Number of Genesis sold in USA in 2017 and 2018

[turnne]

Won't get data for Cadillac until tomorrow, but wouldn't be surprised if we saw declines (or at the very least no change) for what are already low sales for the ATS and CTS.

Yeah, sure looks like lux sedan sales aren't down.

what do you consider low sales?...please give me YOUR number

As I look the Cadillac CTS sales are flat as they were in 2017 with about the same number of cars being sold vs the same month last year

On another note..the CT6...in the same transaction price range as the G90 is outselling it by 3X

So what would you call the 250 a month( and dropping ) sales of the G90?.....is that low sales?

Again....there are thousands and thousands of cars a month sold in the United States in the transaction price range of the G80 and G90
As a percentage of the total , Genesis cars do not have a a large market share and it is dropping

As I said before..I predict the very long on tooth 2017 Lexus LS to better what much newer design G90 does in 2018...and it sold at a higher price as well

Warren

 

[YEH]

If anyone has a flawed analysis and misuse of data, it has been you.

No need to keep regurgitating what has been stated.

We'll see soon enough when the (basic) full Genesis lineup (3 sedans, 3 CUVs and 1 coupe) is available and the Genesis dealer network is up and running.

 

[turnne]

If anyone has a flawed analysis and misuse of data, it has been you.

No need to keep regurgitating what has been stated.

We'll see soon enough when the (basic) full Genesis lineup (3 sedans, 3 CUVs and 1 coupe) is available and the Genesis dealer network is up and running.

Flawed analysis?!!!

You love to pull out data and seem to only grab a snippet and don't tell the whole story

BUT….read my posts from 2 years ago. Funny how accurate things have played out

The numbers are the numbers...ands the June results are in

Both the G80 and G90 fell in sales.....

They only sold 154 G90's in June 2018 in the United States
The Equus outsold it at the same time in its lifecycle

Comparatively...with sedans in the sedans in the same price range in June 2018

Mercedes E class....4100

BMW 5 series...4300

Cadillac CT6..810

What numbers do you define as slow selling?.....you didn't answer my question

Funny how all those projections you made a couple of years ago are not coming to reality

I suspect that we can see discounts of over 20% on the G90

The 2019 models will coming out in 2 months and suspect that they will have to give the dealers larger incentives to move cars

This will also effect the resale value of the cars as well

Warren

 

[Edmguy]

Flawed analysis?!!!

They only sold 154 G90's in June 2018 in the United States
The Equus outsold it at the same time in its lifecycle

Comparatively...with sedans in the sedans in the same price range in June 2018

Mercedes E class....4100

BMW 5 series...4300

Cadillac CT6..810

I personally think you are still flawed with comparing similar priced cars rather than class of car. Would you compare an Audi A3 to a Toyota Camry for sales numbers? Similar price range maybe but not the same class and likely very seldom cross shopped.

 

[StuW]

As the title states, what are the sales volumes in the US for 2017 and 2018 Genesis (all models). The reason I ask is I have had my G90 for over a month and have yet to see another one on the road, I live in a nice community that is about 20 miles from Sacrament, CA and I have seen more large Mercedes and BMW's than Genesis ( which is pretty obvious since I have yet to see a new Genesis :rolleyes)

Genesis appears to yet again be changing their mind on how they are developing their network. They have stopped importing G80s and G90s a few months ago. See this article:
Genesis Sales Drop, But the Company States That's Part of a Larger Plan [News] - The Fast Lane Car
Stu

 

[YEH]

As I had suspected (based on the lower than usual supply of the G80), corporate has been cutting down on the supply of 2018MY G80's and G90's in order to have a minimal amount when the 2019MY, including the G70, start rolling onto the lots.

While lower sales are hardly surprising in today's climate for sedans, the decline was more drastic than what had been expecting.

Basically, few, if any 2018MY remain at the ports w/ the dealerships pretty much having on their lots what they can sell for the next few months until they start receiving the 2019MY (this, limited to those dealerships/dealer groups which are awarded a Genesis store).

