Hyundai Telling Dealers They Cannot Swap Genesis Emblems

[Preem2011]

I call BS too. It CLEARLY says GENESIS.

You just found a salesman who is too lazy to take a leak...If you asked, I bet he would tell you he wears a diaper.

Gotta love those type.

Anywho, you can do it yourself in less than 5 min. Park your car outside in the sun...get you some dental floss, slide it between the metal and the plastic. Clean off any goo left behind and then put your new emblems on and forget the headache of a lazy man.

hahahahahahahhahahahahah. I laughed pretty hard on this one.!!

 

[milstartwo]

WOW, this post has gotten interesting!

Trotti, a few questions for you:
Is your R-Spec rebadged? And what are we all to do if BMW sues Hyundai and wins? Will we all be looking for good deals on lazy H's on ebay?

Having just bought a rebadged 2011, I am very curious to see where this all leads.

 

[scottdk]

WOW, this post has gotten interesting!

Trotti, a few questions for you:
Is your R-Spec rebadged? And what are we all to do if BMW sues Hyundai and wins? Will we all be looking for good deals on lazy H's on ebay?

Having just bought a rebadged 2011, I am very curious to see where this all leads.

Is it illegal or against trademark if you put a BMW logo on your Genesis??

 

[Mark_888]

I would disagree here - just because others do it doesn't mean that it doesn't cause confusion and just because it says Genesis on the emblem also doesn't prevent confusion. The test generally is, could the use of the mark confuse the average consumer. I think it's a resounding yes as many on this forum have mentioned the resemblance and the fact that it "calls to mind" the Mini and other emblems.

Mini probably wouldn't care about calling to mind the Aston Martin logo (which few but enthusiasts can even identify) but they likely would take issue with confusion with Hyundai.

And - just because Hyundai states a reason for why they chose to use the lazy H doesn't mean that was the actual reason.

I don't think anyone has ever confused the Genesis with a Mini, although some thought it was a Bentley (also owned by BMW). However, since the emblem is used in Korea, I think if anyone sued HMA over the emblem, they would be laughed out of the courtroom, and just give incredible publicity to Hyundai that money could not even buy (which Bentley/BMW would not want to do).

The most likely explanation is that HMA deliberately imported the Genesis under the Hyundai brand to the USA to build Hyundai brand recognition (even though it is sold under Genesis brand in Korea), and HMA wants people to know it is a Hyundai, and there is no chance of a lawsuit from other automakers. If you want me to say that the dealers or HMA that claim there is a trademark infringement are not being truthful, then OK, I will call them liars. How can anyone be so gullible as to believe car salesman?

 

[PMCErnie]

VW is the Bentley daddy, Mark. Bugatti too. BMW owns Rolls Royce.

 

[markn455]

Add me to the BS list. My dealer just changed mine out today no question.

Mark

 

[trotti]

WOW, this post has gotten interesting!

Trotti, a few questions for you:
Is your R-Spec rebadged? And what are we all to do if BMW sues Hyundai and wins? Will we all be looking for good deals on lazy H's on ebay?

Having just bought a rebadged 2011, I am very curious to see where this all leads.

I'm halfway rebadged - I switched out the trunk emblem myself via an ebay purchase . . . that and the little wheelcaps.

I don't think that you, individually, have anything to worry about. If they chase you down in your Genesis they've stopped one instance of the rebranding (if they can catch you). If they did try to enforce, my money is on them going after HMA directly. That way, they prevent all future sales of the car from leaving the dealer with the possibly infringing badge that wasn't authorized by HMA.

Keep in mind - this is all speculation as I haven't seen any word regarding enforcement by BMW of its mark (I only did a brief look, however). That said, if I was the trademark attorney advising HMA, I'd tell them to take all steps necessary to prevent dealers from installing the badges.

 

[trotti]

Is it illegal or against trademark if you put a BMW logo on your Genesis??

Neither! You only incur liability for violation of trademark when you use a mark "in commerce." So - the dealer or HMA that knowingly allows another's mark to be used on it's products could be liable, but not someone not using the mark "in commerce." After reading all these posts - you guys will be ready to start practicing trademark law on the side.

 

[scottdk]

Neither! You only incur liability for violation of trademark when you use a mark "in commerce." So - the dealer or HMA that knowingly allows another's mark to be used on it's products could be liable, but not someone not using the mark "in commerce." After reading all these posts - you guys will be ready to start practicing trademark law on the side.

The "rolling eyes smiley" assists the sarcastic tone of my question.

 

[dg_moore]

Is it illegal or against trademark if you put a BMW logo on your Genesis??

And what about the guy who put a Hyundai lazy H on his Bentley?
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/05/cruel-sick-joke-bentley-continental-badged-as-a-hyundai/

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[TOMMYJR9]

Some of you have no clue .

 

[warreneaux4]

How much control a mfg has over a franchised dealer is a complex legal issue and the courts are filled with cases on the subject. And they cut both ways, franchisee vs mfg and mfg vs franchisee.

