sense? I know it sounds wierd, but it's been happening for a while.

Dan :>)
 
I hope to proven as wrong but I suspect we'll see a rolling off on the low end very early or perhaps another anomoly like a large dip from 200 Hz - 50 Hz. Who knows.

By the way, great dialogue here. Thanks for the feedback.

I would expect also to see a roll-off in the low end as you describe. I would be interested in seeing exactly what the frequency response for the speakers are in our cars. I would gather, based on the shape of the interior, that the range on each driver given the baffle space, etc., isn't anywhere near that low. So, since they don't have the advantage of building a sub box to match the length of the sub frequency wavelength, they have to do something to produce the thumping bass of today's music.

The discussion of accurate sound reproduction is on point with my prevous rant about source material and the '60s music (as an example) lack of broad frequency response. One would have to have access to the original masters and in fact re-master the program material to be able to create thumping bass in that material. Similarly, if car audio systems weren't built with the capability of producing low bass even if the program material offered it (recently recorded material, for example) then an EQ could "add" some of what's missing. The problem there is that when you add something that's not really there, you also add whatever other audio noise that's there as well--and in my opinion, that degrades the overall quality of the material being listened to. I personally would rather listen to a MoTown-era tune in the format and era in which it was originally recorded than try to enhance it too much and add the additional hiss and sibilance, etc. I would have rather been in the studio listening to those musicians play it....(hey, we can all dream a bit, can't we??)!!!

Dan :>)

PS: Having said all that, I like the quality of the bass response (after any adjustments) for playback material. It 'thumps' well to my liking, regardless of when the original recordings were made! For me, I would have rather had an active multi-band EQ to further contour the audio curve, but that's me dreaming again!
 
You're not lost at all! That's what happens! The apparent drop in the bass response occurs when I manually adjust the overall radio volume. To achieve whatever bass level that was there before, I then have to manually adjust the bass frequency response, even though the display shows that it never actually changed. I don't manually adjust it to make it drop--that occurs when I change the volume. I do have to manually adjust it to get it back to the previous level.

Does that make 'better' sense? I know it sounds wierd, but it's been happening for a while.

Wow, that would be incredibly frustrating for me. I wonder if there is some strange setting that might need to be changed. I know in some cars they can have the volume controlled by the amount of environmental noise. I don't think the Genesis has that but I can't be sure.

Dan, I would really be inclined to take it to the dealer. It sounds like what you are seeing is easily reproducible. I just hope they can hear the same thing you are or aren't just in denial that it exists.

Good luck.
 
I have a V8 with tech package and have looked at the frequency response a couple of month back.

First you can not expect to get equally good sound with windows up and down without changing the eq. No system can do that.

With windows up the bass is slightly exagerrated compared to 1Khz with bass at 0.

There are few systems that have a flat frequency response and most in room response curves are elevated towards the bass region. That is the expected behavior.

Cheers

Thomas
 
I apologize in advance for my lack of time...I've been really busy of late...so here are my thoughts on the Lexicon system (17 speaker in my case)

Like I said in my other thread...I'm disappointed in the level (output) of the bass in this system.
The sound quality is awesome on good sourced material BUT the low bass level is (I'm sorry to say this but) below par.

I have done some test and encourage you guys to do some too.
Maybe some systems are not tuned right!!!

I played numerous test tones but especially a 20hz to 120 hz sweep test file. I have from 5hz to 20,000hz test tones for testing purposes. You have to play with the fader while playing this test tone. The rear has NO POWER. The majority of the power is concentrated to the front speakers. (this is actually a good thing BUT the difference is too much!) I also noticed the low bass reproduction of the SUB woofer in the back is really poor. I'm actually VERY impressed by the low pass sound output non the front...very impressed!
I am NOT impressed with the sub output! The sub shakes like crazy and not much output/volume being reproduced.
Putting a separate amp with an enclosed SUB will make a HUGE difference and I will NO DOUBT add one in my car.

Here's what I noticed after testing my brains out for days with the V8/Tech system.

It is my opinion that the amp has been tuned to approx. 65% power going to front and 35% going to the rest. The sound quality to the front speakers is just unbelievably GOOD ! To me is way above average.
If the rest sounded like the front speakers...oops I think I'm dreaming now.

I will add my sub and amp this summer and will definitely keep you all posted. Actually I can't wait.

ALL this is JUST MY OPINION. a regular Joe Smoe opinion.

Regards,
 
I have a V8 with tech package and have looked at the frequency response a couple of month back.

First you can not expect to get equally good sound with windows up and down without changing the eq. No system can do that.

With windows up the bass is slightly exagerrated compared to 1Khz with bass at 0.

There are few systems that have a flat frequency response and most in room response curves are elevated towards the bass region. That is the expected behavior.


Hey Thomas. I couldn't agree more about the sound with the windows down. I don't think it makes much sense to evaluate the system's frequency response with the windows down. I would be a little curious to know how much volume headroom (legible db) the system has while driving down the road with the windows down because in my case I would hope a system has enough volume to offer you enough legible volume but you don't always see it.