For the Hyundai dealerships which no longer will get to sell Genesis products, figure there isn't much incentive to move the metal; speaking of incentives, the lower supply also explains reduced incentives.

The TFLC article is incorrect, however; they actually describe the prior plan which was been discarded.

What's taking time is actually sorting thru all the dealerships that are interested in a Genesis franchise and can meet the pretty hefty build-out requirements.

Corporate still probably doesn't know how many Genesis dealerships will get awarded.

 

[Paulsr]

As I had suspected (based on the lower than usual supply of the G80), corporate has been cutting down on the supply of 2018MY G80's and G90's in order to have a minimal amount when the 2019MY, including the G70, start rolling onto the lots.

While lower sales are hardly surprising in today's climate for sedans, the decline was more drastic than what had been expecting.

Basically, few, if any 2018MY remain at the ports w/ the dealerships pretty much having on their lots what they can sell for the next few months until they start receiving the 2019MY (this, limited to those dealerships/dealer groups which are awarded a Genesis store).

For the Hyundai dealerships which no longer will get to sell Genesis products, figure there isn't much incentive to move the metal; speaking of incentives, the lower supply also explains reduced incentives.

The TFLC article is incorrect, however; they actually describe the prior plan which was been discarded.

What's taking time is actually sorting thru all the dealerships that are interested in a Genesis franchise and can meet the pretty hefty build-out requirements.

Corporate still probably doesn't know how many Genesis dealerships will get awarded.

Is it true that 2019 models will only go to standalone dealerships?
See this article. Genesis Sales Drop, But the Company States That's Part of a Larger Plan [News] - The Fast Lane Car

 

[EdP]

Is it true that 2019 models will only go to standalone dealerships?
See this article. Genesis Sales Drop, But the Company States That's Part of a Larger Plan [News] - The Fast Lane Car

Yes. No. Maybe. There has been much published, much more speculated. There is a time lag before the dealers have to have a stand alone too. Things have changed a couple of times and can change again.

Only thing certain is that not every Hyundai dealer will sell Genesis.

 

[YEH]

^^ Read the article I had posted.

As suspected, they haven't even finished choosing all the dealer-groups that will get a Genesis store and that procedure wont be finished until the 1Q of next year (let's hope).

So basically, the G70 and other 2019MY will initially be sold at the Hyundai dealerships which have been awarded a Genesis franchise, but more dealerships will be added as they finished going thru the process of selecting franchisees. (So may be a rough go for G70 sales at the start.)

Sales will be switched to the stand-alone Genesis stores whenever each dealer-group finishes the build-out (must be completed by Jan. 2021).

 

[YEH]

I personally think you are still flawed with comparing similar priced cars rather than class of car. Would you compare an Audi A3 to a Toyota Camry for sales numbers? Similar price range maybe but not the same class and likely very seldom cross shopped.

He keeps changing the goal-posts since he was wrong in his assertion that the G90 never outsold the Equus (and been proven even further wrong now that it is known that Hyundai purposely has cut back on supply of the 2018MY).

And it was already pointed out that sedan sales (esp. large sedan) are down, so not reasonable to expect the G90 to outsell the Equus over its life-cycle (the same way it isn't reasonable to expect the LS 500 to outsell the LS 460 over the course of its life-cycle, and the LS 500, unlike the G90, won't ever outsell its predecessor for any one year - won't even come close).

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[turnne]

I personally think you are still flawed with comparing similar priced cars rather than class of car. Would you compare an Audi A3 to a Toyota Camry for sales numbers? Similar price range maybe but not the same class and likely very seldom cross shopped.

I consider class by similar features, finishes and customization options

So..if something has not even close to same available features..then it is not in the same class

Warren

 

[turnne]

He keeps changing the goal-posts since he was wrong in his assertion that the G90 never outsold the Equus (and been proven even further wrong now that it is known that Hyundai purposely has cut back on supply of the 2018MY).

And it was already pointed out that sedan sales (esp. large sedan) are down, so not reasonable to expect the G90 to outsell the Equus over its life-cycle (the same way it isn't reasonable to expect the LS 500 to outsell the LS 460 over the course of its life-cycle, and the LS 500, unlike the G90, won't ever outsell its predecessor for any one year - won't even come close).

