List of Stand-Alone Genesis Dealerships

[turnne]

Are t

Based on available info, the year ended with far fewer than 20+ new dealerships but if you have info on additional locations that opened, please post so the list below can be updated.

Thank you.

CA
	GENESIS SANTA MONICA	1100 Santa Monica Blvd, Santa Monica, CA 90401	424-268-8087
LA
	GENESIS OF LAFAYETTE	6600 Johnston St, Lafayette, LA 70503	877-856-2961
SC
	GENESIS OF GREER	13740 E. Wade Hampton Blvd., Greer, SC 29651	855-867-7083
VA
	GENESIS OF SOUTH RICHMOND	9530 Midlothian Turnpike, Richmond, VA 23235	804-521-0200
WI
	GENESIS OF APPLETON	2900 Victory Lane Appleton, WI 54913	(920) 939-3333

Are these 5 actually open now?

Warren

 

[Tau]

Are t

Are these 5 actually open now?

Warren

Yes, Santa Monica and South Richmond are in pre-existing buildings, but Santa Monica has a new building under construction. The others are in new buildings with the GMA signature design.

 

[turnne]

Yes, Santa Monica and South Richmond are in pre-existing buildings, but Santa Monica has a new building under construction. The others are in new buildings with the GMA signature design.

when you say " pre-existing" for the Sana Monica and South Richmond locations

Do you mean connected to a Hyundai dealer or a free standing existing building that was remodeled?

Warren

 

[Tau]

when you say " pre-existing" for the Sana Monica and South Richmond locations

Do you mean connected to a Hyundai dealer or a free standing existing building that was remodeled?

Warren

Freestanding. To qualify for the "Freestanding" list, locations must meet minimum requirements indicated in the separate thread below:

Genesis Car Dealerships (Freestanding)

The purpose of this thread is only to compile a list of freestanding Genesis dedicated stores operating in the U.S., that each have all of the following minimum attributes: 1.) Separate freestanding non-mobile building(s) dedicated for Genesis sales, parts, and service. (might...

genesisowners.com

 

[AntmanNC]

Freestanding. To qualify for the "Freestanding" list, locations must meet minimum requirements indicated in the separate thread below:

Genesis Car Dealerships (Freestanding)

The purpose of this thread is only to compile a list of freestanding Genesis dedicated stores operating in the U.S., that each have all of the following minimum attributes: 1.) Separate freestanding non-mobile building(s) dedicated for Genesis sales, parts, and service. (might...

genesisowners.com

Need to add another one to the list; Coconut Creek Genesis in Coconut Creek, FL is now open as of January 5th(according to their facebook page). Seems to be the only stand alone dealership in Florida currently. Here's the link Coconut Creek Genesis

 

[turnne]

Need to add another one to the list; Coconut Creek Genesis in Coconut Creek, FL is now open as of January 5th(according to their facebook page). Seems to be the only stand alone dealership in Florida currently. Here's the link Coconut Creek Genesis

I would check that one out...if someone lives in the area and can verify
There is a Hyundai dealership with an address quite similar....so I wonder if there could be something shared between the two such as a service department etc

Warren

 

[AntmanNC]

I would check that one out...if someone lives in the area and can verify
There is a Hyundai dealership with an address quite similar....so I wonder if there could be something shared between the two such as a service department etc

Warren

 

[Tau]

Updated List of Freestanding Genesis Dedicated Locations

Freestanding Genesis Dedicated Stores

I'd prefer to stay anonymous due to my position and opinions posted on a public forum. What I can say is that everyone is in the same boat. Any dealer group has to have a real hard on for the brand to consider spending the money. That or a twisted arm. Front end profit on EVs isn't there and...

genesisowners.com

 

[YEH]

How could you debunk anything....
There is no way Toyota had a crystal ball to know how many vehicles they were going to sell when they brought Lexus to market in 1989

What significance does the 3rd year that Lexus was in the US market have to Genesis?

Warren

Again, the issue isn't whatever sales were going to be, but whether the manufacturer had/has the production capacity to adequately support the dealers.

Toyota had plenty of production capacity to supply the Lexus dealer network back then, as well as presently; Hyundai does not.

Even with the initial 100 dealerships plan, we're talking (based on last year's sales) each of the 100 dealerships selling around 50 vehicles a month - which is just adequate (but not for a dealership in a high cost area such as NYC or LA).

