Number of Genesis sold in USA in 2017 and 2018

[turnne]

I don't think any REAL buyers of these cars even care

Mercedes ,BMW and Lexus buyers are not coming into these showrooms...in my opinion

So..frankly..they could have sold the G90 as a Hyundai and continued to sell the G80 as a Hyundai and cut the price more

Those interested in these cars don't care about walking into a Hyundai dealership and having the same experience as the other cars in the showroom

Warren

 

[Mcc]

I still say it is
whats the point considering what else is going on?...and I don't think a REAL Genesis buyer even cares
Warren

You keep repeating REAL (in bold) Genesis buyer like you actually know what that means. So please enlighten us, how do you distinguish a REAL Genesis buyer from an UNREAL or FAKE Genesis buyer? Do we have some fake buyers here on this site? I would like to know if I am a fake or maybe you are.

 

[turnne]

You keep repeating REAL (in bold) Genesis buyer like you actually know what that means. So please enlighten us, how do you distinguish a REAL Genesis buyer from an UNREAL or FAKE Genesis buyer? Do we have some fake buyers here on this site? I would like to know if I am a fake or maybe you are.

I expanded on that in another post

Let me resate

Anyone that is likely going to buy one one of the cars doesn't care if they were just walking into a Hyundai dealership

Bonus points if the cars were less $$ since they were Hyundai's sans the Genesis badge

Meaning...I don't think the average Mercedes, Lexus, BMW etc buyer is even looking at these cars anyway

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

Meaning...I don't think the average Mercedes, Lexus, BMW etc buyer is even looking at these cars anyway

So if someone was also considering a Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW, in addition to the G90, they are not a REAL G90 buyer? Do they not own the G90 if they paid for it? Whose name is listed on the title when that happens?

 

[turnne]

So if someone was also considering a Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW, in addition to the G90, they are not a REAL G90 buyer? Do they not own the G90 if they paid for it? Whose name is listed on the title when that happens?

It seems you are having a hard time understanding what I posted

I don't think a real Genesis buyer cares if the car is a Hyundai bought at a Hyundai dealership... with bonus points if it costs less because it has a Hyundai badge

I don't think the average BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers are looking at the Genesis anyway

Keep in mind this is my opinion based on the sales results from the last two years

We can look at sales results numbers at the end of the year in the United States

If they keep trending the way they are now I think we can assume one of two things

1. The BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers didn't even come in the Genesis( Hyundai ) dealership
2. They did...but they still didn't choose to buy and preferred the other brands

Warren

 

[Mcc]

I expanded on that in another post

Let me resate

Anyone that is likely going to buy one one of the cars doesn't care if they were just walking into a Hyundai dealership

Bonus points if the cars were less $$ since they were Hyundai's sans the Genesis badge

Meaning...I don't think the average Mercedes, Lexus, BMW etc buyer is even looking at these cars anyway

Warren

I think your concept of a REAL Genesis owner is solely in you own mind and a product ow your own misconceptions. I’ll let other voice their own opinions.

 

[Mark_888]

It seems you are having a hard time understanding what I posted

I haven't understood anything you have posted since you joined this forum. Nothing.

By reading this form, I have come to believe that there are two alternate universes. The real one what most people live in, and the other two alternate universes that you and YEH live in.

 

[YEH]

^ You stating that is pretty hilarious considering that you and turnne have a lot more in common.

Otoh, he and I are pretty much polar opposities.

 

[YEH]

I don't think any REAL buyers of these cars even care

Mercedes ,BMW and Lexus buyers are not coming into these showrooms...in my opinion

So..frankly..they could have sold the G90 as a Hyundai and continued to sell the G80 as a Hyundai and cut the price more

Those interested in these cars don't care about walking into a Hyundai dealership and having the same experience as the other cars in the showroom

Warren

Putting aside the # of poster here who formerly owned a BMW, etc. before getting their Genesis or own a Genesis and BMW or Lexus (wife's car or even their own 2nd car), think it's pretty telling that 2 mods for the largest Lexus forum now own a G90 and a (Kia) Stinger.

Even more telling is that nearly 40% of posters on the Lexus forum don't anticipate buying another Lexus based on what they are seeing coming out of Lexus - predominantly based on an over-reliance of FWD-based models and the lack of competitive powertrains for the RWD models (esp. the IS and GS).

(This is where Genesis, going w/ RWD-based CUVs, can make inroads w/ these types of buyers.)

Among the most active threads have been ones about the G90 and Stinger w/ the majority of posters saying that would consider the Korean model if they were in the market for that type of vehicle.