Stop..LOL

The Equus in its second year in the United States...2012..is most certainly outselling the G90 in its 2nd year..2018

Warren

 

[turnne]

As I had suspected (based on the lower than usual supply of the G80), corporate has been cutting down on the supply of 2018MY G80's and G90's in order to have a minimal amount when the 2019MY, including the G70, start rolling onto the lots.

While lower sales are hardly surprising in today's climate for sedans, the decline was more drastic than what had been expecting.
.

Again....
They are facing sales drop off of more than 20% a month the last three months

There is tons of inventory of both 2018 G80 and G90's available. In fact there is some decent inventory of new 2017 G90's

Lets look at TODAY
There were at least 10,000 sedans a month sold in the United States in the price range of the G90 in July 2018

The G90 sold 117 units in July 2018. Other cars in the same price range ...such as the Cadillac CT6, that I would call "Climbing brands" sold 809 units

So..based on the sedans actually sold in the months of 2018..Genesis is losing market share

You are right the decline has been drastic for Genesis......especially considering that one of their cars is only a year old design

However...based on sales data and some of what you say

There are going to be some very good deals on Genesis cars
I expect that the high inventory levels and slow sales will have them discounting even heavier..even now likely

It also means that the used cars will also be priced lower as the cars bring less at auction

Warren

 

[YEH]

Again....
They are facing sales drop off of more than 20% a month the last three months

There is tons of inventory of both 2018 G80 and G90's available. In fact there is some decent inventory of new 2017 G90's

Oh, really? As usual, you're wrong (what about Genesis having cut off shipments and wanting the old models to be cleared out do you not get?).

According to Autotrader, there are 1,603 '18MY G80's in stock.

Based on 1st Q sales, that's 1.5 months worth of supply.

That stock of G80's is going to have to last thru Sept., maybe Oct. or who knows (shipments of '18MY Genesis models stopped over 3 months ago)?

It all depends on when Genesis has enough dealerships signed up where it is worth it to launch the '19MY, including the G70.

That's the reason why Genesis isn't advertising, etc. - they're just going to let the stock run out on its own.

And there are 488 '18MY G90's in stock; which again (based on 1Q) sales is a 1.5 month supply.

Genesis has stated that their current sales are only 4% off projections (based on their plan of liquidating the old stock).

In contrast, Lexus has 1,688 of the LS 500 in stock (w/ more shipments on the way) and sold 712.

So the 4th straight month of decline (for a brand new model that has been on the market for only 6 full months) and the 4th straight month of not attaining its modest sales goal of 1k/month.

Lets look at TODAY
There were at least 10,000 sedans a month sold in the United States in the price range of the G90 in July 2018

The G90 sold 117 units in July 2018. Other cars in the same price range ...such as the Cadillac CT6, that I would call "Climbing brands" sold 809 units

Uhm, again...

Is Cadillac undergoing the change in dealerships like Genesis?

So..based on the sedans actually sold in the months of 2018..Genesis is losing market share

You are right the decline has been drastic for Genesis......especially considering that one of their cars is only a year old design

Man, you can't even get your basic facts correct.

The G90 hit the market in Sept. of 2016 - so it's about to enter its 3rd year (and nearly 4th yr in Korea); which is why there is already a facelifted version undergoing testing.

Instead of your totally not applicable CT6 comparison, a more appropriate one would be the A6.

While it's not undergoing a dealership change, it is, however, about to undergo a model (gen) change.

The A6 sold a measly 157 last month and 309 the month prior.

Even for a model change-over, that's markedly bad.

And it's not like there is such a shortage of the '18MY A6 w/ 1,903 in stock (which is more than the G80).

Sales of the A8 have even been worse - selling only 34, 51, 71 and 83 for the past 4 months.

