Is my Genesis Dealer trying to pull a bait and switch?

[BadTrainDriver]

Its a lease. Won't they be billing the actual owner?

I only ever leased one car in CT. It was registered to GMAC, not me.

Who actually owns a leased vehicle?
When you lease a car, you have no ownership interest in the vehicle. The title is kept by the leasing company, and you'll have specific limits on how you can use it, how many miles you can drive without a penalty, how you are expected to maintain it, and what condition it must be returned in.

EdP hit the nail on the head, as this is a LESSOR problem, not a LESSEE problem.

 

[hd222]

EdP hit the nail on the head, as this is a LESSOR problem, not a LESSEE problem.

They bank wont fund the deal. That is why he should drive it and rack up the miles making it less appealing for the dealer to rescind the transaction.

 

[Unprocessed1]

They bank wont fund the deal. That is why he should drive it and rack up the miles making it less appealing for the dealer to rescind the transaction.

My two options now are:

1) Preemptively reach out to the sales manager and ask him why the discrepancy with the sales prices and sales tax, and make it clear the prospect of me forking over another $1300 is unacceptable to the point I will unwind the lease/return the car. Not sure what, if any risk is involved with the option of basically warning that I’m onto them.

2) Wait for the dealer to reach out and tell me I owe $1300. There is no way in hell I’m giving a direct payment to the dealer. It would have to be to the DMV directly. I ideally don’t want to pay anything I shouldn’t, and will make it clear to the dealer I will be posting negative reviews including the screenshots showing how they lied to me, and contacting Genesis corporate to inform them of what they did to a customer.

 

[Chad86tsi]

My two options now are:

1) Preemptively reach out to the sales manager and ask him why the discrepancy with the sales prices and sales tax, and make it clear the prospect of me forking over another $1300 is unacceptable to the point I will unwind the lease/return the car. Not sure what, if any risk is involved with the option of basically warning that I’m onto them.

2) Wait for the dealer to reach out and tell me I owe $1300. There is no way in hell I’m giving a direct payment to the dealer. It would have to be to the DMV directly. I ideally don’t want to pay anything I shouldn’t, and will make it clear to the dealer I will be posting negative reviews including the screenshots showing how they lied to me, and contacting Genesis corporate to inform them of what they did to a customer.

Either way you will end up at #2, so I'd just go for #1 now and let them get churning on a solution before you have a tax liability problem. If you wait, they will let #2 happen on it's own because it puts the buyer in a liability situation and give them leverage. Why let them put you in a liability situation before unwinding becomes unavailable? We don't' have copy of the contract, so we don't know what unwinding provisions are in there.

 

[EdP]

Either way you will end up at #2, so I'd just go for #1 now and let them get churning on a solution before you have a tax liability problem. If you wait, they will let #2 happen on it's own because it puts the buyer in a liability situation and give them leverage. Why let them put you in a liability situation before unwinding becomes unavailable? We don't' have copy of the contract, so we don't know what unwinding provisions are in there.

Why do anything? Why ask for trouble? Let the dealer sort it out. I don't see how it gives them leverage for anything aside from looking at incompetent fools. How is it putting him in a tough situation? He is just renting use of a car.

 

[Unprocessed1]

Why do anything? Why ask for trouble? Let the dealer sort it out. I don't see how it gives them leverage for anything aside from looking at incompetent fools. How is it putting him in a tough situation? He is just renting use of a car.

At the end of the day, I really don’t want to return the car. It would be a hassle not only for them, but me as well. I just want them to live up the numbers they agreed to.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Why do anything? Why ask for trouble? Let the dealer sort it out. I don't see how it gives them leverage for anything aside from looking at incompetent fools. How is it putting him in a tough situation? He is just renting use of a car.

Not all states apply tax rules the same.

from the OP:

My state taxes the entire sale price of the car, not just the leased portion. It’s short by roughly $1300. My idea was to contact Genesis Corporate as a way of informing them about one of their dealerships is doing to customers. I even have emails from me telling them how my state taxes leases and they responded with a price breakdown showing the correct sales tax and sales price as agreed upon. They changed the numbers with the actual lease contact.


I signed this addendum to the retail order (which seems to be separate than the lease contract), and doesn’t list any sales tax since the only line was for sales tax for the dealership’s state.


Seems the original deal was "X" , and what was put into the contract was Y. That creates a tax disparity (liability).