And let's not forget Sal - who drove an LS460 and before that, various other lux brands before he got his G80 (guess he's not a real buyer).

The obvious big difference is the difference in financial investment at the onset

I said two years ago they would not have a free standing dealership by this time...and they wont until they have some products that sell in the thousands of units per month

2 years ago, they hadn't decided who would be awarded Genesis franchises; they still haven't completed that process.

From a business standpoint
I don't see how an independent business can sink finances in a luxury car dealer ship...with its inherent higher overhead...based on the current sales they have and they heavy discounting they are doing to move the small amount of cars that are selling

Now..unless Hyundai will float them all the investment money ofcourse...

Warren

These dealer-groups (who know a lot more about what entails running a successful auto dealership) have been fighting Hyundai corporate tooth and nail over getting an opportunity to get a Genesis franchise.

In the prior plan, most would have been locked out of the process due to only having a planned 100 dealerships (w/ some being reserved for new dealer-groups who don't carry a Hyundai store).

Dealer-groups were willing to forgo as much as $4 million in compensation for the right to invest millions more for a Genesis franchise.

The delay has only hurt G70 sales.

But once the situation has been settled re who gets a Genesis franchise, those dealerships will be able to sell the G70 while they start the process of building out a separate Genesis store.

That should take about 12-16 months - so most Genesis dealerships should be up and running by late next year.

Would only be about half a year or so operating w/ a 3 model lineup as 2 Genesis CUVs are slated for launch in 2020.

 

[YEH]

LOL...and no one is buying a base 7 series...just like the S class there is myriad of options and the typical car rolls out with $20K( or more) of options

Didn't say people were buying a base 7 series (not so much the case for the 3er), but not everyone is buying a top trim model either.

The majority of buyers are in the middle.

Do you know luxury cars in the United States?

Know more about them than you do.

And you are right the rebadged and old Lexus ES350 may be discounted further as they roll out the new body style later this year
At about the same transaction price as the G80...which is being heavily discounted....Lexus is selling 3500 a month of the ES which is a rebadge old platform car

Again, not at the same transaction price.

Not only does the ES not offer features/amenities that the G80 offers, the ES does not offer higher powertrain options like the G80.

Heck, the Kia Stinger likely has a higher ATP than the ES - due to a high % of buyers opting for the GT trim w/ the TTV6.

You can keep trying to say the G80 is a higher market segment...but in the United States people valuate cars by type, feature set, finish and price....so that puts the G80 smack dab in that mix of cars I listed

In that case, the LS does not compete w/ the Germans and for that matter, the A8 and 7 Series don't really compete w/ the S Class.

You mention the Mercedes C class but left out some information.... Mercedes turned around and sold more C classes in 2017 than they did in 2015...not sure why you go back to one specific year but yet skip other years when the numbers changed?

Are you really this daft?

Aside from being incapable of getting your facts correct.

in 2017, MB sold 77,446 of the C Class...

which is LESS than what they sold in 2015 (86,080).

C Class sales for 2016 and 2017 were virtually unchanged (if not counting more body-styles trims being available), but nevertheless, sales have been down from that 2015 W205 launch sales height, w/ this year being on track for significantly lower sales.

2015 - 86k
2016 - 77k
2017 - 77k
2018 - 57k (based on sales pace YTD)

Sure looks like C Class sales are declining...

The market is not shrinking ..there are just winners and losers that gain or lose market share

MB and BMW gaining marketshare does not mean that the market for sedans/coupes isn't shrinking.

It's doing both - duh!

No..SUV's sales are increasing

This is how delusional you are when this is ypur response to my post where I had stated this...

See above; plus it's no question that light trucks have increased their marketshare at the expense of sedans/cars whether that be for the mainstream or lux market.

My statement means that SUV/CUVs sales are increasing, so what the heck are you trying to argue, aside from you just being a stubborn contrarian?

But luxury sedans are still selling in the United States...the sales are flat but they are not shrinking

Luxury sedan sales are not flat, they are shrinking.

Some brand/models are doing better than others in limiting the slide.

The surplus of luxury coupes and sedans returning after leases poses obvious challenges to the used-car market. Significantly more passenger cars were leased a few years ago than there's appetite for now -- SUVs and crossovers have surged to 56 percent of luxury sales this year through September, compared with just 42 percent three years ago, according to car-shopping website Edmunds.

SUV demand is killing off-lease luxury sedans

And the swing to light trucks has only gotten worse this year.

