Lexicon Speaker Replacement

[morsegeek]

Ever since I purchased my V6 Premium Plus Genesis last month I have heard a minor but persistent and annoying buzz when listening to bright acoustic guitar music and other music including stringed instruments on my 14-speaker Lexicon System. It seemed to be emanating from the passenger side A pillar speaker, which is a tweeter.

Since the vibration, or buzz, only occurs for specific types of music and even then is difficult to discern, I was worried about the response I might get from the dealer if I brought it into have them look at it; they might be unable to hear what my ears did. I finally found a track that exhibited the problem quite clearly at about volume level 15 and up (Knotty Pine by David Byrne and the Dirty Projectors from the recent Dark Was the Night Compilation) and brought it into my dealer today. The first Tech was skeptical whether there was anything wrong but he had two "platinum-level certified" Techs check it as well and they agreed that there was a problem with the speaker and they will replace it under warranty.

While I am quite happy with the outcome, it is a little troubling that this problem occurred in the Lexicon system at all, one that is supposedly built to the highest standards. Has anyone else experienced problems with their Lexicon System that required service?

I will post again once the speaker is replaced on the outcome of the service.

 

[jonah]

Sorry you're having trouble with your lexicon system, i agree that you'd expect it to be perfect and that any imperfection in such a quality system is magnified and shouldn't be overlooked. I'm glad they're replacing the speaker for you, hope the new one doesn't rattle. At least your dealership has platinum techs or whatever, mine probably wouldn't know where to begin or even acknowledge any annoyance problems with the sound system.

I haven't heard the specific problem you're referring to, but I do have a buzz in my rear deck anytime there is moderate bass of a certain frequency, it drives me nuts. Raising the rear shade helps most of the time but I don't feel like I should even have to do that. I've considered taking it in but I think I'll try to fix it myself first. Sad I have to do that but I signed up for this in a way when I bought from a small town dealer. I don't mind too much and in the end I just learn more about my car anyway. Hope your system sounds perfect soon.

out of curiosity, does yours ever rattle in the rear deck when you hit about a 200Hz or lower bass tone?

 

[JOwest]

I haven't heard the specific problem you're referring to, but I do have a buzz in my rear deck anytime there is moderate bass of a certain frequency, it drives me nuts. Raising the rear shade helps most of the time but I don't feel like I should even have to do that.
out of curiosity, does yours ever rattle in the rear deck when you hit about a 200Hz or lower bass tone?

It is quite possible that the buzzing sound comes from the vibration of the sunshade against its housing and not from the speaker itself.
Have you try to gently press the sunshade when you hear the buzzing?

 

[Mark_888]

I doubt seriously if Lexicon makes their own speakers (that is a very specialized business), but every indication from the quality of the sound is that they are very high quality drivers from reputable firms. Keep in mind that speakers are not like some equipment in that there is no relationship between the quality of the sound and whether it can be damaged by abuse.

Abuse in this case would be sending more power to the speakers than they are designed to handle. This is especially true of the tweeters, which are fairly delicate and can easily be damaged by excess power from the amp (many tweeter are fluid cooled to help dissipate the heat of the voice coil under extreme load). Given that the amps on this system are prodigious (very high output power) it is possible for a speaker voice coil to be damaged.

Early on there was a known problem with the amps, and the dealers where instructed to turn the power to very high levels to test the amp during dealer prep to make sure it was working properly. I am not sure if they were supposed to this with the output to the speakers disconnected, but It would not surprise me if some people got their speakers damaged this way, but this is just speculation.

 

[ImInPA]

While the Lexicon division of Harmon International may not make the speakers, it is very likely that Harmon International did. Harmon International owns many audio brands including but not limited to Infinity (speakers), Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Harmon Kardon, Harmon Becker, AKG, Revel, to name a few. The are huge in the audio industry and has over 10,000 employees. Big company and they manufacture everything from amps and head units to speakers.

 

[morsegeek]

out of curiosity, does yours ever rattle in the rear deck when you hit about a 200Hz or lower bass tone?

While I was diagnosing the source of the problem and trying to find a recording that would replicate it consistently, I used this free audio test CD: http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd .

As you can see from the track list it has both logarithmic and linear frequency sweeps as well as tones ranging from 16 Hz to 20 kHz. I did that testing a while ago, so I don't remember the specific frequencies, but I do remember that at moderately high volumes the car there was significant vibration of multiple parts of the car at low frequencies (I seem to remember from about 60-200 Hz). It did not seem to be originating just from the rear but much of the car and I chalked it up to the fact that no car is a perfect sound stage and at high enough volumes in such a small space some vibration is inevitable. I will check more thoroughly again using that CD and let you know what I find. I'll also try putting up the rear sun shade to see if that mitigates the low frequency vibration as you experienced.

