Number of Genesis sold in USA in 2017 and 2018

[turnne]

That is true. They are a Korean company. While many here are complaining that they are not giving us what we want, they are centered around their own market first. We are second or third in line.

If they are selling well in the home market and we are getting the overflow, they may be very happy with sales and production ability.

I seriously doubt they are happy with the sales results in the United States

The current stats since the brand was introduced in 2017
Sales trending downward month after month ,extremely heavy percentage of discounting , year old cars sitting at dealerships, year old used cars that have dropped drastically in value

Then the fact that the sales potential and actual sales of luxury cars in the United States is by far the largest in the world

But..ok...to your point they could be happy with these results in the United States

They certainly wont get an independent businessman dealer to build( and borrow money) a free standing dealership with the current statistics

Unless ofcourse Hyundai bankrolls all the Genesis dealers and covers the costs....I will anxiously await that happening

Warren

 

[YEH]

They could have rebadged something

But again….not sure any of this matters if they don't have something that US buyers want to buy

The Korean market has zero to do with buyers in the United States

Geeze, this is like having a redux with Mark...

First off, Genesis has no interest in hurriedly rebadging something, just to have something to offer (doesn't mean that it would sell).

Doing so would only damage the brand (better to not do something half-arsed).

Genesis has no intentions of competing w/ the NX, RX, MDX, RDX, MKC, MKX, XT5, etc. - for the value shoppers in the luxury CUV segment.

W/ the new Santa Fe going more upscale, the SX-L trim of the Sorento and the upcoming Palisade and Telluride CUVs from H/K (which will be more luxurious than the Santa Fe and Sorento), there isn't much room for a Genesis version.

And as stated before, if Genesis had gone ahead w/ a rebadged version of the old Santa Fe Sport, it runs into the same problem that Lexus and Acura (and nowadays Infiniti) have run into - the mainstream brand getting the newer platform and/or powertrains first (such as the Civic in comparison to the ILX or the Camry in comparison to the ES).

So a Genesis version of the old Santa Fe Sport would be bettered in many ways by the new Santa Fe.

For something who talks so much about luxury and brand cachet, one would think you would have considered such variables.

By eschewing the cheaper FWD route for its CUVs, don't be surprised if going forward, Genesis is more oft to be compared to BMW and MB than any of the Japanese.

And again, no one is saying that the Korean market has anything to do w/ the US one.

The Equus was developed for the Korean market. Originally, there was no intention of bringing it over to the US.

But after the (relative) success of the Genesis sedan, Hyundai thought - heck, why not showcase the Equus at various dealerships and gauge the interest and if there is enough, ready it for import.

Again, when the Genesis brand was launched in 2016, the 1st 2 models to get greenlit were the GV80 and GV70 CUVs.

You do realize that there is ample inventory of 2017 G80's still sitting on dealers lots right?...and that they are actually selling at numbers fewer than the Hyundai Genesis was

According to Autotrader there are 322 new '17MY G80s on the lots.

There are 378 new '17MY of the E Class and 147 of the S Class on the lots.

Also have to keep in mind that due to the G80 being sold at every Hyundai dealership (of which there are around 900), so only about 1/3rd have a '17MY G80 on the lot (or the equivalent of it).

Can't say that about MB dealerships and the E Class.

Given that Hyundai (not including their 33% ownership of Kia) sold 4.5 million vehicles in 2017, and their sales target was 5.08 million, I would not agree that they are content on just serving their domestic market. They are striving to be a worldwide automaker.

No one is saying that they are content on just serving their domestic market, but having/building a strong basis in their domestic market is key.

Look at all the damage the Beijing-led boycott on Korean products did to H/K sales in China.

And Drumpf has been talking up placing a 25% import tariff on German autos, if not outright banning them.

Genesis sales are a drop in the bucket of worldwide Hyundai sales. In USA alone, Genesis is about 3% of total Hyundai USA sales in 2017, and Genesis worldwide is a much lower percentage than that of Hyundai worldwide sales of about 4.5 million units.

Worldwide, Genesis is lower b/c it's only currently available in a few markets; Genesis in Korea makes up a considerably higher % of Hyundai sales than in the US, so right now, plays a more important role in how Hyundai fares there.