As the article noted, lux dealerships are swamped w/ off-lease sedans, on top of declining new sedan sales.

Again...doesn't matter to a luxury car buyer in the United States

How many times does it need to be stated that no one is saying it does?

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Mark_888]

 

[turnne]

I haven't understood anything you have posted since you joined this forum. Nothing.

By reading this form, I have come to believe that there are two alternate universes. The real one what most people live in, and the other two alternate universes that you and YEH live in.

I hear ya

A perfect example would be your stance on the number of customers ordering customized Mercedes benz….LOL


Warren

 

[turnne]

Putting aside the # of poster here who formerly owned a BMW, etc. before getting their Genesis or own a Genesis and BMW or Lexus (wife's car or even their own 2nd car), think it's pretty telling that 2 mods for the largest Lexus forum now own a G90 and a (Kia) Stinger.

Even more telling is that nearly 40% of posters on the Lexus forum don't anticipate buying another Lexus based on what they are seeing coming out of Lexus - predominantly based on an over-reliance of FWD-based models and the lack of competitive powertrains for the RWD models (esp. the IS and GS).

(This is where Genesis, going w/ RWD-based CUVs, can make inroads w/ these types of buyers.)

Among the most active threads have been ones about the G90 and Stinger w/ the majority of posters saying that would consider the Korean model if they were in the market for that type of vehicle.

And let's not forget Sal - who drove an LS460 and before that, various other lux brands before he got his G80 (guess he's not a real buyer).




2 years ago, they hadn't decided who would be awarded Genesis franchises; they still haven't completed that process.




These dealer-groups (who know a lot more about what entails running a successful auto dealership) have been fighting Hyundai corporate tooth and nail over getting an opportunity to get a Genesis franchise.

In the prior plan, most would have been locked out of the process due to only having a planned 100 dealerships (w/ some being reserved for new dealer-groups who don't carry a Hyundai store).

Dealer-groups were willing to forgo as much as $4 million in compensation for the right to invest millions more for a Genesis franchise.

The delay has only hurt G70 sales.

But once the situation has been settled re who gets a Genesis franchise, those dealerships will be able to sell the G70 while they start the process of building out a separate Genesis store.

That should take about 12-16 months - so most Genesis dealerships should be up and running by late next year.

Would only be about half a year or so operating w/ a 3 model lineup as 2 Genesis CUVs are slated for launch in 2020.

ahh...love the way you pick out one example versus an over all United States market

I formerly owned BMW and Mercedez benz ( but never Lexus) vehicles and I don't fit the example you just gave
Not unpacking all this

Let just wait for the sales numbers to roll in vs other sedan in the same transaction category and discuss actual results

Warren

 

[turnne]

Didn't say people were buying a base 7 series (not so much the case for the 3er), but not everyone is buying a top trim model either.

The majority of buyers are in the middle.




Know more about them than you do.




Again, not at the same transaction price.

Not only does the ES not offer features/amenities that the G80 offers, the ES does not offer higher powertrain options like the G80.

Heck, the Kia Stinger likely has a higher ATP than the ES - due to a high % of buyers opting for the GT trim w/ the TTV6.




In that case, the LS does not compete w/ the Germans and for that matter, the A8 and 7 Series don't really compete w/ the S Class.



Are you really this daft?

Aside from being incapable of getting your facts correct.

in 2017, MB sold 77,446 of the C Class...

which is LESS than what they sold in 2015 (86,080).

C Class sales for 2016 and 2017 were virtually unchanged (if not counting more body-styles trims being available), but nevertheless, sales have been down from that 2015 W205 launch sales height, w/ this year being on track for significantly lower sales.

2015 - 86k
2016 - 77k
2017 - 77k
2018 - 57k (based on sales pace YTD)

Sure looks like C Class sales are declining...




MB and BMW gaining marketshare does not mean that the market for sedans/coupes isn't shrinking.

It's doing both - duh!




This is how delusional you are when this is ypur response to my post where I had stated this...



My statement means that SUV/CUVs sales are increasing, so what the heck are you trying to argue, aside from you just being a stubborn contrarian?




Luxury sedan sales are not flat, they are shrinking.

Some brand/models are doing better than others in limiting the slide.



SUV demand is killing off-lease luxury sedans

And the swing to light trucks has only gotten worse this year.

As the article noted, lux dealerships are swamped w/ off-lease sedans, on top of declining new sedan sales.





