Hyundai Equus "at your service" Services

[Mark_888]

In a luxury car, such as the Equus, the payment difference is going to be the major plus( lease vs retail purchase). That in itself if going to be thousands of dollars saving over 36 months
The downside is that you are never building any equity and its a never ending payment scenario...though you always have something fresh and current to drive, if that is your thing

The monthly cost of a lease is usually lower than a car loan, because on a loan you are paying off the entire value of the car, and on a lease you are only paying for the years that you use it.

However, this is extremely misleading, because if you continually lease, you have no equity at trade-in time. If you purchase, and trade-in our car, the cost of your next car will be less and the monthly payments will comparable to a lease (or lower than a lease).

To me, the big problem with leasing is that I don't know in advance how many miles I will drive it, due to job or life changes that may happen. So either I pay for unused miles, or pay a fortune if I go over the allotted number of miles.

Personally, I prefer paying cash, even for new cars, if one can afford it. The current market rate for car loans is about 4.25% and not tax deductible for individuals. Anything less is being subsidized by the dealer/manufacturer.

 

[turnne]

I am saying that it is not really a cash flow problem, because one can borrow money to purchase the cars. That is what leasing companies do.

The problem comes into play with regard to hiring people to figure out how to borrow the money, and all the other people required for managing a fleet. So by no means am I saying that it is a bad idea to hire an outside company to manage the fleet and to lease cars.

Look at it this way. For an individual, is leasing a preservation of cash? Not really, since one can get a car loan just about as easy, and then purchase instead of lease.

I am not sure how much clear I could state this

look at the current monthly payment of the lease deal on an Equus
I have seen deals of $669-699

the SAME car in a retail loan would be at least $250 more per month

36 months x $250 per month is $9000 savings

SO....if you need say 4-5 cars in your fleet
you could potentially save at least $32,000 in 36 months in CASH..ie..liquid assets

now..the downside is that you have no equity
But depending on what you are trying to accomplish and your situation..it may not matter to you

Warren

 

[turnne]

The monthly cost of a lease is usually lower than a car loan, because on a loan you are paying off the entire value of the car, and on a lease you are only paying for the years that you use it.

However, this is extremely misleading, because if you continually lease, you have no equity at trade-in time. If you purchase, and trade-in our car, the cost of your next car will be less and the monthly payments will comparable to a lease (or lower than a lease).

To me, the big problem with leasing is that I don't know in advance how many miles I will drive it, due to job or life changes that may happen. So either I pay for unused miles, or pay a fortune if I go over the allotted number of miles.

Personally, I prefer paying cash, even for new cars, if one can afford it. The current market rate for car loans is about 4.25% and not tax deductible for individuals. Anything less is being subsidized by the dealer/manufacturer.

ok....you do understand leasing right?
I have no idea why you say it is extremely misleading
1.if you are leasing all you really care about is the monthly payment and having a new car consistently with little maintenance and no repairs

2.There is no trade in....you turn it in at the end of the lease and move on to the next deal

3. I have no idea where you are coming up with this

If you purchase, and trade-in our car, the cost of your next car will be less and the monthly payments will comparable to a lease (or lower than a lease).
this means you have put more capital in the car

You do realize that you can trade in a car in a lease deal as well..right?
You would be crazy to do that...but your payments would be even lower

I got a loan rate for about half of that 4.25% rate through the bank that I do most of business with ..Chase
No manufacturer or dealer subsidy

If one has good credit you can do much better than 4.25% on a car loan

if you choose to pay cash over a 2.5% interest rate that is your choice..I guess
I just think at that rate I could invest my cash in other areas for a better return

I think one should think twice about investing a lot of cash in a car...since it does depreciate each and every day

I would rather use cash for something that actually appreciates in value...especially at the current interest rates

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

I have no idea why you say it is extremely misleading

I don't want to get into a discussion of leasing vs buying (and getting a loan). There are many other threads and other websites that discuss that.

My original comment was that leasing has no tax advantages over purchasing. I will stand by that, and I don't care if you believe it or not.

 

[turnne]

I don't want to get into a discussion of leasing vs buying (and getting a loan). There are many other threads and other websites that discuss that.

My original comment was that leasing has no tax advantages over purchasing. I will stand by that, and I don't care if you believe it or not.