But Genesis isn't supporting 100 dealerships as initially planned, but 3x as much, so, on avg., each dealership currently is getting far less vehicles than needed to adequately support a free standing store, much less a brand new free standing store.

So, if Hyundai is to be criticized for anything, it's not adequately planning for increased production capacity (been saying for years that they needed a new plant in NA and not China - which ended up being a complete boondoggle).

Also, Genesis is a far bigger success in its domestic market than what Lexus is today in Japan, and even more so then when Toyota sold the LS, ES, RX, etc. initially as higher-end Toyota models.

The significance is that in its 3rd year, Toyota was able to support its smaller dealer network with over 90k vehicles.

Genesis is in its 6+ yr and still can't provide its much larger dealer network anywhere close to 93k vehicles.

What is not more expensive than it was in 1989?

The other part of that is that they built Lexus dealerships in luxury ( very expensive) prime property locales in 1989

Again, from what I see of Genesis they are not trying to enter the high volume luxury markets

So again..your points dont hold water, because Toyota did just that with Lexus

Even if we use your " allocation" point that just drives prices over over MSRP.provided the demand is there in the first place

Warren

But in certain markets (like NYC, DC, LA, SF), land is appreciably more expensive (relative to inflation), and auto dealerships require substantial plots.

Thus, why would any dealership/dealership group spend the $12-18 million needed for an all new dealership in those high cost areas when they don't have nearly the allocation of vehicles to even just break even?

Lexus dealerships were making a profit within a couple of years as they had enough vehicles to sell.

The difference is that costs have gone way up and Genesis dealerships can't presently get enough vehicles to sell to recoup that cost, much less even come close to breaking even.

That won't really change until the new HMG BEV plant is completed - which will build the GV90 and probably 1-2 additional Genesis models.

This really is a SIMPLE concept.

A new auto dealership, esp in a high cost area, is a capital intensive endeavor, so need to move a lot of product to cover the costs.

Presently, Genesis cannot provide enough vehicles for dealerships to cover the costs, much less make a profit.

What dealership/dealership group in their right mind would be taking massive losses for 10 yrs?

We are seeing new dealerships built now (first in lower cost areas) as the supply of vehicles should be adequate when the new HMG plant is completed - so, only would be incurring losses for 2-3 years as opposed to a decade.

 

[turnne]

Again, the issue isn't whatever sales were going to be, but whether the manufacturer had/has the production capacity to adequately support the dealers.

Toyota had plenty of production capacity to supply the Lexus dealer network back then, as well as presently; Hyundai does not.

Even with the initial 100 dealerships plan, we're talking (based on last year's sales) each of the 100 dealerships selling around 50 vehicles a month - which is just adequate (but not for a dealership in a high cost area such as NYC or LA).

But Genesis isn't supporting 100 dealerships as initially planned, but 3x as much, so, on avg., each dealership currently is getting far less vehicles than needed to adequately support a free standing store, much less a brand new free standing store.

So, if Hyundai is to be criticized for anything, it's not adequately planning for increased production capacity (been saying for years that they needed a new plant in NA and not China - which ended up being a complete boondoggle).

Also, Genesis is a far bigger success in its domestic market than what Lexus is today in Japan, and even more so then when Toyota sold the LS, ES, RX, etc. initially as higher-end Toyota models.





But in certain markets (like NYC, DC, LA, SF), land is appreciably more expensive, and auto dealerships require substantial plots.

How would you know how much capacity Toyota had to build Lexus at the time?


From what I see they opened up 65 dealerships without really knowing what was going to happen.....Big risks for Toyota and the dealers

They sold 16000 units in 1989 with 65 dealers and a presence in every luxury market in the United States

Yes..I do realize that I am comparing what was a start up brand , in the United States, versus Genesis that is 7 model years in


Not sure what the Korean market has to do with anything?....apples and oranges there

Yes..I am aware that land is FAR more expensive in the luxury markets

But yet ...all the luxury goods vendors seem to think its worth the extra money to be as close to the biggest fish as they can for some reason

Warren

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[YEH]

^ Again, it doesn't matter whether Toyota knew how well or poorly Lexus would sell.

They, irregardless, had to plan for enough production capacity to support the dealer network in place.

