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K&N air filters for my 2015 Genesis 5.0

Yea I clean twice a year. Every vehicle we own has a KN filter - 2004 GMC Envoy V8 5.3, 1990 Isuzu 2.6 Space Cab, and 2006 Suzuki Burgman.
I as well have put K&N filters in all my cars. The only (temporary) exception, however my F Type R Jag just had the paper filters replaced on Jaguar's nickel as part of the 5 year warranty / maintenance - so with my previous 550/502 (stock HP/Torgue) and now my 640/592 (HP/Torque from tune/pulley) I've not been motivated to spend the $100 or so and go through the physical gymnastics to change them out. The performance is sufficient w/o the improvement ;). Likely in a year or two they will be K&Ns. Other than the Jag, K&N is the only filter I've ever put in my vehicles.
 
Yep, use 'em for the money saving aspect.
 
I will not spend money on a dyno test just to prove that I feel that my engine is running better with a performance filter. However, I will do a few runs at the local drag track to see if the published 1/4 mile times improve.

I will not even attempt to say what you should have felt or not on your cars, but I know what it feels like for my car.

All said and done is that my 2015 does feels like it runs stronger with the K&N filters in my car. Could you show me some proof that you installed the filter in your car. Did you have a thread on the old cars that highlighted the install and lack of results? Possibly with dyno numbers?
If the engine is getting more air there will be a difference
 
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I've read this whole trail and am surprised at all the back and forth.

Time for some axioms - as my bud says - the laws of physics are immutable. YES - a lower restriction - you get more flow. I can show you the engineering equations that have been proven time and time again. No doubt about it. Engines are simply air pumps - fuel is not the limitation - air flow is. The more air you get in the more HP you will produce. Period. That's an axiom - period. NO - filtration is not necessarily inversely related to flow (i.e. better flow means worse filtration); hence why in many industries filtration is rated by 'efficiency'. And no, oil based filters do NOT mean they don't filter. I've never seen the explanation about the method of the K&N filters (until now viewing the Aussie video link above), but I've seen enough tests to show they DO flow better and guess what - they also filter fine. The 'Aussie's' report on why the filter works seems to make sense to me. Why do you think we have volumetric efficiencies greater than 1 in normally aspirated engines? The Ford Coyote engine (10+ years old now?) blew everyone away with it's published data when it came out - a peak volumetric efficiency approaching 1.15! How did they do that? With the same acoustics (i.e. pulsations) that the Aussie talks about and tuning for it. And if you don't know what I mean when I say that you have simply proven my point then you shouldn't be making blanket statements of what can or can't be. With steady air flow (i.e. non pulsed) it's physically impossible to get a volumetric efficiency greater than one. With pulsing flow, however due to valves opening and closing - and playing with lengths and diameters - at various RPM (i.e. frequencies), you can design your flow tubes to benefit from the pressure pulses going back and forth (acoustics). This to me is a plausible explanation for how the K&N filters both flow well and also effectively filter. As the dirt particles move through that larger opening through which they try and flow - the movement of the element allows the oil to 'grab' the dirt.

With respect, Carguy75 - had you run your on-board testing software first with the paper filters and gotten a time, then within a very short time swapped filters to K&Ns and rerun the same exact tests on the same day, on the same road, by making many runs, with very similar atmospheric conditions - not only do I think you would be surprised at how close the times would end up, but you would have garnered the respect of those doubting the credibility of your claims. I agree with you that there are gains in air flow and power from the K&Ns; I just believe they are small compared to your claims. I'll bet your variations in each run time would be greater than the average improvement after K&N vs. before.

There is HUGE variability from time to time with regard test conditions. Heck - look at how Motor Trend screwed up quoting the C8 dyno data!

Bottom line is, you can't compare your test for your car after swapping filters to some other vehicle tested some other time, with Lord knows what conditions and claim the difference is valid and representative of an improvement due to your filters.

Having said that, like I said before - you think you've made great gains and you're happy with your thoughts there - so - GOOD FOR YOU! Rock and roll and celebrate. Just recognize that scientifically minded folks with engineering backgrounds and data focused brains are going to doubt your claims with just one test, comparing that data to another over in Oz land, and purporting that the differences (which as documented above reflects large HP gains) are plausible and credible. HP calculators abound from empirical tests over the years. They show that a 0.3 second improvement is a substantial gain in power - quite a bit more than any gains I've seen before on K&Ns.