The tax advantages vary and there is a lot more detailed than what you describe...something that could fill pages and also varies by state and business purpose

My points were that so much of the other statements that you were posting were juts plain false
1. The warranty on the Equus radio
2. current retail purchase interest rates
3. "mis leading" nature of leasing
4. Data points on what payment terms of a lease actually mean
5. Data points( or lack of) on company cars vs car allowances
6. Whether GE( Now called Element Fleet services) was leasing cars

I could go on and on and on

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

The tax advantages vary and there is a lot more detailed than what you describe...something that could fill pages and also varies by state and business purpose

My points were that so much of the other statements that you were posting were juts plain false
1. The warranty on the Equus radio
2. current retail purchase interest rates
3. "mis leading" nature of leasing
4. Data points on what payment terms of a lease actually mean
5. Data points( or lack of) on company cars vs car allowances
6. Whether GE( Now called Element Fleet services) was leasing cars

I could go on and on and on

Warren

1. I forgot that this was an Equus forum (I don't own an Equus), but I was quite aware of the difference in warranty between the Equus and all other Hyundai's. Starting in 2016 they will all be the same.

2. I checked interest rates at several big banks, I will stand by my statement. You must be getting some kind of real sweetheart deal based on your other bank business.

3. I stand by my claim that your statement was misleading (saying that lease payments are cheaper than loan payments over the long term when trade-in considered). As a licensed CPA for over 20 years, I refuse to be bamboozled by such logic. Go talk to Suze Orman about this.

4. Don't know what that means (and don't care).

5. You appear to have a lot of knowledge about pharmaceutical sales, where salespersons are on the road almost 100% of the time visiting doctor offices, and I agree that in those situations, leasing is prevalent. But in many other situations a car allowance is used, based on my experience with many large companies. Someone else in this thread mentioned the same.

6. You claim that GE was leasing the cars from someone else. Fine, there is a someone who is leasing and making money leasing, because there are tax advantages to leasing. GE used to be in the leasing business, but is getting out, or has already left, so it is not unreasonable to assume that they may be the original purchaser and entity that is doing the leasing. It may not have been the part of GE that does fleet management, but another part of GE (or the part of GE that has been sold/spun-off).

None of these things refutes my claim that there is no tax advantage to leasing (assuming one is not cheating on their taxes). Even if one is going to cheat, it is just as easy to cheat on depreciation expense (which happens when you purchase) versus cheat on lease expense.

 

[turnne]

1. I forgot that this was an Equus forum (I don't own an Equus), but I was quite aware of the difference in warranty between the Equus and all other Hyundai's. Starting in 2016 they will all be the same.

2. I checked interest rates at several big banks, I will stand by my statement. You must be getting some kind of real sweetheart deal based on your other bank business.

3. I stand by my claim that your statement was misleading (saying that lease payments are cheaper than loan payments over the long term when trade-in considered). As a licensed CPA for over 20 years, I refuse to be bamboozled by such logic. Go talk to Suze Orman about this.

4. Don't know what that means (and don't care).

5. You appear to have a lot of knowledge about pharmaceutical sales, where salespersons are on the road almost 100% of the time visiting doctor offices, and I agree that in those situations, leasing is prevalent. But in many other situations a car allowance is used, based on my experience with many large companies. Someone else in this thread mentioned the same.

6. You claim that GE was leasing the cars from someone else. Fine, there is a someone who is leasing and making money leasing, because there are tax advantages to leasing. GE used to be in the leasing business, but is getting out, or has already left, so it is not unreasonable to assume that they may be the original purchaser and entity that is doing the leasing. It may not have been the part of GE that does fleet management, but another part of GE (or the part of GE that has been sold/spun-off).

None of these things refutes my claim that there is no tax advantage to leasing (assuming one is not cheating on their taxes). Even if one is going to cheat, it is just as easy to cheat on depreciation expense (which happens when you purchase) versus cheat on lease expense.

1. Then I would guess I would have to ask the question why you stated it then...without knowing?

2. Clearly you didnt check the largest banking institution in the United States
https://www.chase.com/
rates did just rise a bit last week...but far below the 4.25% you quoted

3.I stand by the fact that lease payments are cheaper than a retail loan for the same car
You can trade in or pay a lump sum cash into a lease as well
You build no equity..however if you dont ever care to in a car for your individual purposes ..then the point is moot anyway
Talk to ANY financial adviser

4.Interesting...since you made the statement in the first place
I guess you dont comprehend what you stated...

