New Genesis Website

[chris41]

Don't forget Ford & Lincoln. Lincoln's were often just a plusher Ford with more soundproofing, etc...

Anyways, I tell people, "I own a Genesis and the nicest car I've ever owned is unbelievably a Hyundai". If I was truly fixated on branding, I wouldn't have bought the car. What really appeals to me for the time being is having a somewhat rare, very unique car. I just don't see many around my area and that includes G1. I personally don't know anyone who drives a newer MB S class, Audi A8, BMW 750, etc. Most folks drive a BMW 3/5, MB C/E, Audi A4/6. And that's not including the zillions of SUV's and pick up trucks.

Bottom line is nobody is going to think my car is crap. It's just too nice to think otherwise. It simply might not be their cup of tea and that's alright.

 

[Jaeger]

Thanks!!! Exactly my feelings.

Stop whining people.

It will never stop. We live in a culture of entitlement. Whatever we have, we want more, and someone OWES it to us, dammit! Can you believe how "lazy" Hyundai is? LOL! Look at where they were 10 years ago. Most other manufacturers only wish they could be as "lazy" as that. No, they didn't take the predictable path that others did with a luxury stream. But this is a different socioeconomic reality than existed when Lexus pulled its rabbit out of a hat. And a vastly different competitive environment, as well. All the armchair captains of industry who think they have a better idea on what should be done have zero skin in the game. Hyundai has billions. They have been tremendously successful to this point. I suspect that will continue.

 

[Nikgen]

With the Escalade and ES250 (and basically all the other examples), neither GMC nor Toyota dropped the model upon which the re-badged vehicles were based. On top of that, with the ES250, they did much more to distinguish it from the source Camry than Hyundai is doing with the G80. If Hyundai kept the Hyundai Genesis and also had the Genesis G80 (based on the Hyundai Genesis), then we'd have a valid comparison to what others have done. On top of that, we'd have no basis to claim Hyundai is mis-handling this. But that's not what's happening.

Exactly - this weekend I saw/heard a number of TV/Radio spots pushing the 2016 Hyundai Genesis and talking it up as a premium, luxurious vehicle. That sends a really inconsistent message when, at exactly the same time, you are also trying to create a new brand and separate the association of Genesis with Hyundai?

If they at least made cosmetic changes to the G80 (like use KDM front bumper redesign/rear valance and maybe new LED headlights from KDM, if OK for US laws), then there would be more separation. Remember, the 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 is a better equipped vehicle than the 2017 G80 5.0.

To me, just re-badging the completely identical vehicle and calling it something new is not a good way to start the new brand. Time will tell, but their strategy on the G80 launch leaves them open to criticism (and obviously this is all opinion).

 

[Jaeger]

Don't forget Ford & Lincoln. Lincoln's were often just a plusher Ford with more soundproofing, etc...

Anyways, I tell people, "I own a Genesis and the nicest car I've ever owned is unbelievably a Hyundai". If I was truly fixated on branding, I wouldn't have bought the car. What really appeals to me for the time being is having a somewhat rare, very unique car. I just don't see many around my area and that includes G1. I personally don't know anyone who drives a newer MB S class, Audi A8, BMW 750, etc. Most folks drive a BMW 3/5, MB C/E, Audi A4/6. And that's not including the zillions of SUV's and pick up trucks.

Bottom line is nobody is going to think my car is crap. It's just too nice to think otherwise. It simply might not be their cup of tea and that's alright.

Exactly. So many are basically complaining about being left out of the posh new branding. I guess they expected a magical transformation that never happened for them. Oh well.

 

[Nikgen]

It will never stop. We live in a culture of entitlement. Whatever we have, we want more, and someone OWES it to us, dammit! Can you believe how "lazy" Hyundai is? LOL! Look at where they were 10 years ago. Most other manufacturers only wish they could be as "lazy" as that. No, they didn't take the predictable path that others did with a luxury stream. But this is a different socioeconomic reality than existed when Lexus pulled its rabbit out of a hat. And a vastly different competitive environment, as well. All the armchair captains of industry who think they have a better idea on what should be done have zero skin in the game. Hyundai has billions. They have been tremendously successful to this point. I suspect that will continue.

It will not stop - nor should it - as this is a public forum intended for folks to share opinions and discuss things - not try to suppress and ridicule alternate points of view as you do.

In my opinion, Hyundai has done some great things and made amazing progress over the last decade - but launching a new brand with the first vehicle out the door being purely a re-badged Hyundai (that Hyundai is still actively advertising/selling through) is not one of them.