Interestingly, none of the audio samples on that audio test CD (mostly sine waves) could replicate the buzzing that I hear in the passenger side A pillar tweeter. Only recordings with stringed instruments seem to do so.

Early on there was a known problem with the amps, and the dealers where instructed to turn the power to very high levels to test the amp during dealer prep to make sure it was working properly. I am not sure if they were supposed to this with the output to the speakers disconnected, but It would not surprise me if some people got their speakers damaged this way, but this is just speculation.

That's certainly a possibility. My Genesis was manufactured in June 2008 so it may have had that testing done. I have not turned my volume up excessively and also expect that the maximum volume of the Lexicon system is within the specifications of the drivers but during that test damage could certainly have been done, especially to the voice coil. Hopefully the speaker replacement will solve the problem.

 

[jonah]

While I was diagnosing the source of the problem and trying to find a recording that would replicate it consistently, I used this free audio test CD: http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd .

thanks for the link; i'm downloading it now and i'll give it a try later today, maybe see if i can isolate my problem. i'm 90% sure it is in the shade, but also 90% sure that it probably can't be easily fixed due to the nature of the shade installation (that is, fixed without disabling the shade).

today is going to be a day of wrenching on my Genesis. I'm finally going to fix those dam position lights/DRLs/whatever, pad my shade to cut out the buzz, wash and wax to get the winter crum off and sit back tonight with a scotch and ice and ENJOY. thanks all!

 

[Mark_888]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about amplifier power and speaker power handling capacity. In almost all high end systems (home or car), if you (or a Hyundai tech) played at maximum power it certainly could blow some of the speakers. Speakers are not "spec'ed" based on power handling capacity, they are selected based on how good (accurate) they sound. A well designed system will have more amplifier power than a speaker can handle for long periods, because realistic music may need to have momentary transients reproduced cleanly (without amplifier overload, aka clipping) with very high amounts of amplifier power that are not necessarily dangerous to speakers if the peaks are only transient.

Regarding audio test CD's, be very careful with these. As noted above, normal music has many transients peaks that are a natural part of music. These peaks can play at very loud volumes for short periods and not overheat sensitive voice coils (particularly on tweeters or some mid-ranges). But when you play a test CD, they typically have continuous tone recordings that do not consist of musical peaks and valleys of power output, and thus they put a much higher stress on voice coils in terms of potential overheating and damage if played at volumes that might not seem that loud compared to music.

 

[ExecOutcomes616]

My brother and I both have the same issue with our cars. Anywhere over 12 on the volume knob, the entire door seems to rattle. I think it's just the way the car was made. The Genesis is a great car but it is not constructed as soundly as a BMW/MB/Lexus so things are going to rattle or break easily. I asked my dealer about the rattle and they said there was nothing they could do about it. Sorry Charlie.

 

[DanTheMan]

My brother and I both have the same issue with our cars. Anywhere over 12 on the volume knob, the entire door seems to rattle. I think it's just the way the car was made. The Genesis is a great car but it is not constructed as soundly as a BMW/MB/Lexus so things are going to rattle or break easily. I asked my dealer about the rattle and they said there was nothing they could do about it. Sorry Charlie.

I've had mine since Aug. '08, and I've had the system up....way up a few times! Never any rattling noise of any kind at any time! Makes me wonder if it's just something in your particular vehicle.

I don't crank it too much now...I'm at the stage of my life (my hearing, actually) where normal to slightly loud volumes are just fine...I want to hear for the rest of my life w/o any assistance!

Dan :>)

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[Mark_888]

My brother and I both have the same issue with our cars. Anywhere over 12 on the volume knob, the entire door seems to rattle. I think it's just the way the car was made. The Genesis is a great car but it is not constructed as soundly as a BMW/MB/Lexus so things are going to rattle or break easily. I asked my dealer about the rattle and they said there was nothing they could do about it. Sorry Charlie.

A professional auto sound installer can probably fix the rattle if it is coming from the door or other part of the vehicle and not the speaker itself. They just need to add some sound deadening material. I can understand the dealer not wanting to do that since it requires parts that do not come with the car (they will replace existing defective parts but not add parts that are not spec'ed) and they are not audio installation experts.

But make sure you rule out whether the speaker itself is rattling, in which case it needs to replaced.

 

[morsegeek]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about amplifier power and speaker power handling capacity. In almost all high end systems (home or car), if you (or a Hyundai tech) played at maximum power it certainly could blow some of the speakers. Speakers are not "spec'ed" based on power handling capacity, they are selected based on how good (accurate) they sound. A well designed system will have more amplifier power than a speaker can handle for long periods, because realistic music may need to have momentary transients reproduced cleanly (without amplifier overload, aka clipping) with very high amounts of amplifier power that are not necessarily dangerous to speakers if the peaks are only transient.