Some time back I wanted to update my Jag with a tune - I was able to purchase one with a 7 day unconditional return policy. My buddy and I then set out to run tests (like you - I didn't want to spend a few hundred bucks on dyno tests. Because just like your test - on a dyno you need to make several pulls to see what is really representative. So, my buddy and I went out and did at least 20 pulls AT SPEED (not zero to 60) with a stop watch and paper. We did single gear pulls, usually at 50 plus MPH to 90 or 100 - and used a stop watch, usually 3,000 RPM to 6000. This is because the variables of launch and other low speed dynamics introduce a lot of variation. Speed, however is where the wind drag is much more repeatable. We did both directions to account for wind. For our tests, I'd start at the same RPM, count down my launch, then advise the tach RPM as we approached the top RPM mark so my bud could get ready for the stop click. We did it many times because just between us speaking the variations in time from pressing start and stop, me reading RPM out, etc. were large. It was only after many many pulls that we had a central tendency (average) of change that was measurable - and it was not large. It was there - but the variations from any given run could have been greater than average tune improvement. For you to have plausible results with your zero to sixty timer - you need to do multiple pulls in each direction, and you should do it with both the paper and K&N in order to have meaningful data.

Again - good for you - you're very happy with the results. Enjoy and relax. Just don't try and convince everyone else on the planet with your very limited data that what you speak is verifiable. Don't forget - I'm on your side there are HP gains with K&N, just that I don't think they are anywhere as large as you purport. I state this with respect to your zeal.
 
Any gain you make from a filter will be inside the margin of error for a dyno.
 
And to Suburbazine's point - yes - small. That' does not, however mean there is no improvement. With repeatable tests, you should see a shift in mean. I assert that the improvement cannot likely be quantified without doing many tests (as my buddy and I did with my Jag). A single test is not valid data due to Suburbazine's point. I happened upon this video link yesterday and thought I would share. It's to the very topic.
 
LOL. Unless someone dyno a 2015 5.0 with stock filters vs. K&N filters none really knows the actual gain or loss. I can guess a 20hp gain while some else will guess 1hp, however noone really knows the actual numerical difference of the two filters performance. All I know is that my Genesis "feels" quicker since the swap. Therefore, I am happy with the K&N performance so I am good.

I "guess" 15-20hp flywheel based on the engine adaptability with its variable valve timing and lift combined with the larger higher flowing K&N filter surface area compared to the smaller stock filter surface area. The stock filters are sad plastic plates as seen in my earlier posts. However, my guess is only speculative as everyone else.
 
I'm happy I put mine in, regardless of the HP change, whether large or small, I really did feel it. I also added a ram air induction modification to the air box and full 2-1/2" stainless exhaust from the manifold back, that too all helped. The stock intake and exhaust system has a lot of choke points. I also like that I won't have to replace them, only clean them. Every modification supplements another, use them in conjunction and they all work better. If you have 3 modifications and each can add 10 HP on it's own, if you use them together you can gain 40 HP.
 
And to Suburbazine's point - yes - small. That' does not, however mean there is no improvement. With repeatable tests, you should see a shift in mean. I assert that the improvement cannot likely be quantified without doing many tests (as my buddy and I did with my Jag). A single test is not valid data due to Suburbazine's point. I happened upon this video link yesterday and thought I would share. It's to the very topic.
Interesting. The K&N performance filter shaved 2/10th off the Crosstrek acceleration time and allowed the engine to gain 2% more hp on the dyno.

If I apply the data for the Crosstrek to my Genesis then my Genesis would have gained 8hp and be 2/10th quicker just by swapping to an K&N air filter based on the test. However, the Genesis engine is more advanced and larger so the gains would much larger I believe. Plus, our engine do not have a post-filter that also restricts airflow.
 
I just watched the continuation filter test for the Crosstrek with the carbon filter removed. The engine gained a total of 7hp to the wheels on a dyno without the post-filter with the K&N filter installed. I may be wrong , but I am sure that the Genesis 5.0 engine gains more power with twin K&N filters that also has more filter surface area than the stock air filters.
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A small improvement on the dyno but acceleration tests showed no gain from stock to K&N filter.
 
A small improvement on the dyno but acceleration tests showed no gain from stock to K&N filter.
He performed the acceleration tests in 2nd gear from 20mph-60mph, which would be in the low rpm range that require less power and airflow. Therefore, I am not surprised that the performance would be similar since high performance air fliters usually increase high rpm performance. It would be like running our Genesis in "snow" mode up to 60mph; the engine would not require much air to run in that rpm range therefore the stock filter flows just fine per the engine needs in that moment.