How many times does it need to be stated that no one is saying it does?

again..not unpacking all this

But..let me know the breakdown of what options a buyer typically chose on a 7 series in the United States?
To make the statement you did you would need to have the statistics
Please post links to that information

And for the 100th time

Luxury sedan sales in price range of the G80 and G90 are not shrinking
They are flat and there are winners and losers each year
You keep using these descriptive words as if the luxury sedan market is in a free fall in the United States ..its not

I have yet to see you put all the cars in the same transaction price range of the Genesis and show the market shrinking in the last 5 years

You do realize that picking out one car and looking it versus another year means nothing for the total sum of the segment ..right?

Warren

 

[turnne]

Know more about them than you do.


Again, not at the same transaction price.

Not only does the ES not offer features/amenities that the G80 offers, the ES does not offer higher powertrain options like the G80.

The transaction price of the 6 cylinder G80 and the Lexus ES are close. A couple of thousand dollars difference
Very different sales volume though...which I suspect will spike when they roll out the body style Lexus to replaced the one that has been around for years now

But I like the bolded statement

You never acted like more features amenities made a difference...?

This is an interesting change...because if we use that as litmus test then you realize both the BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class have features/amenities that the G90 does not...and the Germans both have higher powertrain options as well

A Chrysler 300 has a V8 available as well

but anyway

Is this your litmus test now

And you considering finishes and customization options now as well?...
Things have changed!!

btw..based on what is going on today do you really feel secure about what is going on the in the United States with the Genesis brand?

As I recall you made some lofty predictions a couple of years that are not even coming close to happening with sales

But you know the luxury car market in the United States....hmmm

Warren

 

[EdP]

I don't think a real Genesis buyer cares if the car is a Hyundai bought at a Hyundai dealership... with bonus points if it costs less because it has a Hyundai badge

I don't think the average BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers are looking at the Genesis anyway

Well, you did bring clarity to one thing. Many here do not like the idea that their Genesis was registered and titled as a Hyundai. They are not real Genesis owners.

You may be right about the average BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers not looking at Genesis but I'm sure the managers at Genesis would like to change that.

 

[turnne]

Well, you did bring clarity to one thing. Many here do not like the idea that their Genesis was registered and titled as a Hyundai. They are not real Genesis owners.

You may be right about the average BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers not looking at Genesis but I'm sure the managers at Genesis would like to change that.

It would not bother me at all to have the title say "Hyundai"

I have no issue with the only "Hyundai" being on the front of the dealership either

On another note
I don't think the "masses" are going to look at these cars without a similar sales channel to the other luxury brands sold in the United States..to start
Then there is some feature and finish disparity

The good news is that that probably means a lower price for buyers who do choose Genesis

Warren

 

[YEH]

ahh...love the way you pick out one example versus an over all United States market

I formerly owned BMW and Mercedez benz ( but never Lexus) vehicles and I don't fit the example you just gave
Not unpacking all this

Let just wait for the sales numbers to roll in vs other sedan in the same transaction category and discuss actual results

Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Jaguar, Audi, Cadillac, Lincoln, Alfa Romeo, etc. is hardly picking out one example (basically everybody but BMW and MB).

You keep saying not unpacking, b/c you can't.

As for your (again, erroneous) claim that car sales aren't down...

Car sales on pace to hit 60-year low

But this year through May, trucks outsold cars by a ratio of more than 2-to-1. And there's no sign that cars will rebound anytime soon.

"Exactly where the floor is, we're still sorting it out," said Stephanie Brinley, senior analyst with IHS Markit.

Facing this new reality, automakers have adjusted their strategies — and there's no one-size-fits-all solution. Some are killing cars while others see opportunity in selling them. Still others with car-heavy sales mixes are playing catch-up in bringing more light trucks to market.

In its annual "Car Wars" report, Bank of America Merrill Lynch forecasts that 71 percent of vehicle introductions in the 2019 through 2022 model years will be light trucks.

"There's definitely further growth ahead," Jeff Schuster, president of LMC Automotive's Americas operation, said of pickups, SUVs and crossovers. He said trucks could account for 75 to 80 percent of U.S. light-vehicle sales by 2025.

Car sales on pace to hit 60-year low

BMW Group — the only sizable automaker besides Hyundai-Kia still selling more cars than trucks — and Daimler are adding numerous nameplates to their crossover and SUV lineups.

And that will change w/ the new X5 and upcoming X7.

And it's not lux buyers simply turning to light trucks offered by the lux brands, but turning to pick-ups and BoF SUVs from non-lux brands (loaded, of course).