 

[YEH]

As to what Fitzgerald says, well-run companies don't let junior executives determine their own performance success. What do you expect him to day to the media? "We are doing a terrible job" or "sales of the Genesis in the USA is much lower than expected"? Corporations don't display their dirty laundry in public.

JdN didn't focus so much on sales as he did correcting Cadillac's long list of past mistakes.

Unfortunately for him, RenCen didn't want to take the long-view in how to build/resurrect a luxury brand (since JdN's departure, Cadillac has gone back to some of its old, bad habits).

The current stats since the brand was introduced in 2017
Sales trending downward month after month ,extremely heavy percentage of discounting , year old cars sitting at dealerships, year old used cars that have dropped drastically in value

Then the fact that the sales potential and actual sales of luxury cars in the United States is by far the largest in the world

But..ok...to your point they could be happy with these results in the United States

5 Series - up 34% YTD
7er - down 24%

E Class/CLS - same
S Class - up 19%

A6 - down 25%
A8 - down 53%

Genesis YTD - down 17%

Aside from MB, it's a mixed bag or worse (for Audi).

Being down 17% for the year isn't bad considering that right now, Genesis only has sedans in a CUV/SUV driven market and the G80 will be replaced in about a year.

Jag is down 31% YTD and that's even w/ a CUV.

 

[turnne]

Geeze, this is like having a redux with Mark...

First off, Genesis has no interest in hurriedly rebadging something, just to have something to offer (doesn't mean that it would sell).

Doing so would only damage the brand (better to not do something half-arsed).

Genesis has no intentions of competing w/ the NX, RX, MDX, RDX, MKC, MKX, XT5, etc. - for the value shoppers in the luxury CUV segment.

"Geeze"
So this means Hyundai has minimal interest in perhaps offering the vehicles that United States buyers might buy from them?

Because really... these Genesis sedans sales have been trending downward month after month with heavy discounting and fast falling resale.

Sounds like a great plan to me....

According to Autotrader there are 322 new '17MY G80s on the lots.

There are 378 new '17MY of the E Class and 147 of the S Class on the lots.

Also have to keep in mind that due to the G80 being sold at every Hyundai dealership (of which there are around 900), so only about 1/3rd have a '17MY G80 on the lot (or the equivalent of it).

Can't say that about MB dealerships and the E Class.

LOL...and I am not even going to bother to check the inventory data

because you missed a crucial stats
They are selling 800 G80's a month..compared to 4000 E classes a month and 1250 S classes per month

I don't think the market thinks a G80 is in the same class as an E class...much less an S class
AND we are talking about cars that are WAY more expensive to purchase than a G80...but yet outselling it handily

At 800 cars a month in sales that is a LOT of inventory of unsold 2017 G80's( 380) as a percentage of sales...and as you know The G80's and G90's are being HEAVILLY discounted as a percentage of their sticker prices

I will even make another speculation..similar to the ones I made two years ago that have come true..

I think the long on tooth 2017 Lexus LS460..with a body style that had been around for 8 years and behind on technology etc and the market knowing there was a new design coming at any time will outsell the newly introduced G90....Lexus LS2017 sales versus G90 2018 sales

Warren

 

[turnne]

JdN didn't focus so much on sales as he did correcting Cadillac's long list of past mistakes.

Unfortunately for him, RenCen didn't want to take the long-view in how to build/resurrect a luxury brand (since JdN's departure, Cadillac has gone back to some of its old, bad habits).




5 Series - up 34% YTD
7er - down 24%

E Class/CLS - same
S Class - up 19%

A6 - down 25%
A8 - down 53%

Genesis YTD - down 17%

Aside from MB, it's a mixed bag or worse (for Audi).

Being down 17% for the year isn't bad considering that right now, Genesis only has sedans in a CUV/SUV driven market and the G80 will be replaced in about a year.

