Hyundai's Dilemma With The Winged Genesis Badge

[Sal Collaziano]

So. We know that Hyundai isn't too happy with dealerships putting the winged Genesis badge on the Genesis. In South Korea, the Genesis comes without any "Flying H" Hyundai badge. In the United States, only the trunk badge is missing the wings from the 2015 Genesis...

How do you think Hyundai feels at this point? Do they feel they made a mistake by using the winged badge on the wheels, steering wheel and front fascia? I'm thinking "yes". I have a feeling they thought "Let's give 'em a bunch of those winged emblems that they like so much - and hopefully they'll leave the rest of the car alone so that we can advertise the Hyundai badge on the most important part of the car" (the rear - which you see most of while driving).

I wonder if the second generation Genesis Coupe is going to have ANY winged badges on it. And I wonder if the same will be true of the 2016 Genesis Sedan. I'm sure people are considering and reconsidering these options over at Hyundai's headquarters. It's apparently a problem. And since they're so worried about it - I imagine we're not going to see a "Genesis" brand (or sub brand) any time soon. If that were in the cards - they'd have no problem with these really nice cars wearing the Genesis winged badge/emblem...

 

[Mark_888]

Hyundai Motor America (which is calling the shots on this), knows that a very large percentage of Genesis owners since 2009 have swapped out the H on the trunk, wheels, and even some on the steering wheel airbag (or at least covered it with the non-OEM wings since a new airbag is fairly expensive). So for 2015 they are just bowing to customer demand and they put wings on the wheels and airbag (as is the case for KDM versions), and it may have worked to increase sales somewhat.

Obviously, HMA still wants people to know it is a Hyundai in order to build the brand image overall (to sell more Sonatas, Elantras, etc), and it is not practical at this time to start a whole separate luxury brand with different dealerships. According to Hyundai's latest advertising campaign, they admit that a lot of people have never test driven a Hyundai ("What's it like to drive a Hyundai Sonata--you have no idea").

Even though the official HMA position is that they prefer dealers not replace the one remaining H on the Genesis trunk, I don't think they are losing too much sleep over it. They realize that if dealers don't do it, most customers will change it themselves via Korean part importers.

 

[xiaphin]

I feel people not seeing the "Flying H" on the back they are more inclined to ask about the car. "Hey, What is that?" rather than "Oh its just a Hyundai"

 

[ckon]

I feel people not seeing the "Flying H" on the back they are more inclined to ask about the car. "Hey, What is that?" rather than "Oh its just a Hyundai"

Yup, I think so, too.

 

[RN2X]

Or they say, what kind of chrysler is that

 

[Sal Collaziano]

It very well could be that once people see the Hyundai badge, they lose interest. In fact, one woman I was speaking to as we were standing next to a new Genesis liked the car and said she'd heard about the "Genesis" brand. After I told her it was a Hyundai, her reaction was just, "Ohh"... I really think Hyundai needs a Genesis brand moving forward.

But... At least this woman now knows she was impressed by a Hyundai - a brand that apparently never really impressed her before. If the Hyundai badge was on it - she would have discounted the car from the get go. The badge seems to mean a lot...

 

[Dai Uy Ted]

I wonder if the second generation Genesis Coupe is going to have ANY winged badges on it. And I wonder if the same will be true of the 2016 Genesis Sedan. I'm sure people are considering and reconsidering these options over at Hyundai's headquarters. It's apparently a problem. And since they're so worried about it - I imagine we're not going to see a "Genesis" brand (or sub brand) any time soon. If that were in the cards - they'd have no problem with these really nice cars wearing the Genesis winged badge/emblem...

Interesting that the current US sedans have wings everywhere but the trunk, if I'm reading these posts correctly.
The 2015 Coupe has no wings anywhere, until we new owners get to amazon or eBay. Now my only "H" is on the welcome screen of the nav display.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Interesting that the current US sedans have wings everywhere but the trunk, if I'm reading these posts correctly.
The 2015 Coupe has no wings anywhere, until we new owners get to amazon or eBay. Now my only "H" is on the welcome screen of the nav display.

