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Hyundai Will Have to Rebrand Genesis or Fail

I don't think the Hyundai dealer experience is even as good as Toyota or Honda. Not so much in perks, but in the quality of the people you have deal with. Fortunately, I don't plan on spending a lot of time with my dealer, but every time I talk to an dealer employee I usually cringe.

I completely disagree with your/these comments.
I have owned 3 different Honda cars and 4 Different Toyota cars and find they are both the cockiest dealers to deal with.
They "know" they have good cars and they'll let you know when dealing with them.
Guess what...TODAY Hyundai makes great cars too!

I now own a 2nd Hyundai car and couldn't be happier. I am treated like a real customer at my Hyundai dealership.

Maybe you should change dealership. There are good and bad at all dealerships. You just need to find the right one.

I have.
 
I am not surprised that a large percentage of you are claiming the Hyundai dealership experience is as good as Lexus and any other luxury car maker.

However I would point out that you guys are also Genesis owners, so Hyundai doesn't need to do more to convince you. You guys are also value conscious customers and so you would probably trade-off immaterial things for more money in your pocket.

But the luxury market is about paying for things you don't need but which are nice. And to do that, your dealership must offer things which don't make sense economically but which create a premium experience which holistically people will pay more for.

For the guys who did didn't bite the marshmallow so quickly, they need to do more than just offer better value. And as one of these people, I am pointing out that the dealer experience is an area with a gap. Yes you may check the list and say you have those things.

Compare the websites.

This is our Hyundai dealer:
http://www.doralhyundai.com/

This is my Lexus dealer:
http://www.lexusofnorthmiami.com/AboutUs

Just surf around the websites. The Lexus one emphasize their people, their values, etc. The Hyundai one emphasizes coupons. This is not premium.

I am not trying to knock the Hyundai dealers here. I am just saying that luxury products are more than just a spec sheet - they are about an experience, and this is something Hyundai should take seriously because they have built a couple of awesome cars in the Genesis and Equus and it would be a shame if they ended up as low volume brand building exercises like the VW Phaeton. The Genesis should be viewed as this decades LS400 - but to do that the other pieces need work.




I understand what you are saying.......... I am well off enough to afford BMW's and Mercedes myself......... the point I am making is that Hyundai does not need to cater to those who would have the posh life at their dealer..... for those there is already Lexus and BMW and Mercedes......... I choose to live my posh life away from my car dealer.......Hyundai needs only to take care of their customers...... of which I choose to be one..... This is my first Hyundai ... I have no particular loyalty to Hyundai or any other car manufacturer for that matter which is evidenced in the fact I have owned Honda, Toyota, Chrysler, Pontiac, Chev, Ford and Inifiniti in my lifetime. And now Hyundai.


BTW I notice that the lexus website has an area for "specials"....... I didn't know that those looking for the finer things in life are into "specials"....... lol.......

For those of you wondering....... I live in a posh neighborhood, my house worth nearly 3 Million....... my neighbors house is worth nearly 5 Million..... He has 4 Mercedes in the driveway............. so I am not ignorant as to what it means to have the financial ability to pay for such things and certainly have nothing against people who work hard for their money and use it to buy the nice things in life.......
 
I completely disagree with your/these comments.
I have owned 3 different Honda cars and 4 Different Toyota cars and find they are both the cockiest dealers to deal with.
They "know" they have good cars and they'll let you know when dealing with them.
Guess what...TODAY Hyundai makes great cars too!

I now own a 2nd Hyundai car and couldn't be happier. I am treated like a real customer at my Hyundai dealership.

Maybe you should change dealership. There are good and bad at all dealerships. You just need to find the right one.

I have.


So have I ........
 
I completely disagree with your/these comments.
I have owned 3 different Honda cars and 4 Different Toyota cars and find they are both the cockiest dealers to deal with.
They "know" they have good cars and they'll let you know when dealing with them.
Guess what...TODAY Hyundai makes great cars too!

I now own a 2nd Hyundai car and couldn't be happier. I am treated like a real customer at my Hyundai dealership.