Jag is down 31% YTD and that's even w/ a CUV.

hmmm

what you should do is consider cars in the same price range as the G80 and G90 for sales stats

For instance look at Mercedes C class and BMW 3/4 series
5000 a month for the C class and 6200 a month for BMW 3/4 series

800 a month for the G80...and almost 400 2017 sitting on lots. That is a huge percentage for a car selling in those numbers

The other thing you don't seem to be adding is all the variants of the BMW and Mercedes and Audi etc....A7, CLS, 6 series etc etc
These buyers would likely be buying other cars in the same price range of the brand if these more "specialty" cars were not available

You also are not mentioning the total volume of sales vs the others
Hopefully Hyundai realizes...unless they follow Toyota's( Lexus) historical plan for dealership subsidy....there is no way they will have a free standing retail dealership with a small number of sales with heavy discounting and left over year old cars on dealers lots

Warren

 

[encantotom]

ok, i am going to add a few thoughts that are not as much data driven but emotion driven. adding in that i just bought a almost new used g90 yesterday. ultimate awd. i test drove a 3 year old lease return s550 before i drove a g90. i loved the s550 and it fit the "always wanted a mercedes" category. btw, my wife didnt like it for some reason she couldnt explain. the massaging seats were awesome.

that 3 year old s550 was considerably more than i paid for the g90. and had quite a few miles on it. felt and looked like new though. gee, i always wanted an s class mercedes.....

and i wanted a full size luxury car. not these compact ones that are all over now. i did look at the continental.....way overpriced....i am a retired engineer and very analytic. a real curse at times...

then i ran across a 2016 equus ultimate that we looked at. i fell in love. btw, i keep cars along time and one of the cars i have now is a 2009 sonata limited with nearly 140k miles i bought new for my kids to go to college with... the only thing that bugged me about the equus was it was the last model year for the car. yea i know it is very similar to the g90, but not totally. so i kept looking. and like the g90 not that many around. and i wanted the ultimate that was NOT black exterior....i live in az...ha

i care about quality, comfort, driveability, not how many of them are in the parking lot at tractor supply when i go there....ha i live in the country. yea you are right, i have not seen hardly any g90's where i live and i go into phoenix metro area alot. so what. i also have a Newell coach for a motorhome and they only make about 30 a year of them and i seldom see any of them when i am out and about. so what....it drives nice, rides nice and is super high quality. and it is 16 years old.

yea, part of me still wanted the mercedes to say i have one, but i wear bib overalls most of the time and just care about what i like. now, is the dealer situation a mess.....yes. is the car really complex and will i get an extended warranty of some type....yea. do i love driving and riding in the car......YESSSS. btw i had my bibs on when we went and picked the car up yesterday at the dealer. it was at a cadillac dealer. there wasnt anyone else at the cadillac dealer in bibs either....so what.

so i have a car i love that evidently doesnt sell extremely well, that there isnt very many of, i wear bib overalls sometimes when i drive it which hardly anyone else does, there isnt any of them in the parking lot of any store in the small town we frequently go to and i have a motorhome most of you have not heard of and have probably never seen. i guess i am the ideal genesis g90 customer. i only care about what i like and quality and comfort.

now i hope genesis doesnt as a brand implode......and i dont think it will. hyundai certainly will not. i have been to korea a number of times and hyundai is absolutely in every industry there.

that is my take and my two cents worth and i am stickin to it now to try and figure out all the features in this car.....

tom

 

[Mark_888]

ok, i am going to add a few thoughts that are not as much data driven but emotion driven. adding in that i just bought a almost new used g90 yesterday. ultimate awd. i test drove a 3 year old lease return s550 before i drove a g90. i loved the s550 and it fit the "always wanted a mercedes" category. btw, my wife didnt like it for some reason she couldnt explain. the massaging seats were awesome.

now i hope genesis doesnt as a brand implode......and i dont think it will. hyundai certainly will not. i have been to korea a number of times and hyundai is absolutely in every industry there.

I assume that before agreeing to pass on the S Class, you got your wife to agree to give you massages?

The Hyundai conglomerate broke up into multiple companies some years ago, even though they still have the Hyundai name. Hyundai Motor is primarily in the auto business (Hyundai automobiles and 33% of Kia, and MOBIS auto parts), and also steel. The rest of the stuff (ship building, semiconductors, etc) is in other companies now, that still use Hyundai as part of their name.

Genesis Motors America is a division of Hyundai Motor America, so I would not worry about what happens to the brand, especially if you keeping the car 10 years or more.