I'll clarify what I meant by saying that I "expect that the maximum volume of the Lexicon system is within the specifications of the drivers." You are correct in saying that high end systems' power amplifiers are usually capable of 2-2.5x the power that the speakers are capable of handling for sustained periods in order to accurately reproduce loud transients without clipping. This power capability, though, has nothing to do with the maximum volume setting accessible to the user. I expect that the Lexicon system maximum volume set by the driver does not approach peak power of the amplifier and is well within the specified loads of the drivers in the car. Anything else would be poor design; the people driving Genesis cars are not professional audio experts and to allow them to unwittingly overdrive their audio system would be a poor design choice, one I'm sure Hyundai didn't make.

My brother and I both have the same issue with our cars. Anywhere over 12 on the volume knob, the entire door seems to rattle. I think it's just the way the car was made. The Genesis is a great car but it is not constructed as soundly as a BMW/MB/Lexus so things are going to rattle or break easily. I asked my dealer about the rattle and they said there was nothing they could do about it. Sorry Charlie.

The vibration that I observed was not quite as bad as what you seem to be experiencing. It almost never occurred while listening to music (most noticeable on the audio test CD) and only for low frequencies at very high volumes, say about 25 or so. When it does occur it is vibration in the driver side door as well as all the other three doors, each of which has a woofer in it. I'm pretty sure it was not the speaker vibrating though, but rather the entire car, and cars are not ideal sound stages. There's probably not much that can be done about it short of adding more sound deadening material by a professional sound installer. I'm happy with the Lexicon system on the whole, though, and suspect you'd find similar behavior in other cars. When I purchased the Genesis I didn't expect an anechoic test chamber

 

[Mark_888]

I'll clarify what I meant by saying that I "expect that the maximum volume of the Lexicon system is within the specifications of the drivers." You are correct in saying that high end systems' power amplifiers are usually capable of 2-2.5x the power that the speakers are capable of handling for sustained periods in order to accurately reproduce loud transients without clipping. This power capability, though, has nothing to do with the maximum volume setting accessible to the user. I expect that the Lexicon system maximum volume set by the driver does not approach peak power of the amplifier and is well within the specified loads of the drivers in the car. Anything else would be poor design; the people driving Genesis cars are not professional audio experts and to allow them to unwittingly overdrive their audio system would be a poor design choice, one I'm sure Hyundai didn't make.

Hyundai did not design the system, they sourced it Lexicon. I am sure they specified certain requirements, but I doubt seriously that Hyundai micro-managed the specifications.

I understand what you are saying about making sure the power amp cannot over-drive a speaker, even if it is theoretically of doing so, but I have never seen that kind of limitation on a high end car or home system. There are too many variables in music content, speaker drivers, etc to set such a limit. A continuous tone at moderate volume may melt a tweeter voice coil, but music with much louder peak sound levels (but not continuous) may be fine.

BTW, volume controls are not linear in terms of power output to the speakers. Typically at the 12 o'clock position, the power output no more than 10% of the maximum that the system is capable of.

Unless people are deaf, I don't see how they could easily over-drive the speakers.

 

[morsegeek]

I had the speaker replaced today. It took the techs at my dealer (Morrie's 394 Hyundai in Minneapolis) just over 45 minutes to replace the A pillar tweeter that was buzzing and reprogram the airbag.

I have no idea what caused the problem in the first place--perhaps it shipped from the factory that way--but the buzzing is finally gone and I can enjoy the Lexicon system in all it's unadulterated beauty!

 

[Zoom]

Ever since I purchased my V6 Premium Plus Genesis last month I have heard a minor but persistent and annoying buzz when listening to bright acoustic guitar music and other music including stringed instruments on my 14-speaker Lexicon System. It seemed to be emanating from the passenger side A pillar speaker, which is a tweeter.

Since the vibration, or buzz, only occurs for specific types of music and even then is difficult to discern, I was worried about the response I might get from the dealer if I brought it into have them look at it; they might be unable to hear what my ears did. I finally found a track that exhibited the problem quite clearly at about volume level 15 and up (Knotty Pine by David Byrne and the Dirty Projectors from the recent Dark Was the Night Compilation) and brought it into my dealer today. The first Tech was skeptical whether there was anything wrong but he had two "platinum-level certified" Techs check it as well and they agreed that there was a problem with the speaker and they will replace it under warranty.

While I am quite happy with the outcome, it is a little troubling that this problem occurred in the Lexicon system at all, one that is supposedly built to the highest standards. Has anyone else experienced problems with their Lexicon System that required service?

I will post again once the speaker is replaced on the outcome of the service.

I know this is an old thread, but I need to replace the right rear deck (package shelf) speaker of my 2012 Gennie 3.8 and any advice would be appreciated. I am an audio hobbyist but I'm uncertain how to access the driver itself. Thanks