Maybe you should change dealership. There are good and bad at all dealerships. You just need to find the right one.

I have.
Certainly when you are dealing with car sales personnel, you will find sleazy tactics at any dealer. And I am not talking about how my dealer "treats" me. I am talking more about the level of sophistication and intelligence of the people who work in a dealership. Sometimes they can turn that sophistication and intelligence against a customer, but nevertheless the difference is generally evident when comparing Hyundai vs Toyota and Honda dealer employees.

BTW, I have been to many Hyundai dealerships, including several parts departments. Just not the same type of people as you would find at most Honda or Toyota dealers. I presume this is because working at a Hyundai dealership pays less that at most Honda and Toyota dealers.

I know this a sore subject, in part because there are many Hyundai dealer employees who post here (some who admit it and some in disguise as regular customers), but I believe my observations are generally accurate (but not necessarily accurate in every single instance).
 
Certainly when you are dealing with car sales personnel, you will find sleazy tactics at any dealer. And I am not talking about how my dealer "treats" me. I am talking more about the level of sophistication and intelligence of the people who work in a dealership. Sometimes they can turn that sophistication and intelligence against a customer, but nevertheless the difference is generally evident when comparing Hyundai vs Toyota and Honda dealer employees.

BTW, I have been to many Hyundai dealerships, including several parts departments. Just not the same type of people as you would find at most Honda or Toyota dealers. I presume this is because working at a Hyundai dealership pays less that at most Honda and Toyota dealers.

I know this a sore subject, in part because there are many Hyundai dealer employees who post here (some who admit it and some in disguise as regular customers), but I believe my observations are generally accurate (but not necessarily accurate in every single instance).

Shocker, but I absolutely agree with you on the quality of dealer employees and the reason. ;)

It's a catch-22. While the cars are solidly-built and a good value, Hyundai loses marks on the sales, service, and after-care experience--all of which cost money that will inevitably raise prices. But if prices are close to that of the established marquee brands, then people say "well, I'll just buy a ____ then."

Right now, Hyundai is a value brand. It's no longer a throwaway brand. But it's not a premium brand, certainly not in the minds of the folks who bring those premium expectations with them. And I think Hyundai knows it and will carefully enter those waters. Otherwise, "Think About It" wouldn't be the company's tagline, which is more directed at people who would buy another nameplate.

Put another way, would you pay German or Japanese prices TODAY for the Genesis if the service, sales, and after-care experience was similar? Or would you just buy a German or Japanese car?
 
Shocker, but I absolutely agree with you on the quality of dealer employees and the reason. ;)

It's a catch-22. While the cars are solidly-built and a good value, Hyundai loses marks on the sales, service, and after-care experience--all of which cost money that will inevitably raise prices. But if prices are close to that of the established marquee brands, then people say "well, I'll just buy a ____ then."

Right now, Hyundai is a value brand. It's no longer a throwaway brand. But it's not a premium brand, certainly not in the minds of the folks who bring those premium expectations with them. And I think Hyundai knows it and will carefully enter those waters. Otherwise, "Think About It" wouldn't be the company's tagline, which is more directed at people who would buy another nameplate.

Put another way, would you pay German or Japanese prices TODAY for the Genesis if the service, sales, and after-care experience was similar? Or would you just buy a German or Japanese car?

I mostly agree with you........... as I said before there is no need for Hyundai to create a premium brand since the premium brands already exist...... Having said that Hyundai will create a premium brand if they see a profit in it and if they feel they have automobiles that can compete with those of the premium brands........but when they do you will no longer be talking about what a great value the car is ....... it will be priced as all other premium brands...... the reality is there are those who bought BMW's and Audi's and Mercedes before there were Lexus on the road and they still can't bring themselves to buy a Lexus..... the same would be true for any premium brand Hyundai may create...... Since I don't value the dealer experience I probably would not pay Mercedes prices for a Genesis.......
 