More Luxury Buyers Ditch the Imports and Pick Up a Truck

When Lee Victorian was looking for an upscale car to complement his wife’s BMW last year, he was leaning toward an Audi A6 — a sedan whose acceleration, refinement and dazzling array of advanced technologies, like automatic braking and radar-based cruise control, he found alluring.

But what he drove off the lot was an entirely different kind of premium vehicle, and one more luxury buyers are choosing: a pickup truck.

Mr. Victorian, a retired Michigan state trooper, bought a Raptor version of the Ford F-150. The Raptor is a truck with the soul of a racecar: It has a 450-horsepower engine, a 10-speed transmission, electronic ride settings for seven different road surfaces, big chrome wheels, a power tailgate, cameras at all four corners and an adaptive cruise control system similar to the Audi’s. With all those options, the sticker price came to about $80,000.

More Luxury Buyers Ditch the Imports and Pick Up a Truck

Now a new dimension to this trend is emerging: Even upscale buyers who long favored Lexus, Cadillac, Jaguar and the German luxury brands are gravitating to trucks and S.U.V.s. What they are buying are often special-edition, fully loaded models, like Mr. Victorian’s Raptor, that sell for as much as or more than BMW’s flagship 7 Series sedan.

“We are seeing it,” said Tom Libby, an auto industry analyst at the research firm IHS Markit. “There is movement from luxury cars to luxury trucks.”

General Motors’ GMC brand — which sells only trucks and S.U.V.s — accounted for 11.3 percent of domestic sales of models with an average price of $60,000 or more in 2017, according to data from Edmunds.com. Five years earlier, the brand made up a mere 0.1 percent of those sales.

Ford and Chevrolet saw similar but smaller jumps, driven by increasing high-end truck and S.U.V. sales. At the same time, the portion of over-$60,000 sales for luxury brands including Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, Jaguar and Cadillac shrank.

Increasing competition from upmarket S.U.V.s and trucks is adding to the struggles of the luxury makers. Most have long relied on cars for the bulk of their sales, and are suffering now that bigger vehicles are in favor. In 2017, for example, BMW’s sales to individual customers at dealerships in the United States fell more than 5 percent, according data shared among automakers. The decline in BMW’s total sales was less because of a big jump in sales to rental car fleets, a type of customer that luxury brands tended to shun in the past. Out in Tacoma, Wash., Gary Gilchrist sees the trend just about every week at his GMC dealership.
“We’ve been taking in Lexuses on trade-ins, BMWs,” he said. This month, he said, a customer turned in a 2012 BMW 550i and bought a $71,000 GMC Sierra Denali pickup.

Most telling is the chart accompanying the article.

MB's share of selling vehicles in the $60k+ price-point fell from around 20% (2012) to below 15% (2017).

GMC, Chevy and Ford each sell way more vehicles in the $60k+ price-point than Lexus - which has seen its share drop precipitously from a little over 5% to below 3% (which is hardly surprising, as had stated for a long time that LS and GS sales have decreased dramatically from their heydays and that Lexus has become increasingly reliant on cheaper FWD models for sales).

 

[YEH]

I don't think the average BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers are looking at the Genesis anyway

The average Lexus buyer is a value lux buyer - right up Genesis' alley.

And w/ many auto-enthusiast (granted, a minority of Lexus owners/buyers) increasingly frustrated w/ Lexus' direction and increased reliance on cheaper FWD models (including for its CUVs), don't be surprised if more and more turn to Genesis, esp. since Genesis will offer RWD CUVs (and more peformance) for not much more $$ than what Lexus is offering for its FWD CUVs.

I don't think a real Genesis buyer cares if the car is a Hyundai bought at a Hyundai dealership... with bonus points if it costs less because it has a Hyundai badge

Can't over-generalize like that.

While there are some Genesis buyers who don't care about the lux dealership experience and would be priced out of Genesis (due to the added cost of lux service/amenities and the cost of having a separate dealership), there are other buyers who would step into a Genesis dealership and not a Hyundai one.

Plus, there are plenty of stories of Genesis owners who have been frustrated w/ the purchase and/or service experience (esp. pre-G80, when the Genesis sedan didn't get the same service treatment as the Equus).

Which is why I had stated from the start that both avenues will gain and lose buyers.

Now, the previous method was fine w/ just 1-2 models, but w/ a (basic) full line-up in the works, going the separate Genesis route is the way to go.

Already seeing the effect of this in the Saudi market.

Sales of the G80 and G90 have increased ever since the Genesis brand was launched over there.