Infiniti didn't sell as well as Nissan was hoping for, but Nissan had the production capacity set aside to support Infiniti.

Hyundai's plan was to support 100 dealerships, but due to lawsuits, ended up being 300.

Even with the addition of the GV70 and GV80, current production would be merely adequate to support a network of 100 dealerships, but fall far short of supporting 3x as many.

Why don't you go ahead and take out a loan of $2.5 million for a McDonald's franchise in LA, but the catch being that McDonald's only being able to supply enough burger patties, buns, nuggets, fries, etc. for you to recover 25-30% of your costs for a decade - and let's see how that goes.

But you probably wouldn't even be able to get a loan.

You don't think banks are asking to look at projected revenue for the next 5 to 10 yrs from Genesis dealerships before forking over the millions required for a new standalone auto dealership?

What do think the answer from banks would be when the response is that don't project to avoid heavy losses for a decade until the supply issue is rectified.

Geeze, this is just common sense!

 

[turnne]

^ Again, it doesn't matter whether Toyota knew how well or poorly Lexus would sell.

They, irregardless, had to plan for enough production capacity to support the dealer network in place.

Infiniti didn't sell as well as Nissan was hoping for, but Nissan had the production capacity set aside to support Infiniti.

What?...that doesnt even make sense

Lexus sold 16,000 units with 65 dealers of an unknown brand
They sold 63000 in 1990, their first full year, without about 110 dealers

So..I am guessing that 63000 units would supply 110 dealers with inventory

For comparison Genesis sold 56000 units in 2022 with basically 1 free standing dealer

You are right, Infiniti didnt do nearly as well..but they put the dealerships out there at the very beginning as well

Its a gamble..Toyota rolled the dice and won
As I said years ago when I speculated that genesis would not have a free standing dealership in 5 years
People buy luxury goods in the United States in a certain fashion

Warren

 

[YEH]

What?...that doesnt even make sense

Lexus sold 16,000 units with 65 dealers of an unknown brand

Are you serious?

Again, that 16k sold in 1989 was for only 4 months - Sept to Dec) - so, as already stated, were moving a good 62 vehicles, on avg, per Lexus dealership.

Absolutely no comparison to the 16, on avg, per Genesis dealership for 2022.

They sold 63000 in 1990, their first full year, without about 110 dealers

So..I am guessing that 63000 units would supply 110 dealers with inventory

For comparison Genesis sold 56000 units in 2022 with basically 1 free standing dealer

You are right, Infiniti didnt do nearly as well..but they put the dealerships out there at the very beginning as well

Its a gamble..Toyota rolled the dice and won
As I said years ago when I speculated that genesis would not have a free standing dealership in 5 years
People buy luxury goods in the United States in a certain fashion

Warren

For 1990, the typical Lexus dealership sold 48 vehicles a month (likely higher as many of those dealerships didn't come online til the 2nd half or end of the year), but depending on locale, doing 48/month in sales would garner a decent profit, breaking even or a modest loss.

Selling 16/month (like where Genesis is at), otoh, guarantees a huge loss for a standalone operation.

And within just 2 yrs, Lexus was able to expand sales/supply to 93k, so dealership profitability improved within a short amount of time.

With 275 dealerships in its network (down from 300), Genesis won't have the supply to even allocate 48 vehicles per month for several more years, if that (that Lexus dealerships were able to enjoy in Lexus' 1st full year of sales, nevermind the 70 vehicles a month Lexus dealerships were doing by 1992).

With US production of the eGV70, Genesis dealerships may get over the 20 vehicles a month mark, but still way below what it would take to break even.

And yet, we are seeing construction of new, standalone Genesis dealerships - because the hope is that when the new BEV plant is completed, supply will then be enough for standalone dealerships to at least break even.

So unlike the early Lexus dealerships, Genesis dealerships are building new standalone stores despite knowing that they will be incurring several years of heavy losses and additional # of years of being around the breaking even point.

 

[turnne]

You a

Are you serious?

Again, that 16k sold in 1989 was for only 4 months Sept to Dec) - so, as already stated, were moving a good 62 vehicles, on avg, per Lexus dealership.

Absolutely no comparison to the 16, on avg, per Genesis dealership for 2022.