 

[turnne]

ok, i am going to add a few thoughts that are not as much data driven but emotion driven. adding in that i just bought a almost new used g90 yesterday. ultimate awd. i test drove a 3 year old lease return s550 before i drove a g90. i loved the s550 and it fit the "always wanted a mercedes" category. btw, my wife didnt like it for some reason she couldnt explain. the massaging seats were awesome.

that 3 year old s550 was considerably more than i paid for the g90. and had quite a few miles on it. felt and looked like new though. gee, i always wanted an s class mercedes.....

and i wanted a full size luxury car. not these compact ones that are all over now. i did look at the continental.....way overpriced....i am a retired engineer and very analytic. a real curse at times...

then i ran across a 2016 equus ultimate that we looked at. i fell in love. btw, i keep cars along time and one of the cars i have now is a 2009 sonata limited with nearly 140k miles i bought new for my kids to go to college with... the only thing that bugged me about the equus was it was the last model year for the car. yea i know it is very similar to the g90, but not totally. so i kept looking. and like the g90 not that many around. and i wanted the ultimate that was NOT black exterior....i live in az...ha

i care about quality, comfort, driveability, not how many of them are in the parking lot at tractor supply when i go there....ha i live in the country. yea you are right, i have not seen hardly any g90's where i live and i go into phoenix metro area alot. so what. i also have a Newell coach for a motorhome and they only make about 30 a year of them and i seldom see any of them when i am out and about. so what....it drives nice, rides nice and is super high quality. and it is 16 years old.

yea, part of me still wanted the mercedes to say i have one, but i wear bib overalls most of the time and just care about what i like. now, is the dealer situation a mess.....yes. is the car really complex and will i get an extended warranty of some type....yea. do i love driving and riding in the car......YESSSS. btw i had my bibs on when we went and picked the car up yesterday at the dealer. it was at a cadillac dealer. there wasnt anyone else at the cadillac dealer in bibs either....so what.

so i have a car i love that evidently doesnt sell extremely well, that there isnt very many of, i wear bib overalls sometimes when i drive it which hardly anyone else does, there isnt any of them in the parking lot of any store in the small town we frequently go to and i have a motorhome most of you have not heard of and have probably never seen. i guess i am the ideal genesis g90 customer. i only care about what i like and quality and comfort.

now i hope genesis doesnt as a brand implode......and i dont think it will. hyundai certainly will not. i have been to korea a number of times and hyundai is absolutely in every industry there.

that is my take and my two cents worth and i am stickin to it now to try and figure out all the features in this car.....

tom

Which also means that...you didn't care for or could live without....assuming the Mercedes S550 you were looking at was a 2015

1. The better finish of the Mercedes S550
2. The better feature set
3. The better option availability
4. The better customization options
5. The higher level of technology the Mercedes S550 has



In other words..the G90 was "good enough" or met your expectations...which is fine

I think many people...to the tune of 3500 a month or so..think the Lexus ES350 is good enough and meets their expectations

BUT..there are many people that are able and willing to buy what they want and for those type of people there is the Mercedes S class

This is the very reason why I say the G90 is not in the class of cars like the Mercedes S class etc
Those cars are not in the idea of "good enough"
Rather they want to cater to everything their buyer could want and even some things they didn't realize they wanted...but perhaps now cant live without


To your point about the used G90 being so much cheaper than the S class
I always said the G90 was going to be a very good used car value

I look today and BMW 335 of the same year and mileage is worth more than my Equus...and was a less expensive car to buy brand new

There is no doubt in my mind the G90 will follow the same value trajectory...as I have said many times before


Warren

 

[encantotom]

my last comments on this. i am not a debater. i gave my comments which i prefaced were based on emotion. i love my g90. it is worth what i paid for it. yes it will plummet in value, but i dont care because i am keeping it along time. do i think the s550 is significantly a better car....i dunno. i do know my wife liked the g90 better. and i like it too.

i will be riding in style to tractor supply next time i need new bib overalls or some bolts and nuts. who knows, i may see a mercedes there. but i will for sure see pickup trucks that cost nearly 100k.

this forum is great. i have gleaned a ton of info from it before i bought my genesis. although the entire extended warranty thing is still hard to muddle through.

i try to look at life through a lense that makes life fun. life is too short not to. but my f350 isnt short. it is lifted enough i am just putting electric drop down steps on it so people can get in it without a running start and jump up.

happy friday

tom

 

[Mark_888]

Which also means that...you didn't care for or could live without....assuming the Mercedes S550 you were looking at was a 2015

1. The better finish of the Mercedes S550
2. The better feature set
3. The better option availability
4. The better customization options
5. The higher level of technology the Mercedes S550 has

3. & 4. He was looking at a used S-class. The feature set and customization options were fixed.