Neither the first generation Genesis Coupe or Sedan had Genesis badges anywhere. The second generation Genesis Sedan has Genesis badges everywhere but the trunk. As mentioned, I imagine that's because it's the spot most people will see when on the road - so if you want to advertise that it's a Hyundai - that's how to do it.

I'm guessing the Genesis Coupe will have Genesis badges as well. However, now that Hyundai isn't too crazy about people not knowing the Genesis Sedan is a Hyundai - I have a feeling they're thinking twice about winged badges on the Coupe (and maybe even the 2016 Sedan)...

 

[Top Gear]

I think our cars look silly with big bold "GENESIS" lettering and then H badges, even worse with different badges. Even though the cars are not "badge-engineered", the image of swapping badges is not good, ala General Motors. The wings are a part of the official Genesis logo they went to the trouble of developing, so why this is even an issue is odd at best. The arguments against separating Genesis, and how they treat the Equus, are meaningless when you consider Kia. Why is Kia separate at all?? Yet, even my fan belt has the "Hyundai Kia" logos on it! I don't see Kias coming out with Hyundai badges and confused marketing in commercials - it's just Kia, with no mention of Hyundai.

So, IMO, it's dumb and dumberer to do it both ways, to throw so many brands in the market and expect everyone to automatically be experts on them, to somehow have to constantly explain that they are separate and not separate at the same time, the same when it's one model, but totally separate when it's another. Genesis is what brought me to Hyundai-Kia, and I hope one day it will be Hyundai-Kia-Genesis. They need to get their act together for the next level. I'm actually getting tired of explaining what this car is to people. It's a Genesis!!

 

[Mark_888]

I think our cars look silly with big bold "GENESIS" lettering and then H badges, even worse with different badges. Even though the cars are not "badge-engineered", the image of swapping badges is not good, ala General Motors. The wings are a part of the official Genesis logo they went to the trouble of developing, so why this is even an issue is odd at best. The arguments against separating Genesis, and how they treat the Equus, are meaningless when you consider Kia. Why is Kia separate at all?? Yet, even my fan belt has the "Hyundai Kia" logos on it! I don't see Kias coming out with Hyundai badges and confused marketing in commercials - it's just Kia, with no mention of Hyundai.

So, IMO, it's dumb and dumberer to do it both ways, to throw so many brands in the market and expect everyone to automatically be experts on them, to somehow have to constantly explain that they are separate and not separate at the same time, the same when it's one model, but totally separate when it's another. Genesis is what brought me to Hyundai-Kia, and I hope one day it will be Hyundai-Kia-Genesis. They need to get their act together for the next level. I'm actually getting tired of explaining what this car is to people. It's a Genesis!!

What? As of December 2013, Kia is only 33.88% owned by the Hyundai Motor Group (parent company of Hyundai Motor Company) and Kia operates as a separate company. It is true that Hyundai and Kia have extensive technology and manufacturing sharing agreements, but so have many other automakers over the years.

Just as one example, NUMMI was an automobile manufacturing company in Fremont, California, jointly owned by General Motors and Toyota that operated from 1984 - 2010. The plant produced many different vehicles, some of which were almost identical but sold as both a GM and Toyota version.

The 2009-2012 Genesis V6 used an Aisin 6-speed transmission. At the time, Aisin was 50% owned by Toyota, which started the company to make RWD transmissions (mostly for its Lexus brand). Toyota's share of the company has decreased since then, since Aisin has merged with other companies that diluted Toyota's interest in the company.

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[Mark_888]

What some may not realize is that the KDM wings were because the Genesis is not sold as a Hyundai brand in Korea. It was sort of like Ford and Lincoln. A Lincoln is made by Ford Motor Company, but it has a separate brand.

Same with Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, etc. Back in 2009, coming out of the 2007-2008 financial crisis, there was no way that Hyundai (or potential US dealers) could afford to build an entirely new dealer network for a new brand in the US, nor did they have enough different models to do it with.