5. Actually...there is a whole lot more that still have company car fleets outside of pharmaceutical sales in the Fortune 500
What is rare that companies manage their own fleets anymore
You should do more research before making blanket statements

6. Did you proof that statement after you wrote it?
It makes no sense
Yes..GE( now named Element) is leasing our corporate fleet

and for tax advantages
you cant make a blanket statement that leasing offers NO ONE tax advantages in ANY scenario

that statement is ridiculous...such as the one I saw you post recently that verbal contracts were not biding in transactions over $500
That is completely false...and 5 minutes looking up actual case law would have convinced you not to post that

Warren

 

[RN2X]

Can we possibly take this to another thread. It no longer relates to "at your service"

 

[Mark_888]

Can we possibly take this to another thread. It no longer relates to "at your service"

Good idea. turnne and I will meet this evening in the alley out back and settle this between ourselves.

 

[turnne]

Can we possibly take this to another thread. It no longer relates to "at your service"

good idea lol

I will say the dealer I purchased my Equus from was probably the worst car buying experience I have ever had
I bought the car out of state and it will be serviced by another dealer...who hopefully will do a better job than the dealer I bought it from
To be fair though...this is the first car I have bought in years that was not from a "luxury " car dealer..in the past I have driven BMW, MB and Cadillac

My first reaction was that dealers dont seem to know a lot about the Equus

Good idea. turnne and I will meet this evening in the alley out back and settle this between ourselves.

carry on guy
the "integrity" of your statements provide me some cheap entertainment

Warren

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[amartz]

I got $5 on the CPA!

 

[turnne]

I got $5 on the CPA!

dont spend your "winnings" all in one place!!

Warren

 

[edward301]

Don't forget if you own the car, you get sales tax credit on the trade in
value, on a lease vehicle nothing.

 

[turnne]

Don't forget if you own the car, you get sales tax credit on the trade in
value, on a lease vehicle nothing.

not in every state...Ohio being one that does not

Also..you pay tax on a lease as you make the payments...on a retail purchase you pay 100% of the sales tax at the time of the sale
Also of note here is that some states add more "fees" into leases( vs a retail purchase) than others. This makes it more advantageous, financially, to do a balloon note in some states, like Texas, where a transaction with a balloon in it pays fees of a retail sale vs a lease
In a balloon you make payments on a portion of the principal but pay interest on the whole amount of the transaction
I would say that when I lived in Texas the balloon was preferred by many that were buying Mercedes Benz vehicles at the time vs a lease

Warren

 

[edward301]

I leased a vehicle one time, and never will again.

The one time I leased a vehicle was for the first Chevy we ever owned,
we were not sure how good they were, and with a lease if car was no
good, we would not be stuck with it.

Turned out the Suburban was a good vehicle, and have bought 5 more
since then.

When the lease was over, it was better for me to purchase the leased
Suburban from the lessor, and trade it in ( got sales tax credit ), and
got more for trade in value that I paid on residual value.

When we leased the Suburban we had to pay the sales tax on the
vehicle up front, if I had not purchased the leased vehicle in the end
all that sales tax would have been lost.

 

[turnne]

I leased a vehicle one time, and never will again.

The one time I leased a vehicle was for the first Chevy we ever owned,
we were not sure how good they were, and with a lease if car was no
good, we would not be stuck with it.

Turned out the Suburban was a good vehicle, and have bought 5 more
since then.

When the lease was over, it was better for me to purchase the leased
Suburban from the lessor, and trade it in ( got sales tax credit ), and
got more for trade in value that I paid on residual value.

When we leased the Suburban we had to pay the sales tax on the
vehicle up front, if I had not purchased the leased vehicle in the end
all that sales tax would have been lost.

interesting

I have never seen a contract lease end residual that was lower than what the car would bring in a trade in
Most luxury cars..in fact..have quite the opposite scenario
I think the advertised deal on the Equus ( for $599 for 36 months) has a contract lease end residual of about $32K( based on 30K miles or less)
And we know there is no way a 3 year old Equus is bring $32K even on a retail sale..much less a trade in
This about a 2012 with 30K miles...its not worth $32K at even a retail sale
Hence the reason most people turn them in after the lease is up

I also never heard if tax being paid in full at lease inception?
I have always seen it be a part of every payment
That is typically one of the advantages of a lease a lease...in theory you are paying for the part of the car that you use and paying the taxes as you use it

Warren