If you read the addendum image on post #11, you will see who gets to pay for this disparity - the OP.

He's legally bound to this at this point.

 

[mythdoc]

I agree. OP should announce to dealer intent to unwind the lease. Better to know exactly where you stand while you have the option.

 

[Unprocessed1]

I agree. OP should announce to dealer intent to unwind the lease. Better to know exactly where you stand while you have the option.

Would the threat of telling them I’d want to unwind the lease be enough to give them pause on trying to collect “extra” money from me? And not to mention, it would include negative reviews from me on every review site. Not sure how that is all worth an extra $1300 ripping off a customer. Again, I just want to keep the car.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Would the threat of telling them I’d want to unwind the lease be enough to give them pause on trying to collect “extra” money from me? And not to mention, it would include negative reviews from me on every review site. Not sure how that is all worth an extra $1300 ripping off a customer. Again, I just want to keep the car.

ultimately that is your greatest leverage. What is your our desire to keep the car vs paying another $1300 on top of the already committed funds (36 x $804) to your local state? They have a contract that says you will do this already, it's just a matter of getting them to honor prior agreements, for which they have no legal duty to do so from what you have shared so far. The contract (written or verbal) you signed overrides whatever you had in writing prior. Unwinding is the only legal option for you from what it seems.

I generally don't condone threats of social castration as it sounds more retaliatory and diminishes your position of reasonableness in most peoples minds, but I don't think its wrong in the least to leave honest reviews either. I've given honest harsh reviews, but it was not "do this or else". This is more a personal matter, and they may not give a crap if they already have plenty of unhappy customers, then you just end up looking like a whiner.

I leased a Tahoe in 1997. After I had it for 3 days, they called and said the bank needed another $2600 down. I said "OK, I'll come in at 4:30 today and you can give me back my trade in". They said "let me call you back and see what I can do". They called me 3 hours later and said they were giving me $1800 more down (from my trade in) and I only needed to bring them $800 which went towards my principal and this $2600 reduced my payments. I said I'd come by at 4:30 with a check for $800. I did and it was all sorted out that day. They don't want to unwind a deal, especially if it's been driven a few hundred miles. I paid the lease off 8 months later with a regular loan at a great rate.

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[jetrep]

I may have missed it but did the dealer arrange the registration for your state or is that your responsibility?

 

[Unprocessed1]

I may have missed it but did the dealer arrange the registration for your state or is that your responsibility?

The dealer is arranging it. And the plates would be mailed to them from the VA DMV to NJ and then the dealer mails them to me in VA.

 

[Unprocessed1]

Here is what I’m texting the sales manager today:

Upon reviewing the lease, it looks like the $500 off MSRP that we agreed on was not honored and instead the sale price was marked up while the sales tax was reduced by $1300 to make up the difference, which is only half of the sales tax owed to VA. It’s especially concerning since while the sales tax was the correct amount in your quote, your F&I guy told me “this is the way we do it for all our VA customers” when I questioned him about the $1300 discrepancy. Will not be pleased if you or the DMV contact me in a few weeks saying I owe $1300 on sales tax to get the car registered. In that case, I will return the car

 

[tb3573]

If it were me, I'd go softer on the last sentence and give them a chance to explain - perhaps say you're concerned you'll get a tax bill from VA. Also, if you just say "it seems" that the $500 off MSRP wasn't included in the deal, it opens up both topics for discussion.

You can still get aggressive in the next response, but perhaps not create confrontation in the initial contact.

My $.02

 

[Chad86tsi]

Here is what I’m texting the sales manager today:

Upon reviewing the lease, it looks like the $500 off MSRP that we agreed on was not honored and instead the sale price was marked up while the sales tax was reduced by $1300 to make up the difference, which is only half of the sales tax owed to VA. It’s especially concerning since while the sales tax was the correct amount in your quote, your F&I guy told me “this is the way we do it for all our VA customers” when I questioned him about the $1300 discrepancy. Will not be pleased if you or the DMV contact me in a few weeks saying I owe $1300 on sales tax to get the car registered. In that case, I will return the car

If they are wrong, or believe they are wrong, they won't respond to you at all. Once you are out the door and they have a contract and some of their cash, most dealers will have nothing to do with you, even if they still owe you something. Add in you are out of state and this is just amplified tremendously. The language needs to demand a reply, but not off-putting or not aggressively. If no response in 24 hours, get aggressive. They will ignore you if they can. Even good dealers will do this once a sale has been made. Any contact that they have with you going forward will cost them $$, and they know this. A customer never converses with a sales person after a sale to give up any cash.

