Hyundai Genesis vs Toyota Avalon

[nazadian]

Hello,

I've been looking into purchasing a used CPO vehicle, and was initially leaning towards a 2012 - 2013 Toyota Avalon Limited. However after a bit of research into the complaints associated with the Avalon (ex. mold-like smell from the AC due to water collecting in the evaporator (which Toyota has refused to address / recall), harsher / sportier suspension with the 2013+ models, interior pieces breaking / falling off, etc) I began looking into alternatives.

One alternative that caught my eye was the Hyundai Genesis.

The Genesis seems quite a bit more luxurious (both externally and internally), more feature-rich (especially tech-wise) and a slightly better deal (due to the horrid Genesis resale value - which works in my favor). Furthermore, Hyundai seems to have a far better CPO warranty (10 year - 100,000 power train vs Toyota's 7 year - 100,000 power train).

Reviews have also seemed consistently high for the Genesis across the board (with a few complaints here and there - the worst being related to engine stalling / seizing).

Lastly, due to the higher resale value of a Toyota, rather than purchase a 2012 - 2013 Toyota Avalon Limited, for nearly the same value (if not less), I could purchase a 2013 - 2014 Hyundai Genesis.

Just before I was about to contact a Hyundai dealer, I began reading about the maintenance costs associated with the Genesis.

I understand that Hyundai has positioned the Genesis as a luxury vehicle, but at least in the states, the $42,000.00 - $46,000.00 asking price for a fully loaded Genesis is far less than any other luxury brand. Because of that, I concluded that maintenance costs must also be far less than any other luxury brand (ex. more in the ballpark with Toyota rather than Lexus).

That's when I started reading about $8,000.00 - $9,000.00 transmission replacement costs, $500.00 - $600.00 transmission maintenance / service costs, high costs related to tech-related failures (which the Hyundai CPO warranty does not cover), etc.

I've heard that Hyundai's are well built (from a mechanic buddy of mine), but for the maintenance / repair costs listed above, I might as well buy a Lexus (which not only has a much better resale value but also a far better reliability rating). That being said, I've avoid Lexus from my car search specifically because of their notoriously high service and repair costs.

Note: Though JD Power lists Lexus as one of the top brands as far as reliability and quality for 2015 (Hyundai seems either average or slightly below average), CarMD lists Hyundai as their most reliable / lowest maintenance brand (besting Toyota which sits at 2nd place).

Question 1: Are the 2013 - 2014 Hyundai Genesis repair and maintenance fees much higher (on average) than something like a Toyota Avalon?

Question 2: Are the 2013 - 2014 Hyundai Genesis (specifically the 2014) more prone to issues (ex. due to electronic failures) than something like a Toyota Avalon?

Question 3: Are the Hyundai Genesis' harder to repair at Hyundai dealerships than Hyundai's non-luxury vehicles? I only ask as I've heard some complaints of Hyundai dealerships not being able to properly diagnose / repair a Genesis compared to something like a Sonata (similar to how a Toyota dealership may not be the best place to repair a Lexus).

Question 4: For the cost-conscience shopper looking for a comfortable, reliable, long lasting (ex. 10 - 15 years), low-maintenance and feature-rich mid-size sedan, would you recommend that I look for something else (ex. Toyota Avalon, Honda Accord, Subaru Legacy or Nissan Maxima)?

I'm not trying to start a flame war or cause any controversy. I'm only looking at making an informed decision when I walk into a dealership in the coming weeks.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Nelson

 

[Mark_888]

If you want a car to last 10-15 years, I would only consider the Base Trim Genesis. The other packages have too many electronic options that are prone to failure and very expensive to fix.

But a lot of Base Trim Genesis models sold as used may have been rental cars, so take that into consideration (you should be able to find out which ones).

 

[OneFunGenesis]

^ This. I wanted to keep my genesis for 10 years too. 3 years into ownership it got an electrical short that the Hyundai dealers could not fix so I got rid of the car.

As to the dealerships' they are hit and miss. But most report that they do not know how to cater to higher end clientele like genesis owners. They treat us like accent owners. Do shoddy repairs, or refuse to fix the problem at all. I would be under the impression that Toyota would be a little more "stand up" of a company than Hyundai given its age.

I was looking at an Avalon to replace the genesis, but it is so dang boring and behind the times. I feel like Toyota hasn't updated that car since the 90's and I didn't like that.

The Maxima...which year are you speaking of? The brand new maxima? Absolute garbage. Tiny car with a huge price tag. No heated or cooled rear seats...get an Optima first...it has more features and is bigger.