I am not going to comment on the other items, even though I don't agree they were relevant, especially for someone who keeps cars a long time, well past the warranty period.

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[turnne]

3. & 4. He was looking at a used S-class. The feature set and customization options were fixed.

I am not going to comment on the other items, even though I don't agree they were relevant, especially for someone who keeps cars a long time, well past the warranty period.

Any 2015( 3 years old) Mercedes S class is going to have standard and optional equipment that can't be had for any price on a new 2018 G90

Why would the others not be relevant for someone that keeps their cars a long time?
He could have just bought a Camry..if the other items don't matter


Warren

 

[Windchaser]

Any 2015( 3 years old) Mercedes S class is going to have standard and optional equipment that can't be had for any price on a new 2018 G90

Why would the others not be relevant for someone that keeps their cars a long time?
He could have just bought a Camry..if the other items don't matter


Warren

So why are you driving an Equus? It's obvious from your posts that you believe Mercedes are far superior cars in just about every measure. Several times now you have essentially told people who have chosen a G90 over a S Class that they essentially gave in and sacrificed everything a Mercedes when they chose a G90, even we they stated that they had compared it to the Mercedes and found things they thought were better on the G90.

 

[turnne]

So why are you driving an Equus? It's obvious from your posts that you believe Mercedes are far superior cars in just about every measure. Several times now you have essentially told people who have chosen a G90 over a S Class that they essentially gave in and sacrificed everything a Mercedes when they chose a G90, even we they stated that they had compared it to the Mercedes and found things they thought were better on the G90.

Just like has been said many times.....price

I have the right expectations for the money



I have consistently said that these cars are an incredible value as used cars.....frankly they can be beat for a 3 year old car off a lease

Warren

 

[rroyce46]

I bought my 2016 Hyundai Genesis Luxury AWD with 10900 Kilometers used in January 2018 from a Hyundai Dealer retail here in Calgary.Saved 40% off 2016 new Genesis price. Other than a few body squeaks it's a wonderful car & I have no regrets buying it.
I retired 7 years ago Salesman/Sales Manager for Mercedes-Benz & other German cars ( Porsche/Audi & VW) since 1980.
I still have 2 Mercs I love -92 500SL & a 92 400E when they were " Engineered like no other car in zee Vorld". I also have a 1958 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud & a 79 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce too. All great fun collectable toys.

The elephant in this room is that the reliability of MB is not what it used to be.
I keep in touch with the MB dealer I retired from regularly.They have issues than members of this Forum should be glad are not in our cars.
I could say that German cars in general are not as reliable or as inexpensive to maintain as Asian cars.
The fun to drive or sportiness is not as good in Asian cars as German cars but as I am now retired @ 72 reliability & maintenance costs are more important to me than roaring around corners.

The Badge on the front is of little consequence( who do I have to impress @ 72 ?) & I kind of enjoy the exclusivity of not seeing that many Genesis's on the road .

Just my 2.6 ( 2 U.S. cents) Canadian cents worth.

 

[Mcc]

In other words..the G90 was "good enough" or met your expectations...which is fine

I think many people...to the tune of 3500 a month or so..think the Lexus ES350 is good enough and meets their expectations

BUT..there are many people that are able and willing to buy what they want and for those type of people there is the Mercedes S class

You are trying to frame your argument as a good enough distinction. I don’t think that the case. Exactly how do you decide what is in the Mercedes S class? Is there a clear cut dividing line between classes in you mind? I am not saying better or worse, just in the same class.
While I think for Mercedes you are paying more for less, it’s not about price.

Finally if the G90 is not in the same class as the Mercedes why are there so many articles directly comparing them?