 

[Top Gear]

Aren't you totally missing the point? Who cares about all that? If they wanted to follow the Kia model it is very easy to create, or even appear to create, a separate entity and dealer network. It also begs the question of why Genesis and/or Equus weren't done under Kia instead of Hyundai, and that consideration itself means Genesis deserves to be separate.

Hyundai-Kia (or whatever their corporate brand is this year) are really bad at brand marketing. How many more years are we going to have to explain what a Genesis is? Nobody seems to be comparably confused about Lexus, Infinity, Acura, even Scion - they have clear brand identities. I can understand 2008 being a time to soft-launch a new Genesis concept and see how it goes, but that's getting pretty old by 2015. Again, the Genesis and Equus cars deserve to be separate. I'd even add the Veloster in, for a 4-car Genesis R-Spec group. It ain't that hard, since they keep doing it with Kia. Besides, if Kia is all that separate, why is their logo stamped all over your Genesis Sedan parts??

 

[Mark_888]

Aren't you totally missing the point? Who cares about all that? If they wanted to follow the Kia model it is very easy to create, or even appear to create, a separate entity and dealer network. It also begs the question of why Genesis and/or Equus weren't done under Kia instead of Hyundai, and that consideration itself means Genesis deserves to be separate.

Hyundai-Kia (or whatever their corporate brand is this year) are really bad at brand marketing. How many more years are we going to have to explain what a Genesis is? Nobody seems to be comparably confused about Lexus, Infinity, Acura, even Scion - they have clear brand identities. I can understand 2008 being a time to soft-launch a new Genesis concept and see how it goes, but that's getting pretty old by 2015. Again, the Genesis and Equus cars deserve to be separate. I'd even add the Veloster in, for a 4-car Genesis R-Spec group. It ain't that hard, since they keep doing it with Kia. Besides, if Kia is all that separate, why is their logo stamped all over your Genesis Sedan parts??

As I posted previously, Kia is only 33% owned by Hyundai Motor Group, which is the parent company of Hyundai Motor Company. Hyundai and Kia run totally separate marketing strategies, although they share technology and manufacturing (as do other automakers).

Regarding a separate dealer network, it takes two to tango. In the USA, dealerships are independently owned businesses separate from the automaker (usually by state law they must be separate, as Tesla is finding out). A dealer usually needs about $5 million to start a dealership. Are you interested?

Regarding the parts that are shared by Hyundai and Kia, as I mentioned they have technology sharing agreements. Also, Mobis is the parts company owned by Hyundai Motor Group, that supplies parts for both Hyundai Motor Company and Kia. Efficient auto manufacturing is all about economy of scale, and it makes sense to share parts when feasible. But they don't share marketing.

Former Hyundai Motor America president John Krafcik often tried to explain to people that Kia is run as a separate company, and he had no interaction with Kia at all, and had to compete against them.

 

[DRS]

As I posted previously, Kia is only 33% owned by Hyundai Motor Group, which is the parent company of Hyundai Motor Company. Hyundai and Kia run totally separate marketing strategies, although they share technology and manufacturing (as do other automakers).

Regarding a separate dealer network, it takes two to tango. In the USA, dealerships are independently owned businesses separate from the automaker (usually by state law they must be separate, as Tesla is finding out). A dealer usually needs about $5 million to start a dealership. Are you interested?

Regarding the parts that are shared by Hyundai and Kia, as I mentioned they have technology sharing agreements. Also, Mobis is the parts company owned by Hyundai Motor Group, that supplies parts for both Hyundai Motor Company and Kia. Efficient auto manufacturing is all about economy of scale, and it makes sense to share parts when feasible. But they don't share marketing.

Former Hyundai Motor America president John Krafcik often tried to explain to people that Kia is run as a separate company, and he had no interaction with Kia at all, and had to compete against them.