As to repair costs (I realize I am going out of order here): because this car is "rare" most parts are not stocked by dealers and have to be flown in from Korea. This, of course, shoots the price of repairs through the roof. Case in point, to re-program my radio cost my warranty company $800. That is just to reprogram. A replacement of the head unit for my Tech package was around $10k. That is just a small example and, of course, there are lesser examples but expect to pay more because of the scarcity of the cars and parts.

I hope this helped even a little bit.

 

[dmitriylm]

I would choose the Genesis over the Avalon (and many other competitors) without question. You will run across some people who have had some issues (particularly on forums where people tend to visit when they are having problems) but its been infinitely more reliable than my 2007 BMW 530i was while being more powerful, roomier, more comfortable and having more technology.

 

[Fight4Hemp]

^


The Maxima...which year are you speaking of? The brand new maxima? Absolute garbage. Tiny car with a huge price tag. No heated or cooled rear seats...get an Optima first...it has more features and is bigger.
.

+1 totally true the maxima is complete crap compared to the 2015 g2. I test drove the 43k dollar loaded maxima and I was suprised how small and uncomfortable it was sitting in the drivers seat. I had better experience test driving the bmw 3 series(lowest trim) then Nissan's front wheel drive garbage.

 

[sdrone]

A few notes here for you if you're considering buying a used Genesis. I traded in my 2007 Camry this year on a 2013 Genesis.

I find it interesting that you're comparing the 2 cars via their list of features. To me, it's about driving. The Avalon drives like a Camry. The Genesis, IMO drives a LOT better. Firmer, better feel, etc. Rear wheel drive. Etc .

If you don't know this already: HYUNDAI DOES NOT TRANSFER WARRANTIES the way every other brand does. I had never heard of this until I made an offhand comment to a dealer after a test drive. If you want the Hyundai warranty (and at this point, I'd recommend it) you have to buy a Hyundai certified used car.

Hyundai dealer service is not like Toyota or Honda. I may have been spoiled by living near very large Honda and Toyota dealers. Their service arms are open from 6am to midnight, and if you don't want to make an appointment, you don't have to. You just drive in; they've got 20 bays or more. Hyundai dealer service centers are not open those types of hours, and you'll need an appointment.

You may be used to - how do I put this - initial quality being perfect. No flaws. My 2013 Genesis has flaws. And several of them are not easy to reproduce (interior lights occasionally flicker, sometimes when you hit a seat position button, the seat just moved back 6 inches and does nothing else). It's something to think about. I posted about my transmission problem in another thread; I've gotten lucky in that the dealer was able to reproduce it on a test drive.

 

[landtuna]

My 2000 Avalon cost me about $300 in repairs for the 95,000 miles and 11 years that I owned it (clean the MAF sensor).

My 2012 Genesis R-spec hasn't cost me anything out of pocket for repairs yet.

Maintenance costs for both are about equal. The Genny obviously has significantly more gadgets and gizmos than the Avalon did. The Genny cost was almost double what the Avalon was.

Very difficult to compare the two as they were a decade apart and also very different vehicles but, depending upon what you want in a car, I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

 

[AgentSmith007]

If you don't know this already: HYUNDAI DOES NOT TRANSFER WARRANTIES the way every other brand does.

It DOES.

 

[PMCErnie]

It DOES.

Yes, of course Hyundai transfers the remainder of the 5/60,000 limited warranty to subsequent owners. Exceptions are audio & Nav systems that are covered for 3/36,000 for pre-'16 Hyundais. Sdrone misunderstood somebody, or was lied to. It's the 10/100,000 powertrain warranty that does not transfer from the first owner unless the car is a CPO.

Now, if you expect to keep any modern electronics-laden vehicle for 10 years, it would be foolish not to purchase an extended warranty.

 

[geops]

The genesis is a way better vehicle than the avalon. If you plan to keep the car for many years, the solution is very simple. Get a 2-year old vehicle with ~25K miles from a dealer as a CPO and pay another $2K for the extended warranty and you'll have everything completely covered with no out-of-pocket expenses for the next 8 years. Considering the total price of all this, it will be about half of a comparable luxury vehicle from bmw/merc/lexus/etc. You won't find a better bargain.

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[Mark_888]

There has been a lot of discussion here about the Avalon and the Camry. Both of these cars have undergone substantial changes recently, and have much tighter suspensions than in past years (depending on the model year chosen). Obviously, if looking for a used car, one would have to determine when the improvements were made.