 

[turnne]

I bought my 2016 Hyundai Genesis Luxury AWD with 10900 Kilometers used in January 2018 from a Hyundai Dealer retail here in Calgary.Saved 40% off 2016 new Genesis price. Other than a few body squeaks it's a wonderful car & I have no regrets buying it.
I retired 7 years ago Salesman/Sales Manager for Mercedes-Benz & other German cars ( Porsche/Audi & VW) since 1980.
I still have 2 Mercs I love -92 500SL & a 92 400E when they were " Engineered like no other car in zee Vorld". I also have a 1958 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud & a 79 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce too. All great fun collectable toys.

The elephant in this room is that the reliability of MB is not what it used to be.
I keep in touch with the MB dealer I retired from regularly.They have issues than members of this Forum should be glad are not in our cars.
I could say that German cars in general are not as reliable or as inexpensive to maintain as Asian cars.
The fun to drive or sportiness is not as good in Asian cars as German cars but as I am now retired @ 72 reliability & maintenance costs are more important to me than roaring around corners.

The Badge on the front is of little consequence( who do I have to impress @ 72 ?) & I kind of enjoy the exclusivity of not seeing that many Genesis's on the road .

Just my 2.6 ( 2 U.S. cents) Canadian cents worth.

I don't disagree about the reliability

However...it seems that the market ...at least the 100K buyers want cutting edge technology and firsts

Warren

 

[turnne]

You are trying to frame your argument as a good enough distinction. I don’t think that the case. Exactly how do you decide what is in the Mercedes S class? Is there a clear cut dividing line between classes in you mind? I am not saying better or worse, just in the same class.
While I think for Mercedes you are paying more for less, it’s not about price.

Finally if the G90 is not in the same class as the Mercedes why are there so many articles directly comparing them?

Those same articles compared the Equus in that arena as well...keep that in mind
And the articles I read where the G90 is compared to the " big boys" reads just like it did when the Equus was available...it always mentions concessions and the car being a good value

I guess I would suggest that the market chooses what class a car is in..and the manufacturers frame and create their entrants accordingly

I am not sure what you mean when you say "Exactly how do you decide what is in a Mercedes S class"...
If you mean options, feature set, customization and finishes...hmm

I guess the market decides..and then the manufacturers follow suit

if you look closely...the Audi A8, BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class all have very similar feature sets and options...they also have their options/ and features that are unique to the cars themselves
I assume this means that their typical buyer is looking for a unique elements of technology
Each of them also has pretty intricate interior finishes as well as additional leather, wood and trim options that are even more finely finished....this includes wheel and even some custom exterior and interior colors

I guess the typical buyer of one of these cars cares about uniqueness? and can afford to pay for it

Also I don't think any top of the line item is a good value....cars, TV's...watches, furniture....etc etc

But people still buy them

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

Any 2015( 3 years old) Mercedes S class is going to have standard and optional equipment that can't be had for any price on a new 2018 G90

How do you know what optional equipment was on the 2015 S-Class he was lookin at?

How do you know what options he was interested in? The only one he mentioned was the massaging seats.

 

[turnne]

How do you know what optional equipment was on the 2015 S-Class he was lookin at?

How do you know what options he was interested in? The only one he mentioned was the massaging seats.

I don't know the particular optional equipment that was on the car he was looking at...hence the reason I used the words I did

Also..there are some STANDARD features on a 2015 S class that are not available on a 2018 G90

I honestly used that think that it was common knowledge what was standard and available on most vehicles in these forums
But time and time again I am shown it is not

I recall someone making a point about the self closing doors on the G90 in this forum
That was standard on an S class 26 years ago....

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

I don't know the particular optional equipment that was on the car he was looking at...hence the reason I used the words I did

Also..there are some STANDARD features on a 2015 S class that are not available on a 2018 G90

I honestly used that think that it was common knowledge what was standard and available on most vehicles in these forums
But time and time again I am shown it is not

I recall someone making a point about the self closing doors on the G90 in this forum
That was standard on an S class 26 years ago....

Warren

What good are all those features if someone doesn't care about them? Each person has to decide for themselves what features they want or need, and not just assume that because they are available that they are needed or wanted.

Self closing doors are a harbinger of the decline of Western Civilization, or a sign of a poorly built car that has doors that don't close easily (take you pick).