Next Gen 3.5TT engine for the G70

[soundman414]

Interesting bit of info with the recent PR stunt Hyundai Australia did by extensively modifying one of their conversion vans with... you guessed it, a 3.5L Twin Turbo V6.

The article states "Mechanics sent the iMax's 2.5-liter turbodiesel four-cylinder back to the parts bin and replaced it with a 3.5-liter V6 twin-turbocharged engine to make 402 horsepower and 409 pound-feet of torque.". So does that mean the next gen G70 will make over 400hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque? Doesn't seem to crazy.

Anyways, here is a link to the article and video:

2019 Hyundai iMax N drift van unveiled with 402 hp

 

[Toddasaurus]

Hah, that van is so ugly but so awesome. Good catch on the engine. We will see what the official power figures end up being, but I think you're right, 402hp sounds totally reasonable for that engine in the next G70.

 

[joschneider]

do you guys really think they would move up to a larger, heavier engine to hit 400 hp? The G70 is already heavy, and a couple adjustments to the current engine intake, exhaust, etc can hit that 400 number easily without needing that extra displacement (depending if they just stroked it or if its a larger block we would have packaging constraints as well)

 

[soundman414]

do you guys really think they would move up to a larger, heavier engine to hit 400 hp? The G70 is already heavy, and a couple adjustments to the current engine intake, exhaust, etc can hit that 400 number easily without needing that extra displacement (depending if they just stroked it or if its a larger block we would have packaging constraints as well)

Agreed that the G70 is on the heavier side. But the difference in displacement from the current 3.3 to the new 3.5 is tiny and it's not yet known... at least not in general knowledge, maybe there is some patent files, white papers, etc... how the two engines compare. They could have gotten that increase in a number of ways and the engine could be lighter. So until we know more, I guess the only thing that is concrete is the displacement and how they have tuned it for a one-off van. But it is exciting nonetheless.

 

[EdP]

Agreed that the G70 is on the heavier side. But the difference in displacement from the current 3.3 to the new 3.5 is tiny and it's not yet known... at least not in general knowledge, maybe there is some patent files, white papers, etc... how the two engines compare. They could have gotten that increase in a number of ways and the engine could be lighter. So until we know more, I guess the only thing that is concrete is the displacement and how they have tuned it for a one-off van. But it is exciting nonetheless.

It is about 7%. An old adage still holds "there is no substitute for cubic inches" It will be interesting to see the results.

 

[MrMegadeth]

Yeah, but look at the Alfa Giulia. Same sized engine and similar sized cars.

• Alfa (2.0T): 280 HP and 306 lb-ft @ 3521 lbs
• Alfa QV (2.9T): 505 HP and 443 lb-ft @ 3806 lbs
• G70 (2.0T): 252 HP and 260 lb-ft @ 3516 lbs
• G70 (3.3T): 365 HP and 376 lb-ft @ 3774 lbs

The Alfa beats the G70 all around. There is power still to be had at similar engine size and curb weight.

 

[EdP]

Yeah, but look at the Alfa Giulia. Same sized engine and similar sized cars.

• Alfa (2.0T): 280 HP and 306 lb-ft @ 3521 lbs
• Alfa QV (2.9T): 505 HP and 443 lb-ft @ 3806 lbs
• G70 (2.0T): 252 HP and 260 lb-ft @ 3516 lbs
• G70 (3.3T): 365 HP and 376 lb-ft @ 3774 lbs

The Alfa beats the G70 all around. There is power still to be had at similar engine size and curb weight.

And with more cubic inches they could get even more. Other factors come it too. The more you squeeze out of a given size engine you can stress and change the reliability curve. Alpha has half the warranty on their engines.

 

[Toddasaurus]

I think the new 3.5 is still based on the same Lambda architecture, and they just increase the stroke to get the added displacement. I read somewhere that they're calling it The Lambda III engine.

 

[ECF]

Hello. First post to the forums, but I have a couple of theories for you...neither of which may be correct since all we have is speculation

1. It seems that Hyundai/Kia/Genesis are fairly conservative with their engine/power train design, likely in order to reduce claims against the 100K mile Power train warranty. Their mechanical and thermal modeling may show that increasing peak power and torque along with the associated assumed time spent at peak load with the stock 3.3L of displacement would decrease engine life to the point where reliability/durability would be a concern, at least with respect to a theoretical increase in warranty claims.

2. As Todd pointed out the new engine will be the Lamba III designation. The Lamba II (both naturally aspirated and turbocharged) is currently used in a number of other vehicle applications, so to reduce cost and development burden, it is likely easier to increase displacement on the next gen "world engine" which would improve performance across the fleet and add two turbos for the sports cars instead of developing a unique engine just for the G70/Stinger/G80/performance vehicles

 

[KusaKusa]

Kinda off-topic from the current discussion, but in the van video the 3.5TT engine sounds super awesome and much better than the current 3.3TT. The van may just be equipped with a better exhaust system, particularly because it's longer.

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[NLJ]

Is this official from Hyundai/Kia?
They used to have a 3.5L in Australia and then discontinued it.
Somehow I don't see them investing in bigger engines cause the world is going the other way for mainstream vehicles.
I would rather see a small high strung engine like the new Mercedes A45 AMG which has plug-in hybrid capability!