That is excellent news about what you saw with the frequency response below 1Khz. I'm a little surprised to hear it was exaggerated with the bass set at 0 since I felt like my ears could hear practically nothing in the lower range at that level but again, I am hoping I just had something set wrong or the source material was playing tricks with me.

Unfortunately, I still want to know more :) I would still love to take an SPL meter and run a frequency sweep to gain some more specifics like really seeing what is happening below 1Khz. What does 40Hz look like compared to 80Hz and what does 80Hz look like compared 200, etc.? Are there any anomolys that stand out in that range below 1Khz. Of course if someone were to go to the trouble to do this that might as well take notes across the full range from 20Hz - 20,000Hz. It just might be interesting data to see. This leads me to throw out a proposition to anyone on the forum.

Since I don't own a Genesis yet I'm not sure how comfortable my dealer would feel with me running tests like this on their car(s). If you (anyone) happen to already own a sound pressure level meter and a disc with a frequency sweep perhaps you could volunteer to do this and offer this data to the forum. If you don't have this equipment I would be happy to send you mine and pay for return shipping if you wouldn't mind running the tests. In the event you live in the Houston, Texas area and own a Genesis and if you would be willing to meet to run these tests with my equipment that would be great too.

Thanks again for the feedback and just let me know if anyone else is interested in pursuing this.
 
I apologize in advance for my lack of time...I've been really busy of late...so here are my thoughts on the Lexicon system (17 speaker in my case)

Like I said in my other thread...I'm disappointed in the level (output) of the bass in this system.
The sound quality is awesome on good sourced material BUT the low bass level is (I'm sorry to say this but) below par.

I have done some test and encourage you guys to do some too.
Maybe some systems are not tuned right!!!

I played numerous test tones but especially a 20hz to 120 hz sweep test file. I have from 5hz to 20,000hz test tones for testing purposes. You have to play with the fader while playing this test tone. The rear has NO POWER. The majority of the power is concentrated to the front speakers. (this is actually a good thing BUT the difference is too much!) I also noticed the low bass reproduction of the SUB woofer in the back is really poor. I'm actually VERY impressed by the low pass sound output non the front...very impressed!
I am NOT impressed with the sub output! The sub shakes like crazy and not much output/volume being reproduced.
Putting a separate amp with an enclosed SUB will make a HUGE difference and I will NO DOUBT add one in my car.

Here's what I noticed after testing my brains out for days with the V8/Tech system.

It is my opinion that the amp has been tuned to approx. 65% power going to front and 35% going to the rest. The sound quality to the front speakers is just unbelievably GOOD ! To me is way above average.
If the rest sounded like the front speakers...oops I think I'm dreaming now.

I will add my sub and amp this summer and will definitely keep you all posted. Actually I can't wait.

ALL this is JUST MY OPINION. a regular Joe Smoe opinion.

Regards,

Unfortunately, what you are describing is EXACTLY what I noticed as well. In my mind the fader shouldn't have to be adjusted that much but I was doing the same thing to try and see if lowering the front would give a more pronounced effect of bass from the subwoofer in the back. It did some good but not nearly enough.

Did you happen to write any specifics from the frequency sweep you did? I would be really curious to see the peaks and valleys. I do think the only fair way to do the testing though is leave everything at default when you do the test. Have the fader set to the middle of the car and all eq adjustments to 0. I'm not sure if this is what most would do but would be inclined to put the SPL meter in the middle of the car. Probably just on the middle console would be fine.
 
Since I don't own a Genesis yet I'm not sure how comfortable my dealer would feel with me running tests like this on their car(s). If you (anyone) happen to already own a sound pressure level meter and a disc with a frequency sweep perhaps you could volunteer to do this and offer this data to the forum. If you don't have this equipment I would be happy to send you mine and pay for return shipping if you wouldn't mind running the tests. In the event you live in the Houston, Texas area and own a Genesis and if you would be willing to meet to run these tests with my equipment that would be great too.

Thanks again for the feedback and just let me know if anyone else is interested in pursuing this.

Okay, I will repeat my measurments and post the results on this thread. This will however take a bit since I need to move my measurement setup to the garage. I am using Acourate with a broadband signal for pretty precise results. Given the many speakers their is a lot of haircombing going.

Cheers

Thomas
 
Okay, I will repeat my measurments and post the results on this thread. This will however take a bit since I need to move my measurement setup to the garage. I am using Acourate with a broadband signal for pretty precise results. Given the many speakers their is a lot of haircombing going.

Great!! I can't wait to see the results. This should really be interesting. Again, if you wouldn't mind leaving all the settings at default as well as treble, mid, and bass that should give everyone a good base line of what to expect. I'm certain your knowledge in this area is above mine since I have no idea what "haircombing" is (outside of the obvious of course) :)

Thanks again and I look forward to the results!
 
Since you have many speakers playing the same frequencies from different distances to the listening position you tend to see a lot of frequency dependent cancellations and additions. These effect are also very location dependent and the resulting pattern looks a lot like a hair comb :)

Cheers

Thomas
 
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