I am in deep trouble? 2009 Genesis

[Mark_888]

I don't know about coolant. But, this happened on a very dry day. So, cannot be water damage. Could you expand on what sounds fishy? My thought is the dealer has to open the engine and they want to charge me for that labor and put this on the warranty company.

When they ran the diagnostic, I was told cylinder 5,6 mis-fired. Today, I hear some spring valve broke. I am not a mechanic, so don't know much about how all these interact.

I guess I don't understand how you verified it is a Hyundai Motor America CPO? IMO, there is only one way to do that, which is to call another dealer and give them the VIN (I assume you know where to find that). If you have a third party CPO equivalent, that is not the same as a HMA CPO.

The coolant is really 50% water and 50% coolant. The coolant flows through various tunnels in the engine block to cool the engine, but if the head gasket leaks, then the coolant/water can get into a cylinder, and it can interfere with the combustion and could cause parts to break. But a little bit of water will not usually cause an engine to fail. If the head gasket leaks, that is not your fault. The only other way to get water in the engine block is via the gas, the oil fill tube, or if you pulled a spark plug and poured water into the cylinder (not counting pulling injectors, valve covers, or head, etc).

From what I understand, all your maintenance is done at the dealer? Where do you buy your gas?

 

[ccmsmackay]

if you have misfires on more then one cylinder then a broken valve spring probably isn't the problem unless there is a broken valve spring on each of the misfiring cylinders.

 

[2009_va_genesis]

Mark - You are correct I have not called another dealer. I will do that tomorrow. I travel for work and have not had the chance to do so. I am 99.9% sure, it will come out as CPO. The following are the reasons why I believe this is CPO.
1) I went and looked at my warranty documents and it says it is covered by Hyundai for 10 years 100K miles.
2) I would not buy non-CPO used car, but my doubts grew based on what you had mentioned about non Hyundai certification. This is my first used car and without a good warranty I would not make a big purchase. I did more for this car as compared to non CPO used cars. Again, I went back and checked my papers to check what is written in my warranty from the dealer when I bought the car.
3) I had an issue with this car 2 years back and they (JM&A) spent a lot of money replacing an engine. At that time, the car had 63K miles which would have been beyond the 60K warranty and I am not sure this would have been covered if this was not a CPO. At that time, I was told JMA covers warranty even on CPO when it has more than 60K miles.

P.S.: The dealer I am dealing with now is not the dealer I bought the car from. So, there are no dealer warranty at play here.

All my maintenance is at the dealer. Before the engine seized in 2011, I used to perform oil changes at gas stations etc. I did the runaround to collect most of the receipts by going through my credit card statements, talking to the gas stations, jiffy lube etc. to get the receipts over 2 years. But after that experience, I have been sticking with the same dealer even though the quality of oil is no better (anecdotal) and it is expensive. It has been 25K miles, 4 oil changes at around 5-6K intervals. I fill gas at a regular gas station (exxon, shell, costco etc.).

mackay - On the actual issue, I am just relaying what the dealer tells me. I am not directly talking to the mechanic at the dealer. The cylinder misfire is what I was told during the diagnostic and the spring valve break was what I was told today after talking to the warranty company. It might be the reason why the warranty company wants to tear it down to see what is wrong, Maybe they feel it is not just the spring valve.

My takeaway: I got a bad engine which broke down, warranty paid for replacing it by building a new one, did not do it well enough and there are recurring issues.

I am 99% certain there are no water damages (coolant issues etc. i am not certain), no vandalism, no improper use of the car - dad with 2 kids, very safe driver...let us see what I hear back from the dealer. I think they should be done with tearing the engine down as i was told it takes 6 hours (6x$120 = $720).

 

[2009_va_genesis]

I called a couple of other dealers and I was told by both to call the dealer I bought the car from to confirm this as they wont have that kind of records since I didnt buy it there. i was told this before I gave out my VIN#, nothing to do with my specific car. I can call the dealer where i bought it from tomorrow morning. I moved since I bought and I service at a different dealer.

Apparently, one can go into lexus website and punch in the VIN to find out whether it is a CPO or not. Wish Hyundai could do the same.

 

[Mark_888]

I am 99% certain there are no water damages (coolant issues etc. i am not certain), no vandalism, no improper use of the car.

I agree, but the engine is not being examined by you or an independent mechanic from what I can tell. I still don't understand the JMA connection to this. Whatever.

 

[2009_va_genesis]

Yes. Neither I nor an independent mechanic is evaluating this. I have some faith in the system that they are not going to place a faulty engine issue on me.

regarding JM&A, this is the email I got from Hyundai regarding this issue..
"If you have not already done so, we recommend that you contact our Hyundai Protection Plan (HPP) JM&A Hyundai Claims Center by calling (866) 367-9040, for assistance with questions regarding your warranty coverage. We are confident that you will find the customer service representatives happy to assist with any additional questions you may have about your HPP contract and coverage. "

Anyways, I will wait to hear from them. thanks for all your suggestions on this.

 

[Mark_888]

Yes. Neither I nor an independent mechanic is evaluating this. I have some faith in the system that they are not going to place a faulty engine issue on me.