For best reliability, it is always a good idea to get a car toward the end of the cycle of a particular design, rather than the first or second year of a new design.
In 2012, the Genesis introduced new (or highly modified) engines (3.8 V6 GDI, and 5.0 V6 GDI) and a brand new Hyundai 8 speed transmission. 2012 is not the best year for a used Genesis. 2011 and 2014 are probably going to be the most reliable.

 

[nazadian]

@everyone: I wanted to thank everyone for their input, as you've all been quite helpful.

Given the latest replies, I had a few more questions I was hoping someone could answer.

@Mark_888 and @OneFunGenesis: Your replies regarding the expensive Genesis repair costs have pushed me into looking for another vehicle for the time being (though the Genesis is still a serious consideration as I've fallen in love with the looks, comfort and tech of the vehicle). That being said, given that I was looking into purchasing a 2014 CPO (certified pre-owned) Genesis, I was wondering if you agreed with Geops's comment?

" If you plan to keep the car for many years, the solution is very simple. Get a 2-year old vehicle with ~25K miles from a dealer as a CPO and pay another $2K for the extended warranty and you'll have everything completely covered with no out-of-pocket expenses for the next 8 years. Considering the total price of all this, it will be about half of a comparable luxury vehicle from bmw/merc/lexus/etc. You won't find a better bargain."​

@Geop: Is the extended warranty a bumper to bumper warranty? In other words does it cover all non-wear and tear parts (ex. navigation / infotainment, tech / sensors, etc).

Furthermore, have you had any issues with dealers not honoring any parts of the warranty?

Lastly, if a dealer does agree to repair something within warranty, have you noticed it taking longer to repair a Genesis compared to a non-luxury Hyundai make (in other words, 2 - 3 days to repair a Sonata compared to 2 - 3 weeks for a Genesis)?

Note: Though my questions were directed to specific forum members, I welcome responses from any member.

Thank you for all your help,
Nelson

 

[Mark_888]

@everyone: I wanted to thank everyone for their input, as you've all been quite helpful.

Given the latest replies, I had a few more questions I was hoping someone could answer.

If you get the HPP extended warranty offered by Hyundai Motor America, it is honored by any Hyundai dealer, since they get reimbursed by Hyundai just like the original new car warranty.

If you get the extended warranty, you may not need the CPO warranty, but there is a special extended warranty for cars that are already CPO.

The Platinum HPP warranty will give you bumper to bumper coverage (except for batteries, paint chips, brake pad wear, etc), so it does cover all electronic items. Usually the term is 10 year or 100K miles, which ever comes first, but other plans may be available. Some plans have a small deductible. You can purchase these at any Hyundai dealer (on the phone or in person), but make sure it is the HPP Platinum warranty, as dealers like to sell third party warranties.

It is hard to say how long it takes to make repairs. In some cases, parts may need to be ordered from Korea, since that is where the Genesis is assembled. But personally, I would not worry about that. They might give you a loaner if it is a warranty repair, especially if you are willing to drive a smaller used car.

 

[Mark_888]

If you don't know this already: HYUNDAI DOES NOT TRANSFER WARRANTIES the way every other brand does. I had never heard of this until I made an offhand comment to a dealer after a test drive. If you want the Hyundai warranty (and at this point, I'd recommend it) you have to buy a Hyundai certified used car.

As others have mentioned, dealer was talking about transfer of the 10 year - 100K mile drivetrain warranty. That warranty is not transferable to used car buyers, unless it is a CPO (dealer has to pay Hyundai about $1000 to make a car CPO to cover the cost of restoring the extended drivetrain warranty).

It is true, that some other auto companies that have an extended drivetrain warranty will transfer it without charge to all used car buyers, but very few of them have a 10 year - 100K mile drivetrain warranty.

Also, at one time the Hyundai drivetrain warranty could be transferred to any relative who purchased the car, but now it has to be a member of the immediate family (i.e., wife, husband, daughter, son, stepdaughter, stepson).
.

 

[daviderle]

i currently own 2 Genesis vehicles, a 2009 4.6 Tech (more than seven years) and a 2013 R-Spec (2 years), both of which have been a model of reliability.

As others have stated, getting HMA HPP is the way to go, as it has saved me a big bill on at least one occasion.

However, please be aware that there are few items that are not covered, example parking sensors, some adaptive cruise control components, among other items. A full list can be found here:

http://www.hyundaiextendedwarranty-hpp.com/Platcov.asp?state=#not

As far as service costs, if you are willing to do few simple items yourself, they are very reasonable. For example, for the 60k service I just did for 2009 4.6 V8, I replaced the air filter, the cabin filter, wiper blades, fuel system additive/treatment myself, the total cost was $375 (including synthetic oil change and taxes), instead of the original quoted $650+ tax! But I am spoiled for choice as there 4 Hyundai dealers around me (Jim Ellis being one, which where I purchased my HPP 10/100k warranty from, for both cars)

Personally I prefer rear wheel drive, and although the Avalon is a fine vehicle, it is really more in line with the Azera, which is another nice automobile that might be worth considering. While Accord, Legacy, Maxima are a bit smaller and really not in the same class as the Genesis!