Threads like this are pointless b/c Hyundai is very well aware that it will have to launch a premium brand/dealership in order to have become a major player in the luxury auto market in the US - which is why Hyundai is tentatively planning on launching its upscale marque in 5-6 years time - coinciding w/ the launch of the next gen Genesis sedan and coupe (which will go upscale) as well a new entry level C segment sedan (which will be the volume seller), followed shortly w/ the next-gen Equus and llikely a CUV as well.


But that's the next point. If you want to play with Lexus/BMW/Benz then you cannot insult your customer.

Not saying that Hyundai doesn't have to upgrade their dealer exp. (even if just for the mainstream market), but the German marques are hardly immune from insulting their customers.

Also, Toyota and Honda, at best, have gotten middling customer satisfaction scores w/ regard to dealer exp.

Toyota is now squeezing the gap between Toyota and Lexus. That means a Lexus killer like Genesis not only has to keep up with Lexus but also stay ahead of Toyota. When you can get 90% of a Genesis for 18K less than a Genesis but with 120% of the customer/dealer experience then the Genesis is in trouble.

How is Toyota squeezing the gap?

Toyota has nothing that compares to the Genesis sedan (the Avalon? please!) and if anything, Lexus is doing the squeezing by going even further downmarket.

Paying $5-10K+ more for a car for each and every owner likely has something to do with the "premium experience." Unless you're a volume dealer, you're not going to be able to afford that without some sort of subsidy. I wonder how many Genesis or Equus the #1 selling dealer would expect to sell in a year?

Exactly, as I stated in the other thread, there was no way a new dealer network could have survived on sales of the Genesis sedan alone in 2009 w/o major subsidies.

Heck, they would still need subsidies w/ the Gen coupe and Equus since neither will be or has shown to be a volume seller.

Switching from BMW to Lexus as I did last year, the one thing that really struck me is how good the experience is in the Lexus dealerships.
My local Lexus dealer in Florida for instance has the following nice features:
1) Gorgeous receptionist, service counter assistants, and cafe lady
2) Cafe offering beverages, pastries, and other nice snacks for free
3) Lexus IS, ES, GS or RX loaner car every time you car is in even if for an oil change
4) Full-service spa, with free massage, manicure, pedicure or hairstyling if you choose to wait for your service
5) Surround sound large screen theater room
6) The nicest people you will meet in the car industry
7) Lots of showroom cars if you want to browse
8) They do a lot of things for free that other brands charge for, e.g. refilling your tires with pure nitrogen, replacing batteries in the smartkey, programming additional smartkeys.

Some Lexus owners began complaining when their dealership no longer offered Lexus loaners.

And while that is nice and all, I'd much rather have less frivilous amenities in favor of lower prices (both purchase and service).

I know I am repeating myself, but the purpose of selling the Genesis and Equus in the US is to improve the Hyundai brand image so they can sell more Sonatas, etc. Hyundai will live or die based on the sales of their smaller and mid-size cars like the Accent, Elantra, and Sonata (not necessarily referring to EPA size classifications). The percentage of car shoppers who test drive an Accord or Camry who will even look at a Sonata has improved quite a bit recently, but still has a ways to go (it is still less than 50%).

Build the brand. Build the brand. Build the brand.

Yes, yes and more yes.

Also, people will not take the luxury brand seriously if they cannot take the underlying mainstream brand, Hyundai, seriously.

I am not trying to knock the Hyundai dealers here. I am just saying that luxury products are more than just a spec sheet - they are about an experience, and this is something Hyundai should take seriously because they have built a couple of awesome cars in the Genesis and Equus and it would be a shame if they ended up as low volume brand building exercises like the VW Phaeton.

Luxury products are largely spec sheet, quality of materials.

Luxury brand, otoh, is what you were going after.

I mostly agree with you........... as I said before there is no need for Hyundai to create a premium brand since the premium brands already exist...... Having said that Hyundai will create a premium brand if they see a profit in it and if they feel they have automobiles that can compete with those of the premium brands........but when they do you will no longer be talking about what a great value the car is ....... it will be priced as all other premium brands...... the reality is there are those who bought BMW's and Audi's and Mercedes before there were Lexus on the road and they still can't bring themselves to buy a Lexus..... the same would be true for any premium brand Hyundai may create...... Since I don't value the dealer experience I probably would not pay Mercedes prices for a Genesis.......