Actually... On a semi serious note.. I would put my wife into a woman's owned business that was a dealership for the separate Hyundai brand. Get land that would allow for the upcoming diversification of many new exciting brands and products because of the new manufacturing techniques that will allow such a thing .. The New brand as mentioned in the thread you are referring to would be a complete dealership. Would be easy as a woman owned business to get the money. Have real men and real women, of total professionalism represent the dealer. I would also approach Tesla and see if they would agree to have a company store (and Supercharger stations) on the same campus (different buildings), outsourcing much of the service, sales and admin to us under tight contract they would measure our performance. I would also seek out the best emerging products that would also be set up on the campus. Mix that in the our own CPO product on the booming used luxury and sports car market. Add in something similar in concept, consumer campus auto/truck fueling and convenience center who lease out space to Cold Stone Creamery, Subway or whatever, would lease out space to other manufacturers and dealers. To have micro locations closer to their customers than their add point stores. Now that I think of it, would locate the service complex where could serve on the campus a auto/truck super service center. People get used to coming for excellent service in their daily auto lives, and investments in the automotive ecosystem. This all would be a step by step process.. All starting with the new brand as the anchor.

I would have dedicated track (on road and off road) where all brands could set up their versions of "Eco-Boost challenges" for potential customers to come in and have dedicated time with cars and trucks. This would be a profit center by itself.

There also is a eco friendly and ride share short term rental market to address. This would include Hyundai adjacent emerging products for this space. Possible to examine as part of the campus experience.

There are tons of entrepreneurs like myself who would jump at the chance to enter and disrupt the automotive channel (distribution chain). Currently the entrenched too many times call the shots. And that includes the Hyundai "separate brand" dilemma. Hyundai or Tesla, you listening? PM me.

 

[Mark_888]

Would be easy as a woman owned business to get the money.

How so? Banks are hardly loaning money to any businesses since the 2007-2008 financial crisis, and especially not small business. A women owned business has an advantage with government contracts, but not in getting private financing for a car dealership. And even if a loan was obtained, I don't think a Genesis/Equus dealership would survive financially.

A lot of people assume that people in charge at Hyundai are idiots, and although I don't agree with all their decisions, I can't really fault them much on US marketing. They have resurrected a brand that was considered garbage in the US about 15 years ago, to a formidable competitor to the Japanese brands today. But they still have a ways to go in terms of brand acceptance.

 

[Top Gear]

Yes, Mark, we all understood what you meant. It is irrelevant, don't you see? The percentage of ownership is a side note, a non-sequitur, a change of subject, and just doesn't matter. What matters is the market perception among car buyers. Should I bold that in red, too?

 

[Mark_888]

Yes, Mark, we all understood what you meant. It is irrelevant, don't you see? The percentage of ownership is a side note, a non-sequitur, a change of subject, and just doesn't matter. What matters is the market perception among car buyers. Should I bold that in red, too?

Are you saying that there is a market perception among buyers that Kia and Hyundai are the same company? I doubt that, but even if true for some buyers, what difference does it make?

The point I was making is that Hyundai cannot tell Kia what to do, because they don't own them. There is a big difference between 51% and 33% ownership.

 

[DRS]

How so? Banks are hardly loaning money to any businesses since the 2007-2008 financial crisis, and especially not small business. A women owned business has an advantage with government contracts, but not in getting private financing for a car dealership. And even if a loan was obtained, I don't think a Genesis/Equus dealership would survive financially.

A lot of people assume that people in charge at Hyundai are idiots, and although I don't agree with all their decisions, I can't really fault them much on US marketing. They have resurrected a brand that was considered garbage in the US about 15 years ago, to a formidable competitor to the Japanese brands today. But they still have a ways to go in terms of brand acceptance.

SBA and blended funding... Women owned does make a difference in how easy to get the cash. Preferences are available.

 

[Mark_888]

SBA and blended funding... Women owned does make a difference in how easy to get the cash. Preferences are available.

Not even the Pope can get a loan to build a car dealership these days.

 

[Top Gear]

Mark, I can see from this and the oil thread you enjoy wasting our patience on non-arguments. Your rather irrational position is based on your assertion about ownership among HK companies, which somehow shows the Genesis cars cannot be presented as a separate brand in the marketplace, which is false. Your additional points are that the Genesis is automatically perceived as a separate brand, which is false, and that Hyundai and/or Kia could not launch more than two separate brands, also false.