Note: The ECU also adjust the engine parameters(timing,air fuel ratio,shift points,etc) based on airflow as well which takes time for the ECU to adapt to and fine tune. The video owner was mostly hot-swapping filters without allowing the ECU to make fine adjustment to the changes. However, still a great test that was performed that mimics real world driving.
 
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If you were to use the 20-60 mph/2nd gear test in the Genesis, it does start out low rpm (20 mph = 2300 rpm) but at 60 mph the Genesis is turning 6600 rpm, 200 rpm over the redline.
 
If you were to use the 20-60 mph/2nd gear test in the Genesis, it does start out low rpm (20 mph = 2300 rpm) but at 60 mph the Genesis is turning 6600 rpm, 200 rpm over the redline.

So for the 3/4 of the test, the engine isn't at full RPM or near the power peak, and the air filter isn't doing much.

Air filters help the peak power, not the whole power band. This can be seen on a dyno graph, and it's why increased 0-60 is not how air filter manufactures advertise their gains. HP is HP, but 0-60 or 20-60 is a more useful measure for sure.

Once the engine is relined at WOT, the next gear drops the RPM's down a thousand RPM or so, keeping the engine in the range where air filter benefits can be felt best. This is why you can feel them when they are present and benefiting the engine.
 
If you were to use the 20-60 mph/2nd gear test in the Genesis, it does start out low rpm (20 mph = 2300 rpm) but at 60 mph the Genesis is turning 6600 rpm, 200 rpm over the redline.
What model; the 3.8 or 5.0?
 
I've read this whole trail and am surprised at all the back and forth.

Time for some axioms - as my bud says - the laws of physics are immutable. YES - a lower restriction - you get more flow. I can show you the engineering equations that have been proven time and time again. No doubt about it. Engines are simply air pumps - fuel is not the limitation - air flow is. The more air you get in the more HP you will produce. Period. That's an axiom - period. NO - filtration is not necessarily inversely related to flow (i.e. better flow means worse filtration); hence why in many industries filtration is rated by 'efficiency'. And no, oil based filters do NOT mean they don't filter. I've never seen the explanation about the method of the K&N filters (until now viewing the Aussie video link above), but I've seen enough tests to show they DO flow better and guess what - they also filter fine. The 'Aussie's' report on why the filter works seems to make sense to me. Why do you think we have volumetric efficiencies greater than 1 in normally aspirated engines? The Ford Coyote engine (10+ years old now?) blew everyone away with it's published data when it came out - a peak volumetric efficiency approaching 1.15! How did they do that? With the same acoustics (i.e. pulsations) that the Aussie talks about and tuning for it. And if you don't know what I mean when I say that you have simply proven my point then you shouldn't be making blanket statements of what can or can't be. With steady air flow (i.e. non pulsed) it's physically impossible to get a volumetric efficiency greater than one. With pulsing flow, however due to valves opening and closing - and playing with lengths and diameters - at various RPM (i.e. frequencies), you can design your flow tubes to benefit from the pressure pulses going back and forth (acoustics). This to me is a plausible explanation for how the K&N filters both flow well and also effectively filter. As the dirt particles move through that larger opening through which they try and flow - the movement of the element allows the oil to 'grab' the dirt.

With respect, Carguy75 - had you run your on-board testing software first with the paper filters and gotten a time, then within a very short time swapped filters to K&Ns and rerun the same exact tests on the same day, on the same road, by making many runs, with very similar atmospheric conditions - not only do I think you would be surprised at how close the times would end up, but you would have garnered the respect of those doubting the credibility of your claims. I agree with you that there are gains in air flow and power from the K&Ns; I just believe they are small compared to your claims. I'll bet your variations in each run time would be greater than the average improvement after K&N vs. before.

There is HUGE variability from time to time with regard test conditions. Heck - look at how Motor Trend screwed up quoting the C8 dyno data!

Bottom line is, you can't compare your test for your car after swapping filters to some other vehicle tested some other time, with Lord knows what conditions and claim the difference is valid and representative of an improvement due to your filters.

Having said that, like I said before - you think you've made great gains and you're happy with your thoughts there - so - GOOD FOR YOU! Rock and roll and celebrate. Just recognize that scientifically minded folks with engineering backgrounds and data focused brains are going to doubt your claims with just one test, comparing that data to another over in Oz land, and purporting that the differences (which as documented above reflects large HP gains) are plausible and credible. HP calculators abound from empirical tests over the years. They show that a 0.3 second improvement is a substantial gain in power - quite a bit more than any gains I've seen before on K&Ns.