In this case we are really talking more about a mfg's control over his product and, more importantly, its branding. Often, a brand is a company's most important asset, built over years with many millions of promotional dollars.

Once the sale is made to the end-user, the customer is free to have the dealer make any changes he chooses, so long as they don't violate safety/DMV requirements.

Prior to the customers ownership, I believe Hyundai would have a strong case in protecting its branding investment. Also, particularly in the case of the Genesis, Hyundai branding is part of the overall "halo" marketing strategy.

So, I wouldn't be surprised if Hyundai has asked their dealers not to re-brand the Genesis. How far they would push it would depend on many factors including their relationship with a particular dealer.

So, back in the day when I had a Pontiac and I put Lincoln Wire Hub Caps on it, was I breaking the law?
I think we can do what we want to with our vehicles.
Earl

 

[r-spec5.0]

It is not true..or at least I have not heard anything about it. and I work for Hyundai

I know this is an old thread, but the new 2015 Genesis has a giant wing emblem up front so this makes no sense at all.

 

[Mark_888]

So, back in the day when I had a Pontiac and I put Lincoln Wire Hub Caps on it, was I breaking the law?
I think we can do what we want to with our vehicles.
Earl

Even though I completely disagree with TommyJr9, there is a difference between what an owner can do to their car, and what a manufacturer/dealer can do to a car offered for sale. A manufacturer/dealer (other than Ford) could not put an exact Lincoln emblem on one of their cars, because of trademark infringement.

If a Hyundai dealer put an exact Bentley emblem on the Genesis, or something that said the words Bentley, that would be a problem. But just "wings" are not specific enough to cause a problem since wings have been around on many different cars over the years. Also, in the case of the Genesis wings, the word "Genesis" is clearly imprinted on the wings.

Trademark laws are international (unless you are talking about North Korea or something) and since Hyundai has been putting the wings on the Genesis sold in South Korea, Middle East, and Russia for more than 5 years, there clearly is no problem with doing that in the USA (as evidenced by the 2015 Genesis).

 

[TOMMYJR9]

If that's the case why haven't been putting the wing package on the Genesis since day one? Why is it not available option? Why does the dealers have to buy it from overseas? Etc etc

 

[Mark_888]

If that's the case why haven't been putting the wing package on the Genesis since day one? Why is it not available option? Why does the dealers have to buy it from overseas? Etc etc

Wholly Jesus!! I explained that in detail in the other current thread (and many other threads).

The Genesis is/was not sold with Hyundai label on it in Korea (or any other market outside of North America) when it was introduced in 2008. It was sold as a Genesis BH380, Genesis BH460, etc (just as a Lincoln made by Ford, but does not use the Ford brand name). That's why the Korean version has the wings instead the flying H that we can import and put on our cars.

When they decided to import the Genesis to North America in MY 2009, they decided to not set up a separate dealer network and to use the Hyundai brand name, so they swapped out the wings with the Hyundai logo. The reason for this (which has been stated by HMA management many times) is to improve the perception of the Hyundai brand name in North America, which took a severe beating in the late 1980's and 1990's with cheap and poor quality cars.

The mantra of Hyundai Motor America has been to "build the brand." HMA discovered that a large percentage of Accord and Camry buyers were not even looking at a Sonata, due to poor brand perception of Hyundai in North America. The introduction and sale of Genesis/Equus as a Hyundai product in North America was designed to improve that image, and not "primarily" to make a lot of money on Genesis and Equus vehicles. In the first five years, Hyundai has been selling the Genesis at a loss in the US, which can easily be determined by looking at Genesis prices in Korea. With the 2015 price increases, they are moving closer to profitability on Genesis/Equus, but they take a long term approach on those matters.

 

[TOMMYJR9]

So I guess with all your knowledge you're the vice president of Hyundai ? It will be my pleasure to prove you wrong about the wing package just give me some time

 

[Mark_888]

So I guess with all your knowledge you're the vice president of Hyundai ? It will be my pleasure to prove you wrong about the wing package just give me some time

No, I am not vice president of Hyundai, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Also, in 2009, I was one of 20 who participated in a 90 minute online chat session on Hyundai Think Tank with John Krafcik, HMA CEO, who told us all of the things I mentioned above about building the Hyundai brand and why the Genesis is sold as a Hyundai in North America, but not sold with Hyundai logo in other parts of the world.

There is no way you can prove I am wrong (even if I were) because HMA is not going to admit that they previously lied about the reason they told dealers not to swap out the flying H and put on wings. HMA has spent tens of millions in advertising proclaiming that the Genesis is a Hyundai and they wanted to reinforce that in the public's mind. They don't want people saying "that is a really nice car, I wonder what that is?", they want people saying "that is a really nice car, I guess Hyundai makes really high quality cars these days that can compete with anyone."

 

[TOMMYJR9]

We will see. BTW it's ok to be incorrect sometimes

 

[xiaphin]

All I am wondering is why would anybody pay to have this done when you can do it yourself???