Upon launch and the through 2 gen cycles, the luxury offerings from Hyundai's premium brand would likely still be below those of most of the other luxury nameplates (in particular, Mercedes and BMW) - tho the "savings" won't be quite as much.

Even if the prices do creep up, as did w/ Lexus, I'd suspect that they would still undercut the Germans and maybe Lexus (by a little bit).
 
Funny, I recently was having this topic discussion with a friend. I was all for rebranding, if the Genesis and Equus are supposed to be luxury cars. To me, there is a certain expectation when something is tagged as luxury. I expect sales people to look and act professionally, I expect the sales people to be not only knowledgeable about their product, but also knowledgeable about their competitor’s product, I expect the sales people to be aware that there are consumers who do due diligence before they purpose most things, especially high ticket items, and I expect them to tell me something I did not know already. Quite frankly, I would expect this if I was buying a Yugo.

I like others that I've seen post on this site pooh poohed considering the Genesis. Why, because it's a Hyundai. That name alone could be a deal breaker. What has changed my mind about getting a Genesis or an Equus, if it made fiscal sense to buy an Equus? My research and three test drives. Getting a used 2008 Lexus GS 350 or 2010 Acura TL are still on my list, however, because of the car and the dealer experience. In the case of both cars, it's the standard features (what they do compared to the Genesis) and the in dealership experience and dealership follow up that are keeping them in the running. Regarding the Hyundai, what I have not experienced first hand, I have experienced by reading dealership reviews (sales and service) and BBB ratings, accreditations or lack there of.

I went to three (1 in TX and 2 in NJ) Hyundai dealerships to test drive the car and to get a feel of the standard features and options. Its one thing to read about the features on a spec sheet, it's quite another to actually use them. At all three they mentioned the car being the 2009 car of year. Ok great, (1) I knew that already (2) ok, so show me and explain to me why or, better yet, ask me what I already know about the car. (3) Don’t just put me behind the wheel of the car, have me drive a half a mile away or around the corner and then aggressively try to get me to by the car.

Only one salesman came remotely close to being able to go over the car. At the dealership in TX, the guy only knew the car was voted car of the year. In addition, I told him I wanted to test drive the 2010 V6 with the Tech Package and one with the NAV package to get a feel of the controls. He had me waiting in the cold; it was an unseasonably cold day in TX, for 10+ minutes. When he returned he claimed the keys for the cars had been moved. He left again, leaving me in the cold (I decided to go inside this time – though a suggestion to come inside, on his part, would have been nice). When he returned this time, he returned with the keyless remote, for a used 2009 with no NAV. During the test drive, when I asked him if there had been feedback regarding how the car handled in the rain with the rear wheel drive, he seemed to not even know the car was rear wheel drive.

In addition, all of the salesmen were completely clueless as to what the NAV and voice control could do. Of course, I knew I can, for example, use the NAV for directions, but can the NAV look up the nearest gas station?, can you upload CDs so you don't clutter your car with CDs?, can you use the voice setting to manage the temperature in the car? NONE of them knew that. When I asked one of the guys this question he began screaming out commands to the car. I couldn't believe it. He was even shocked when I mentioned the TL and some Ford cars have the CD upload feature (up to 50 CDs on the TL). His response was, "wow, really? I don't think this car has that. That's really cool". I raised an eyebrow.

At the two dealerships in NJ, even though I made it clear that I only was there to test drive the car and check it out in person, they both gave me the "what can we do so you leave with a car today?". I didn't get that at the Lexus, Acura, BMW, or Infiniti dealerships. The Hyundai guys kept pressing. They both also asked what payment I wanted, which didn't matter because I wasn't there to buy a car and a savvy car buyer knows to negotiate price not car payment. Basically, both dealerships were very pushy, spending more time trying to get me to go beyond my intentions and less time on talking up the car (selling it).