Keep in mind this is my opinion based on the sales results from the last two years

Which is a flawed construct.

We can look at sales results numbers at the end of the year in the United States

If they keep trending the way they are now I think we can assume one of two things

No, a better way would be to see the sales result after the G70, GV60, GV70 and GV80 have been launched.

1. The BMW, Mercedes and Lexus buyers didn't even come in the Genesis( Hyundai ) dealership
2. They did...but they still didn't choose to buy and preferred the other brands

Why would they come to a Genesis dealership (right now) if they are looking for a lux CUV?

YTD -

C Class - down 32.5%
3 Series - down 8.7%
A4 -down 16.3%
IS - down 9.3% (and they were already pretty low to begin w/)
Q50 - up 0.9% (basically no change - as an increase of only 147)
XE - down 49%


E Class/CLS - down 2.1%
5 Series - up 25.5% (increase largely due to the G30 5er being new last year and only selling 479 for Jan of 2017)
A6 -down 22.6%
GS - up 6.2% (basically not much change from 2017 - having sold only 3,086 vs 2,907 which is still a lot less than the G80)
Q70 - down 24.8%
XF - down 53.7%

Won't get data for Cadillac until tomorrow, but wouldn't be surprised if we saw declines (or at the very least no change) for what are already low sales for the ATS and CTS.

Yeah, sure looks like lux sedan sales aren't down.

 

[turnne]

The average Lexus buyer is a value lux buyer - right up Genesis' alley.

And w/ many auto-enthusiast (granted, a minority of Lexus owners/buyers) increasingly frustrated w/ Lexus' direction and increased reliance on cheaper FWD models (including for its CUVs), don't be surprised if more and more turn to Genesis, esp. since Genesis will offer RWD CUVs (and more peformance) for not much more $$ than what Lexus is offering for its FWD CUVs.




Can't over-generalize like that.

While there are some Genesis buyers who don't care about the lux dealership experience and would be priced out of Genesis (due to the added cost of lux service/amenities and the cost of having a separate dealership), there are other buyers who would step into a Genesis dealership and not a Hyundai one.

Plus, there are plenty of stories of Genesis owners who have been frustrated w/ the purchase and/or service experience (esp. pre-G80, when the Genesis sedan didn't get the same service treatment as the Equus).

Which is why I had stated from the start that both avenues will gain and lose buyers.

Now, the previous method was fine w/ just 1-2 models, but w/ a (basic) full line-up in the works, going the separate Genesis route is the way to go.

Already seeing the effect of this in the Saudi market.

Sales of the G80 and G90 have increased ever since the Genesis brand was launched over there.




Which is a flawed construct.




No, a better way would be to see the sales result after the G70, GV60, GV70 and GV80 have been launched.




Why would they come to a Genesis dealership (right now) if they are looking for a lux CUV?

YTD -

C Class - down 32.5%
3 Series - down 8.7%
A4 -down 16.3%
IS - down 9.3% (and they were already pretty low to begin w/)
Q50 - up 0.9% (basically no change - as an increase of only 147)
XE - down 49%


E Class/CLS - down 2.1%
5 Series - up 25.5% (increase largely due to the G30 5er being new last year and only selling 479 for Jan of 2017)
A6 -down 22.6%
GS - up 6.2% (basically not much change from 2017 - having sold only 3,086 vs 2,907 which is still a lot less than the G80)
Q70 - down 24.8%
XF - down 53.7%

Won't get data for Cadillac until tomorrow, but wouldn't be surprised if we saw declines (or at the very least no change) for what are already low sales for the ATS and CTS.

Yeah, sure looks like lux sedan sales aren't down.

It appears you going to continue to offer flawed methodology and snippets of information

So again....it looks like certain cars are going to gain market share in the same same category and others are losing

I posted that LONG ago
For instance the BMW 5 series gains more than make up for the drop in many of the others....so it means that many buyers bought a 5 series and passed on others
You also skipped Lexus best selling sedan...the ES..
Hmmm......wonder why?..lol

Its funny you mention discounting of cars..but you never mentioned that the Genesis G80 and G90 are discounted at a much rate as a percentage of their sticker prices

And a Lexus buyer is a value buyer huh?
Hmm....I dont see where Genesis seems to be effecting Lexus sales

And then there is that new ES coming in the fall that should shoot up the already 3500 of them a month they are selling now and stealing market share from other brands

According to this review Lexus thinks they can get some people to look at it that were ar cars like the BMW 5 series

Warren