The existence of a slightly restyled KDM G80 shows they could have made some changes to the NA G80 to create some separation if they chose to - they did not. So... yeah... to me, that is taking the easy path/lazy. It is also suspect strategy as it undermines their whole objective of trying to separate Genesis from Hyundai.

KDM G80:

NA G80 (and 2105/2016 Hyundai Genesis):

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I think it was a bad idea for Hyundai to start the Genesis Motors brand with the G80 being the exact same car as the Hyundai Genesis Sedan.

Hyundai knows this.

They don't care.

That's what it all really comes down to. They're looking at the big picture and 5 or 10 years from now there are going to be an astronomical amount of people driving G80s compared to Genesis Sedans. They're going to cater to these new customers more than us.

I guess it's a sad fact but that's just the way things are. They gave us a really amazing sedan for a really amazing price. Heck, I got mine for $37k out the door. To me, that's good enough. I don't expect more.

But that's not to say I feel we should stop sharing our opinions. I'm simply sharing my point of view...

 

[Jaeger]

They're looking at the big picture and 5 or 10 years from now there are going to be an astronomical amount of people driving G80s compared to Genesis Sedans. They're going to cater to these new customers more than us.

....... that's just the way things are. They gave us a really amazing sedan for a really amazing price. Heck, I got mine for $37k out the door. To me, that's good enough. I don't expect more.

I'm with you 110% on these bits.

 

[Mark_888]

In my opinion, Hyundai has done some great things and made amazing progress over the last decade - but launching a new brand with the first vehicle out the door being purely a re-badged Hyundai (that Hyundai is still actively advertising/selling through) is not one of them.

The only other option that was practical to implement (without a lot of advance planning that obviously did not happen) would have been to launch the all new G90, and then wait until the next generation of the G80 before launching it as a Genesis brand.

The problem with that is they would have the current 2017 Hyundai Genesis and also a Genesis G90 that was a different brand, so that makes no sense. The fact they decided to call the new brand "Genesis" is what caused a lot of these issues.

Also, if they had waited on the G80, or made some modest changes to it, I don't think the complainers would have been satisfied.

I think people underestimate the amount of advance planning (and costs incurred) that automakers do with regard to design changes, even relatively minor ones. Those design plans for the 2G Genesis Sedan were probably pretty much in concrete before the final decision was made to launch the Genesis brand.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Hyundai is trying to compete with premium brands with their Genesis Motors products and they can't do that if they're selling cheap cars. So they need to increase the price to earn more profit to have more capability to do the research and development required at that level. Why would people spend more money on the same car if there were no added benefits of some kind?

 

[Nikgen]

I think it was a bad idea for Hyundai to start the Genesis Motors brand with the G80 being the exact same car as the Hyundai Genesis Sedan.

Hyundai knows this.

They don't care.

That's what it all really comes down to. They're looking at the big picture and 5 or 10 years from now there are going to be an astronomical amount of people driving G80s compared to Genesis Sedans. They're going to cater to these new customers more than us.

I guess it's a sad fact but that's just the way things are. They gave us a really amazing sedan for a really amazing price. Heck, I got mine for $37k out the door. To me, that's good enough. I don't expect more.

But that's not to say I feel we should stop sharing our opinions. I'm simply sharing my point of view...

Just to be clear, I don't expect to be catered to as I bought a Hyundai Genesis (well, the first one ). I'm just commenting on what I see as suspect strategy on the G80 intro - they could have done better if they chose to... and it would have avoided some of the issues we see here with existing Genesis owners feeling slighted, while also better supporting the brand separation. A missed opportunity, in my opinion.

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[Nikgen]

The only other option that was practical to implement (without a lot of advance planning that obviously did not happen) would have been to launch the all new G90, and then wait until the next generation of the G80 before launching it as a Genesis brand.

There appears to have been another option as I suggested: they could have launched the G80 with the minor KDM body updates - in fact, economies of scale would seem to suggest it could have been more profitable/efficient to do that.

They did not and we'll never know why - but now they have to deal with the short-term, messy transition of promoting and selling identical cars (2017 G80 and 2015/16 Hyundai Genesis) at hugely different price points to clear Hyundai Genesis inventory. Most folks won't rebadge - so you'll see the H and the wings on what is the same car to most people - not ideal by any stretch and undermines the new brand value somewhat.

 

[markpoisson]

Also, if they had waited on the G80, or made some modest changes to it, I don't think the complainers would have been satisfied.

Complainers? Because we don't agree with your point of view? You have your perspective and not everyone shares it.