I had already determined I didn’t want to go to either of the dealerships mentioned above (Global Hyundai in North Plainfield, NJ and Freehold Hyundai in Freehold, NJ) when I was ready to buy, since I didn't like those experiences. Therefore, I decided to save myself time for when I was ready to buy, by finding dealerships based on them being accredited by the BBB, having a rating of A- or better, and reviewing the types and number of complaints. I looked at about 10+ dealerships and only ended up with three on my list. Global Hyundai did not make the list because it had a rating of A-, BUT, it also had 24 complaints. I suspect they were able to have a high rating because they worked with the BBB and resolved most issues, but for me 24 complaints is unacceptable. Freehold Hyundai has an F rating; therefore, they are not accredited.

Speaking of Freehold, I forgot to mention the way in which one of the guys that deals with money part of the transaction handled customers. With me and other customers right there he was verbally abusive to not one, but two customers. Both customers were questioning the agreed upon figures to the figures on the typed up documentaion. From what I could hear with the first altercation, the customer did not like the numbers regarding his trade-in. The Hyundai person (1) was paying attention to his phone and texting while the customer was talking to him (2) at one point threw down his phone on the table after the customer questioned the documentation. Thankfully, the customer decided he had enough. Of course, the Hyundai guy then wanted to know what he could do to keep the customer’s business, but the customer felt the dealership was lacking integrity and he left.

Lastly, there is a dealership in NJ (Brad Benson) that has commercials on the radio. I refused to consider them because their commercials are tasteless. The guy talks about not having sex and relating it to discounts of some sort or him making your car payments or something. Now, I am no conservative, by any means, but come on now!! That’s just tacky. I did check them out on BBB though. I was not surprised to see the have an F rating.

As I started, I have certain expectations and as demonstrated above, I think it is safe to say Hyundai falls well beneath my expectations. Therefore, I suggest, even if they do not rebrand, that they MUST change their dealership practices because if I used that to gauge my decision, I would not be considering the Genesis. I must admit too, I am putting up a cautionary flag regarding the service department experience. Way too many Hyundai dealerships have very bad reviews in that area.
 
I also forgot to mention something I did not like at Global Hyundai and something I saw at Brad Benson when I purposely dropped by on a Sunday to see what they put on their stickers. They both add an additional sticker for additional, unnecessary, features. Where most dealerships kill you with that day of car pickup "for an additional $10/month we can add" spiel, these Hyundai dealerships try to bypass that by packaging all that stuff at the beginning.

I cannot recall what price Brad Benson had for the unnecessary extras, but Global Hyundai's price tag was an additional $10K. The Global Hyundai dealer said the package came with all their cars. When I questioned that and mentioned they were marking up the price of the car, which defeated the purpose of anyone choosing the Genesis, he winked and said "don't worry, you get a 30% percent discount, it makes no difference in price in the end." Apparently, from what I read about Brad Benson they use this 30% discount nonsense too. Even if those packages do not really come with the cars, I do not like that tactic just as much as I do not like the last minute slow down the pick-up process tactic. If I wanted those features, I would ask for them and I would negotiate accordingly.
 
prbwantedalexus -

If you are looking for a Lexus dealer experience, I agree you won't find it at most Hyundai dealerships. They have a ways to go in the many areas you reference. I think you'll find the same to be true at the typical Toyota or Honda dealership as well.

I look at the situation differently. Up till the Genesis, I had been leasing "luxury" brands since my '90 Lexus LS. After the initial dealer visit to do-the- deal, I rarely had occasion to return. In 20 years I never required a warranty fix and had the minimal service requirements (oil changes) done locally. So a superior dealer experience, while a certainly a nice thing, is not much of a consideration for me.

When I test drove the Genesis I loved it as I did the amazing price/value relationship. I also liked the idea of driving the Genesis for its uniqueness.
So,in my case I was more than happy to trade off the dealer experience for the Genesis "package".
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