Good luck with your purchase...

 

[Mark_888]

As others have stated, getting HMA HPP is the way to go, as it has saved me a big bill on at least one occasion.

However, please be aware that there are few items that are not covered, example parking sensors, some adaptive cruise control components, among other items. A full list can be found here:

http://www.hyundaiextendedwarranty-hpp.com/Platcov.asp?state=#not

The wording is confusing, however, it has been demonstrated by some owners (by contacting Hyundai Motor America) that the above interpretation is not correct, and that those things are in fact covered. What is not covered are after-market items.

I don't blame anyone for mis-interpretation, because it is very poorly worded, and no one knew for sure until they contacted Hyundai corporate. There are several threads in this forum regarding this subject.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

I didn't read most posts here as I am tight on time today.

There were 2 repairs that the warranty did not cover and therefore I did not get them done. 1 was that my drivers physical door lock stopped working with the physical key. I was told that the cylinder had corroded and would be $300 for the part plus labor. The second is that my drivers side sun visor broke and had trouble staying up against the headliner. That was also not covered and was going to be a few hundred. I also did not do that repair.

Ultimately I liked the car for the time it was flawless but the dealership experience was horrendous for me.

 

[sdrone]

The Platinum HPP warranty will give you bumper to bumper coverage (except for batteries, paint chips, brake pad wear, etc), so it does cover all electronic items.

Out of paranoia - if you get that warranty, it's worth asking about the touch screen. I was asking questions about one of the extended warranties you could get that covered electronics and it did not cover the screen.

 

[Mark_888]

Out of paranoia - if you get that warranty, it's worth asking about the touch screen. I was asking questions about one of the extended warranties you could get that covered electronics and it did not cover the screen.

I don't know who you are getting your information from. I hope you are not listening to a car salesman.

The Hyundai HPP Platinum extended warranty is offered by Hyundai Motor America (HMA), not your dealer (although the dealer sells it). If you contact HMA, they will tell you that everything is covered with the 5 year - 60K mile bumper to bumper warranty, is covered by the HPP Platinum extended warranty, including the touch screen. However, if there is some kind of abuse of the screen (scratching, etc) then that may not be covered because that is not a manufacturing defect.

Note that prior to 2016, the audio and GPS touch screen warranty was only 3 years - 36K miles, but the warranty on that would be covered in full with the HPP Platinum extended warranty.

 

[nazadian]

The genesis is a way better vehicle than the avalon. If you plan to keep the car for many years, the solution is very simple. Get a 2-year old vehicle with ~25K miles from a dealer as a CPO and pay another $2K for the extended warranty and you'll have everything completely covered with no out-of-pocket expenses for the next 8 years. Considering the total price of all this, it will be about half of a comparable luxury vehicle from bmw/merc/lexus/etc. You won't find a better bargain.

@Everyone: Thank you once again for all the help and information.

@Geops and / or Everyone: I had a few questions regarding the $2,000.00 warranty.

Question 1: Is the $2,000.00 extended warranty you're referring to the Hyundai Platinum Plan extended warranty, or is the Platinum Plan warranty more expensive?

Question 2: If more expensive, by how much?

Question 3: I already think I know the answer to this question - which is "no", but out of curiosity, does the extended warranty only apply to certified pre-owned vehicles?

I only ask as I've heard that factory warranties (for some makes) can be transferred from one private party to another.

So, let's say I purchased a Genesis from a private party on Craigslist and had that person's factory warranty transferred over to my name. Could I then apply for a HPP extended warranty?

Question 4: If you answered yes to question 3, would you personally ever buy a used Genesis from a private party rather than a dealer? Almost every person I've ever asked about this has said no, but one person at work mentioned that if I have all the cash up front, I could save an extra $5,000.00 - $7,500.00.

Note: If buying from a private party, I'd make sure to look up the VIN on CarFax (to make sure there were no accidents, that it was owned by one person, that the car was properly maintained, that the car wasn't purchased out of state and that it wasn't a rental or corporate vehicle) and then have the car checked by both a Hyundai dealer mechanic as well as a 3rd party mechanic before exchanging any money.

Thank you,
Nelson