While it is true that you have many more years experience than most of us and have also experienced the launch of a new brand while owning a donor vehicle (1992 Toyota Camry XLE V6), many of us also have years of experience. On top of that, we actually own a 2G Genesis, not the 1G. And we are all passionate about the Genesis otherwise we wouldn't bother to even comment.

It seems the ones that are actually complaining are the ones who are amazed this topic is still being discussed. It's being discussed because it is relevant. Am I upset that the 2016 3.8 Ultimate has LED fog lights whereas my 2015 does not? It's annoying but that happens ALL the time.
What Hyundai is doing with the Genesis brand is unique. What amazes me is that some people don't acknowledge that (or can't seem to grasp it).

As for the comment about "armchair captains of industry", does anyone else see the irony in that comment?

 

[Alwaysforward]

... I love it

 

[Jaeger]

The only other option that was practical to implement (without a lot of advance planning that obviously did not happen) would have been to launch the all new G90, and then wait until the next generation of the G80 before launching it as a Genesis brand.

The problem with that is they would have the current 2017 Hyundai Genesis and also a Genesis G90 that was a different brand, so that makes no sense. The fact they decided to call the new brand "Genesis" is what caused a lot of these issues.

Also, if they had waited on the G80, or made some modest changes to it, I don't think the complainers would have been satisfied.

I think people underestimate the amount of advance planning (and costs incurred) that automakers do with regard to design changes, even relatively minor ones. Those design plans for the 2G Genesis Sedan were probably pretty much in concrete before the final decision was made to launch the Genesis brand.

Agreed. But the truth is, whichever path they chose, people would still complain that they should have done something differently. Such is the nature of the internet. The G80 is a solid luxury vehicle. From early reports, so is the G90. Product is what matters most. By far. All the free cappuccino in the world won't compensate for a vehicle that qualitatively falls short of the luxury mark. These vehicles don't fall short, and I would be surprised if the subsequent additions to the Genesis lineup are not only as good, but even better. "Lazy" Hyundai has shown more consistent improvement with each generation of product than just about any other manufacturer I can think of. And if that happens, the Genesis brand will succeed. It won't happen quickly, but I believe it will happen. But of course, that won't stop the complainers.

 

[Mark_888]

Complainers? Because we don't agree with your point of view? You have your perspective and not everyone shares it.

I am not the first to point out that there are complainers on this issue, so why are you picking on me? Just because I and others mention complainers does not mean that every person who disagrees with me is complaining, but some have threatened to never buy another Hyundai again because of this issue.

If you are not one of those complainers, you don't need to include yourself in that group and automatically assume that I am talking about you.

 

[Mark_888]

On top of that, we actually own a 2G Genesis, not the 1G.

How does owning a 2G Genesis give you any more right to comment than me owning a 1G (which only has 55K miles on it, and only adding 2K miles per year these days)? This is one of the fundamental problems with many "arguments" on this topic, that 2G owner think they have some special rights that others don't have, just because Hyundai was not able to make changes to the G80 for the initial Genesis brand launch.

I don't know if my years of experience is a factor, but I have participated in a online chat (with about 20 others) with the former HMA CEO about many of these and similar issues, including the initial decision by HMA to import the Genesis as a Hyundai, even when it was sold as a Genesis BH3.8 or BH4.6 in Korea with no Hyundai badges whatsoever.

My next vehicle is likely to be SUV/CUV, and not a sedan, so I am still mulling various options. Looks like Genesis will not have one for several years.

 

[Nikgen]

...just because Hyundai was not able to make changes to the G80 for the initial Genesis brand launch.

.

The 2017 KDM G80 model demonstrates that Hyundai chose not to make changes to the G80 for the initial Genesis brand launch (in NA)...

 

[Mark_888]

The 2017 KDM G80 model demonstrates that Hyundai chose not to make changes to the G80 for the initial Genesis brand launch (in NA)...

I don't believe that anyone knows enough details about those decisions to say for sure what factors had to be considered.

 

[Nikgen]

I don't believe that anyone knows enough details about those decisions to say for sure what factors had to be considered.

Agreed that we don't have insider info - so you can't say that they were not able to make changes.

 

[Mark_888]

Agreed that we don't have insider info - so you can't say that they were not able to make changes.

1. True, I don't know for sure. But I assume they are not idiots, and would have liked to have made changes, or had a brand new G80 at brand launch like they did for the G90.

2. What is "possible" and what is "feasible" are not always the same thing.

3. Hyundai Motor America does not run Hyundai Motor. Sometimes they have to live with what Korea wants to do. John Krafcik, former HAM CEO found that out when he was let go (he went to TrueCar and is now head of Google's autonomous car effort).