 

[Unprocessed1]

Well I reached out and got a very quick reply back. Sales manager insists the calculation is correct and their computer calculates it automatically. But then he said taxes are only on lease payments and not on the total cost of the car. and ended by saying “if there was any discrepancy we would not be funded by the financial institution. You are fine.”

However, I know this isn’t the case in VA. The sales tax is on the entire cost of the car, doesn’t matter if it’s a lease.

 

[inmanlanier]

I agree with the softer version of the text, but I would go one step further. I would put some wording to the effect that until you have registration in hand (i.e. to me that acknowledges a fully paid state sales tax), you will likely withhold the amount you determined that is due your state from the lease payments. Of course, you are open to them negotiating other forms of remedy.

On a related note, although it did not reach the sale point - when I made arrangements here in South Florida about 80 miles away for a purchase of a 2015 Genesis 5.0 at Rick Case Hyundai, after agreeing to their advertised (internet) price and their stated policy on trade in, and scheduling an appointment to go and close the purchase two afternoons later (and documenting everything via email with the 'internet manager') - 3 hours later the internet price of the car went up several hundred dollars. The email games started the next morning and they would not commit to the original negotiation. In True-Car (or whatever it's called), they have price history. I saved a screen shot. Anticipating issues, in parallel I reached out to the State of Florida. The dealer never committed, and their practice was more or less in violation of State Statute. In the end, I filed a formal complaint with the State of Florida Attorney General's office. The following is my quote from my final email to the dealership: "We have decided we will not do business with your company – ever. As I stated with you earlier, I will be filing with the Attorney General’s office regarding your violations of Florida Statute 501. It appears your industry is so well practiced in deceit that they have two separate sections (Parts II and VI just) dedicated to the automotive business. I see relevance in numerous subsections."

I also filed a complaint with Hyundai Corporate with all the particulars.

Good luck, keep us posted please.

 

[Unprocessed1]

Well I reached out and got a very quick reply back. Sales manager insists the calculation is correct and their computer calculates it automatically. But then he said taxes are only on lease payments and not on the total cost of the car. and ended by saying “if there was any discrepancy we would not be funded by the financial institution. You are fine.”

However, I know this isn’t the case in VA. The sales tax is on the entire cost of the car, doesn’t matter if it’s a lease.

Is it worth responding to them now or wait until registration clears or I get a bill sent my way from the dealer or DMV? I’d be fine if the dealer covers any additional sales tax due, and I’m 99% sure extra taxes will be owned to the DMV.

This is what I’d send:

From what I heard from the VA DMV, the sales tax for VA, including leases, is on the entire upfront cost of the car. It’s how I was taxed for my last out of state lease. I assume that Genesis of Freehold will cover any additional expenses if the VA DMV says additional sales taxes are due to register the car since the sale price was increased to reflect a lower sales tax total and reach the agreed upon monthly payment that included all taxes and fees.

 

[EdP]

I agree with the softer version of the text, but I would go one step further. I would put some wording to the effect that until you have registration in hand (i.e. to me that acknowledges a fully paid state sales tax), you will likely withhold the amount you determined that is due your state from the lease payments. Of course, you are open to them negotiating other forms of remedy.

I'd not do that. The dealer is possibly at fault. The finance company is not. They will see late payments. I can see late payments showing up on his credit report.

 

[Chad86tsi]

Is it worth responding to them now or wait until registration clears or I get a bill sent my way from the dealer or DMV? I’d be fine if the dealer covers any additional sales tax due, and I’m 99% sure extra taxes will be owned to the DMV.

This is what I’d send:

From what I heard from the VA DMV, the sales tax for VA, including leases, is on the entire upfront cost of the car. It’s how I was taxed for my last out of state lease. I assume that Genesis of Freehold will cover any additional expenses if the VA DMV says additional sales taxes are due to register the car since the sale price was increased to reflect a lower sales tax total and reach the agreed upon monthly payment that included all taxes and fees.

You will want to get the addendum you showed in post 11 rectified - either explicit explanation of who pays what in a manor that satisfies you, or cancelation. They already have themselves protected from this issue from the looks of things. They way it's written, anything beyond what is already accounted for in the contract is on you, it's pretty clear. They will wait you out.