For 1990, the typical Lexus dealership sold 48 vehicles a month (likely higher as many of those dealerships didn't come online til the 2nd half or end of the year), but depending on locale, doing 48/month in sales would garner a modest profit, breaking even or a modest loss.

Selling 16/month (like where Genesis is at), otoh, guarantees a huge loss for a standalone operation.

You are making my point for me

They only sold what they sold through the dealers that they had...its just the numbers
Lexus only had 110 dealers that moved vehicles 63000 vehicles in 1990 all year

Again, I am going to say that those sales of 60K ish vehicles supported those 110 dealers

Lets use Infiniti since you mentioned it. They had 51 dealers at launch
They only sold about 24,000 vehicles in the first full year,1990

Not sure where you come up with these ideas that a business can actually plan for sales that they have not even firmly sold yet?!
That would be every business owner's dream. To be able to change, upsize, downside etc for guaranteed sales that have not occurred yet

My point is
Both Toyota and Nissan figured of what they needed to do to launch a brand to be even viable in the United States. Infiniti clearly has not been nearly as successful, but I would argue they would have done even worse if they had chosen to sell their luxury brand at a Nissan dealership

Warren

 

[YEH]

^ And 60k+ (which Genesis still hasn't done) wouldn't come close to being able to support a 275 standalone dealer network.

Like I had stated before, if Genesis had been able to go through with the initial 100 dealer network, we would have seen new Genesis standalone dealerships much earlier and at greater numbers.

But once the planned production capacity had to be divided among 300 (instead of 100) dealerships, that put the kibosh on plans to build standalone stores until it came closer to the time Genesis was able to provide more vehicles (like now).

 

[turnne]

^ And 60k+ (which Genesis still hasn't done) wouldn't come close to being able to support a 275 standalone dealer network.

Like I had stated before, if Genesis had been able to go through with the initial 100 dealer network, we would have seen new Genesis standalone dealerships much earlier and at greater numbers.

But once the planned production capacity had to be divided among 300 (instead of 100) dealerships, that put the kibosh on plans to build standalone stores until it came closer to the time Genesis was able to provide more vehicles (like now).

I show 56,000 in Genesis sales in 2022...and there was 1 free standing dealer

Other brands in a similar price range have sold near that amount of vehicles with a significant established dealer network

And I realize you like to jump ahead and use future sales as some sort of litmus test for managing business....as if that is reality
let me debunk that right now

Unless you have a crystal ball?

Warren

 

[DaleNet]

You two should have taken this to private message. You have killed this thread with all your bantering back and forth. It really matters not what Toyota did in the days of introducing Lexus. To be honest, cars are much different and the way they are being built and sold is much different. We will all have to wait and see what happens.

 

[turnne]

You two should have taken this to private message. You have killed this thread with all your bantering back and forth. It really matters not what Toyota did in the days of introducing Lexus. To be honest, cars are much different and the way they are being built and sold is much different. We will all have to wait and see what happens.

I dont disagree with you...it matters what is done today and that was my point
Nothing really has changed in the way cars are sold in years

Warren

 

[Jhon]

Hemm

 

[YEH]

After this, done with this discussion since it's pretty evident that turned is not grasping what is fairly simple and evident.

If those 110 Lexus dealerships had the same production bottleneck that Genesis is currently experiencing where they were limited to selling 16 vehicles on average, they would have sold only 21k in 1989.

If they were limited to the 3 vehicles/month on average as Genesis dealerships were from a few years ago, they would have sold only 4k.

21k already would be disastrous, 4k, otoh, would be apocalyptic.

Reason why we are seeing Genesis dealerships starting to build standalone facilities now is that the supply level should be markedly improved by 2025 when the new HMG plant starts production.

With the light at the end of the tunnel in sight, they are willing to take losses for the short term, but over 25 Genesis dealerships had already given up their franchise since they decided losing $$ wasn't in their best interest.

Also, at the time when Lexus started out, there was a lot of industry talk about ToyoCo subsidizing Lexus dealerships until sales and service reached significant enough volume.

Auto dealerships actually make more $$ from service/parts and CPO/used car sales and due to the extremely low sales volume per dealership Genesis dealerships weren't making any those things.

Genesis would actually like to see more dealerships give up their franchise (would like to see the # drop down to 250, if not 200), so that the remaining dealerships would be healthier (more volume per dealer).