Some time back I wanted to update my Jag with a tune - I was able to purchase one with a 7 day unconditional return policy. My buddy and I then set out to run tests (like you - I didn't want to spend a few hundred bucks on dyno tests. Because just like your test - on a dyno you need to make several pulls to see what is really representative. So, my buddy and I went out and did at least 20 pulls AT SPEED (not zero to 60) with a stop watch and paper. We did single gear pulls, usually at 50 plus MPH to 90 or 100 - and used a stop watch, usually 3,000 RPM to 6000. This is because the variables of launch and other low speed dynamics introduce a lot of variation. Speed, however is where the wind drag is much more repeatable. We did both directions to account for wind. For our tests, I'd start at the same RPM, count down my launch, then advise the tach RPM as we approached the top RPM mark so my bud could get ready for the stop click. We did it many times because just between us speaking the variations in time from pressing start and stop, me reading RPM out, etc. were large. It was only after many many pulls that we had a central tendency (average) of change that was measurable - and it was not large. It was there - but the variations from any given run could have been greater than average tune improvement. For you to have plausible results with your zero to sixty timer - you need to do multiple pulls in each direction, and you should do it with both the paper and K&N in order to have meaningful data.

Again - good for you - you're very happy with the results. Enjoy and relax. Just don't try and convince everyone else on the planet with your very limited data that what you speak is verifiable. Don't forget - I'm on your side there are HP gains with K&N, just that I don't think they are anywhere as large as you purport. I state this with respect to your zeal.
I understand that some members need hard data to be convinced of a product effectiveness, however I only have time in my life to install a product and report what performance results I perceive to have occurred. Furthermore, even if I provided more data, some member would still pick the testing method apart if they are not convinced of the results.

As in many debates, I am willing to look at data that actually proves my observations to be false about the performance gains of K&N filters in an actually Genesis 5.0 engine aside from theories and hypothetical science to why it does not work as perceived.
 
I've read this whole trail and am surprised at all the back and forth.

Time for some axioms - as my bud says - the laws of physics are immutable. YES - a lower restriction - you get more flow. I can show you the engineering equations that have been proven time and time again. No doubt about it. Engines are simply air pumps - fuel is not the limitation - air flow is. The more air you get in the more HP you will produce. Period. That's an axiom - period. NO - filtration is not necessarily inversely related to flow (i.e. better flow means worse filtration);
I think your friend is playing loose with the laws of physics. I can agree with restrictions, oiled filters but the more air is not necessarily more HP. You still need a good fuel ratio. The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio is 14.7 to 1 but more power can be obtained closer to 13:1 Most auto engines can use more air but there is a curve. He should consider dropping the "period" and replace it with "usually"
 
LOL. I simply use them to save money. I can clean in spring and fall and save money over paper filters. I've saved a BUNDLE over the past couple of decades with K&Ns in all my vehicles and motorcycle.
 
I think your friend is playing loose with the laws of physics. I can agree with restrictions, oiled filters but the more air is not necessarily more HP. You still need a good fuel ratio. The stoichiometric air/fuel ratio is 14.7 to 1 but more power can be obtained closer to 13:1 Most auto engines can use more air but there is a curve. He should consider dropping the "period" and replace it with "usually"
It's not just my friend - Ed - me and motor folks as well. When I said that it was with the assumption that none of the other variable parameters get altered - like as you mentioned air fuel ratio, timing, cam timing, etc. The nominal changes in air flow that a more efficient filter should enable should not likely alter any of those parameters. That's what I mean when I say air (actually oxygen) is, in fact the HP limitation; with the unstated assumption 'all things being equal'.
 
It's not just my friend - Ed - me and motor folks as well. When I said that it was with the assumption that none of the other variable parameters get altered - like as you mentioned air fuel ratio, timing, cam timing, etc. The nominal changes in air flow that a more efficient filter should enable should not likely alter any of those parameters. That's what I mean when I say air (actually oxygen) is, in fact the HP limitation; with the unstated assumption 'all things being equal'.
Actually changes in airflow does affect the 5.0 engine parameters in which the engine make changes for by advancing/retarding timing, controlling fuel injector flow, adjust valve lift,etc to run at peak performance with the available airflow. Hence, why the engine will still run smooth even if the stock air filter is dirty by adjusting parameters to maintain a proper air fuel ratio to account for the reduced airflow compared to a clean stock air filter.

However, how much the 5.0 engine adjust to additional airflow over the stock air filters in up for debate since no one actually performed an proper test on the differences of the performance filter vs. the stock filter. Only speculative data exist based on individual perception(or theories) of possible gains or losses, including my own testimony.
 
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