 

[I'm genesis fanboy]

G70 N News

정의선 공들인 ‘제네시스 G70 N’ 스페셜 모델 나온다 It is reported that this G70 N has been working on exterior design since the first half of this year and will compete against Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG and BMW M3. Meanwhile, the Genesis lineup currently consists of three sedans, the G70, G80 and G90. If the SUV...

genesisowners.com

 

[ECF]

@NLJ

I'm not sure which auto journalism sites are the most accurate, but the one below allegedly claims that the G80 was delayed due to development issues with the 2.5L Theta III and 3.5 Lamba III.

2020 Genesis G80 Launch Allegedly Pushed Back Again, Now Set For Early Next Year | Carscoops

In regards to the increased size, given that the bore and stroke of the Lamba II is 92 x 83.8 mm (per wikiapedia), the stroke "only" needs to change to 87.8 mm to give a displacement of 3.5L. The bigger shift would actually be moving from the 2.0L Theta II to the 2.5L Theta III which would represent a 25% increase in displacement.

While I definitely get the trend is to move to smaller displacement, the other question is "smaller than what". If other rumors are true that the 5.0 tau v8 will be replaced, then a turbo charged 3.5L V6 is definitely smaller. Similar reasoning would also hold true if the 3.8 N/A V6 in the G80 will be replaced by a 2.5L turbo.

Another data point for reference is that increasing displacement doesn't HAVE to equate a deficiency in fuel economy. The 2001 Honda S2000 which weighed 2800lbs (ish) had a 2.0L N/A engine which got 20/26, vs a 2001 base Corvette with a 5.7L V8 and a 6speed manual which weighed 3200lbs and got 17/26 (likely due to gearing and possibly cylinder deactivation).

Based on some marketing material I saw somewhere (which may or may no be believable) H/K/G is also wanting to increase thermal efficiency of the next gen engines (as their German counterparts definitely get better MPG per given horsepower) so if the resultant product is more torque-y, powerful, and more fuel efficient while maintaining similar weight and reliability, don't we all win?

I also think a small blown engine similar to the CLA45AMG could be tons of fun...though I have no idea how a bean counter would allow a 100K mile powertrain warranty for it.

 

[Rmsanger]

Yeah, but look at the Alfa Giulia. Same sized engine and similar sized cars.

• Alfa (2.0T): 280 HP and 306 lb-ft @ 3521 lbs
• Alfa QV (2.9T): 505 HP and 443 lb-ft @ 3806 lbs
• G70 (2.0T): 252 HP and 260 lb-ft @ 3516 lbs
• G70 (3.3T): 365 HP and 376 lb-ft @ 3774 lbs

The Alfa beats the G70 all around. There is power still to be had at similar engine size and curb weight.

Just to point out that the 2.9T power-train is a Ferrari derived engine from the V8 in the California. It's a special engine and not just any run of the mill comp. It's fair to say that Alfa couldn't have engineering such an engine on their own. I cannot speak for the 2.0T comparison but the output from Genesis is still favorable to most.

Alfa Romeo Giulia (952) - Wikipedia

The Quadrifoglio is powered by an all-aluminium alloy, twin-turbocharged gasoline direct injection 90° V6 engine, with a single-cylinder displacement of just under half a litre,[9] for a total of 2,891 cc (176.4 cu in; 2.9 L). This engine was developed exclusively for the Quadrifoglio by Ferrari technicians[22] and it is related to Ferrari's own twin-turbocharged F154 CB V8 engine,[9] sharing the California T's bore x stroke of 86.5 mm × 82 mm (3.41 in × 3.23 in).[8] The engine has a maximum power output of 510 PS (375 kW; 503 hp) at 6,500 rpm,[4] and 600 N⋅m (443 lb⋅ft) of torque between 2,500 and 5,000 rpm.[9][27][28] The turbochargers are single-scroll compressor IHI units integrated into the manifold, with water-charge air coolers.[29] It has side mounted direct fuel injection and the peak turbo boost pressure reaches up to 35 psi (2 bar).[30]

 

[sethsquire]

It is about 7%. An old adage still holds "there is no substitute for cubic inches" It will be interesting to see the results.

NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!

 

[MrMegadeth]

Just to point out that the 2.9T power-train is a Ferrari derived engine from the V8 in the California. It's a special engine and not just any run of the mill comp. It's fair to say that Alfa couldn't have engineering such an engine on their own. I cannot speak for the 2.0T comparison but the output from Genesis is still favorable to most.

Alfa Romeo Giulia (952) - Wikipedia

The 2.0 is a Fiat engine. My guess is that the Multi-air system allows for an infinite VVT across all RPM so they can really dial it in.

And sure Alfa could have. Just easier to borrow you brother's....

 

[soundman414]

Update: The addition of port fuel injection, water-cooled intercooler, and lower emissions. This should tune quite well with DI and PI.

Source: Hyundai Upgrading Engines 3.3L to 3.5L Turbo and 3.0 V6 to Inline 6 Diesel - Korean Car Blog

 

[Toddasaurus]

^Good find! I'm jealous of the port injection... Though they're only saying it gets 10ps more, which doesn't seem that significant to me.

 

[Slip_Angle]

Port injection with direct injection stops carbon build up or at least slows it significantly

 

[Husky]

So both port and direct injection? I've never heard of an engine with both - would this be a first? It seems like it would add a lot of cost and complexity, having twice as many injectors, which might need to operate at different pressures, more wiring, etc...