Since the dealer asked you for a $120 diagnostic fee, and a $750 tear-down fee, I have my doubts about them.

 

[427435]

I thought the Hyundai 10/100,000 warranty included the engine. Why is JMA even involved?

 

[Mark_888]

I thought the Hyundai 10/100,000 warranty included the engine. Why is JMA even involved?

He bought the car used as a CPO. As you know, the 10/100,000 drivetrain warranty is only available to original owners, unless it is a CPO.

I thought (as you did) that the CPO restoration of the drivetrain warranty is handled by HMA just like the manufacturer warranty, but it appears that they contract with JMA to extend it for CPO used cars.

 

[2009_va_genesis]

I have doubts about the dealer too and have more trust in JMA. I think JMA makes the call on what they are on the hook for.

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[svensk]

What a shitty dealer. I would have them pack up the car and have it shipped to a different one.

 

[427435]

He bought the car used as a CPO. As you know, the 10/100,000 drivetrain warranty is only available to original owners, unless it is a CPO.

I thought (as you did) that the CPO restoration of the drivetrain warranty is handled by HMA just like the manufacturer warranty, but it appears that they contract with JMA to extend it for CPO used cars.

I, too, thought the CPO would cover it------------------I wonder if the dealer took a shortcut????

 

[2009_va_genesis]

I want to say the dealer took a short cut, but why would a warranty company cover a new engine if they are not on the hook? This car had engine issue in 2013 and I took it to the same dealer. The dealer and JM&A replaced the engine. They did initially give me runaround on getting receipts of oil change etc. (back in the day I did not always take it to the dealer). I also asked them at that time, why JM&A and not Hyundai and I was told after 60K miles JM&A covers powertrain. Did not ask whether it was only for CPO or not at that time.

They should have opened up the engine on Tuesday. The dealer dais it takes 6 hours. Have not heard back since even after leaving voicemail. Will go there tomorrow in person and check it out.

 

[Mark_888]

I want to say the dealer took a short cut, but why would a warranty company cover a new engine if they are not on the hook? This car had engine issue in 2013 and I took it to the same dealer. The dealer and JM&A replaced the engine. They did initially give me runaround on getting receipts of oil change etc. (back in the day I did not always take it to the dealer). I also asked them at that time, why JM&A and not Hyundai and I was told after 60K miles JM&A covers powertrain. Did not ask whether it was only for CPO or not at that time.

They should have opened up the engine on Tuesday. The dealer dais it takes 6 hours. Have not heard back since even after leaving voicemail. Will go there tomorrow in person and check it out.

I am pretty sure that JMA is not involved in normal Hyundai manufacturer warranty claims. Apparently they are involved in the CPO warranty, which extends the drivetrain warranty to 10/100K. Only original owners get the 10/100K drivetrain warranty as part of the Hyundai manufacturer warranty.

BTW, a lot of the early 2009 4.6 engines had problems when someone started a cold engine, shut it off almost immediately, and starting it again. That behavior sometimes left the valves in the wrong position, and violent shaking of the engine occurred, damaging internal engine parts. There are many threads in this forum about that issue.

My guess is you got a rebuilt engine (or a used one from totaled car), and not a new one when they "fixed" it in 2013.

 

[Big_tugg]

are you using Fairfax Hyundai?

 

[2009_va_genesis]

Hello All - update here. I got a call from the dealer that the car is fixed and I don't have to pay anything (except a $50 deductible). Picked up the car and it seems to run fine.

On the JM&A, it is very much possible it is a CPO thing. If it is, it should be made clear at the time of selling a CPO. It is eerie that the first time this happened was on Oct 12th 2013, and now on Oct 13th 2015.

 

[Dave Friedman]

I also have a Genesis 2009 and the engine needs replacing after 75,000miles. They are trying to use the extended warrantee I purchased for $1800 through Fidelity Warranty Services. They said a part failed in one of the cylinders, but it ended up being much more after the Mission Hills dealership in Ca. has the car over 1 month. The warrantee co. wants to put a used engine 8 cylinder since they do not make 09 engines. Am I reasonable in wanting a new 2016 engine even if it needs to be retrofitted to the 09 car or replace the car? Any knowledge of my rights or what has been done in the past?

 

[Mark_888]

I also have a Genesis 2009 and the engine needs replacing after 75,000miles. They are trying to use the extended warrantee I purchased for $1800 through Fidelity Warranty Services. They said a part failed in one of the cylinders, but it ended up being much more after the Mission Hills dealership in Ca. has the car over 1 month. The warrantee co. wants to put a used engine 8 cylinder since they do not make 09 engines. Am I reasonable in wanting a new 2016 engine even if it needs to be retrofitted to the 09 car or replace the car? Any knowledge of my rights or what has been done in the past?

1. It is not good forum etiquette to post the same thing in two different threads.

2. I answered your other post, but there is no way they can put the 5.0 V8 (which is only V8 made after 2012) in your car without replacing the transmission, ECU, emissions system, etc, so that is a non-starter. The new 5.0 engine is a GDI (gasoline direct injection), so almost everything would need to be replaced.

 

[shagnat]

Not a bad idea to post in more than one thread. Some folks don't live on here and may miss the information that was posted twice. No harm no foul.