There are going to be some very good deals on Genesis cars
I expect that the high inventory levels and slow sales will have them discounting even heavier..even now likely

Well, putting aside your being wrong on there being high inventory levels, don't think Genesis will do much to move the remaining stock as it should pretty much sell out by the time they are ready to launch the '19MY at the dealerships (or at least the majority of them) that have acquired a Genesis franchise.

Now, if that time-table (for whatever reason) has been pushed up to say, Sept. - then they'll probably do something to clear old the remaining stock of '18MY.

 

[turnne]

Oh, really? As usual, you're wrong (what about Genesis having cut off shipments and wanting the old models to be cleared out do you not get?).

According to Autotrader, there are 1,603 '18MY G80's in stock.

Based on 1st Q sales, that's 1.5 months worth of supply.

That stock of G80's is going to have to last thru Sept., maybe Oct. or who knows (shipments of '18MY Genesis models stopped over 3 months ago)?

It all depends on when Genesis has enough dealerships signed up where it is worth it to launch the '19MY, including the G70.

That's the reason why Genesis isn't advertising, etc. - they're just going to let the stock run out on its own.

And there are 488 '18MY G90's in stock; which again (based on 1Q) sales is a 1.5 month supply.

Genesis has stated that their current sales are only 4% off projections (based on their plan of liquidating the old stock).

In contrast, Lexus has 1,688 of the LS 500 in stock (w/ more shipments on the way) and sold 712.

So the 4th straight month of decline (for a brand new model that has been on the market for only 6 full months) and the 4th straight month of not attaining its modest sales goal of 1k/month.

Here you go with all over the map numbers

I can understand genesis wanting to cut off supply
The numbers have dropped by over 25% in the last 90 days
Its more about that than anything else

Why would a "for profit" company cut off supply to a car that is selling well

Genesis has sales plans to only sell 117 G90's? ...when comparably priced sedans are selling in the thousands of units per month

Not sure what type of business plan that is

I assure that it would be quite a foolish business decision to invest in a free standing dealership with nothing but low volume highly discounted cars

As I said more than two years ago....I dont see free standing dealerships in the United States anytime soon
It doesnt make business sense

As for the Lexus LS ..that car hasnt sold well in more than a decade....consistent sales of 1000 or more a month

Nothing has changed with that in 10 years. The reviews have been lackluster and I am not sure what they are trying to do. The car doesnt compete with the German cars and yet it must be close enough in price for buyers to buy other makes
The S class.. a higher average price..has out sold it consistently for the past decade

Uhm, again...

Is Cadillac undergoing the change in dealerships like Genesis?

Yes...they are rebuilding their brand and going after a completely different market
Actually everyone knows this..

Should be complete when they come out with their $100K plus flagship in late 2019 ear 2020

Man, you can't even get your basic facts correct.

The G90 hit the market in Sept. of 2016 - so it's about to enter its 3rd year (and nearly 4th yr in Korea); which is why there is already a facelifted version undergoing testing.

Well..the facelift will sell less units that the new introduction in the United States..I would bet money on that

There are many 2017 new G90's still sitting on dealer lots as well at this time

Instead of your totally not applicable CT6 comparison, a more appropriate one would be the A6.

While it's not undergoing a dealership change, it is, however, about to undergo a model (gen) change.

The A6 sold a measly 157 last month and 309 the month prior.

Even for a model change-over, that's markedly bad.

Actually ..there are several features available on the CT6 that are not available on the G90 for any price

As for the A6..its a slow seller..compared to what seem to be the cars of choice in the same price range the Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series

Its long on tooth and even then is outselling the G90

And it's not like there is such a shortage of the '18MY A6 w/ 1,903 in stock (which is more than the G80).

Sales of the A8 have even been worse - selling only 34, 51, 71 and 83 for the past 4 months.

Are there ample 2017 A6's available as well like the G90?

You are comparing cars that have never sold well and are both being replaced
At 117 units sold for a car that was introduced as a 2017 model..can you imagine what the G90 will do in sales even next year?
I suspect its get to the numbers of the Kia K900 at 55-65 units per month

As highly as the G90 is discounted and at the numbers they are selling it would be hard for me to see something not changing drastically


Warren

 

[YEH]

Stop..LOL

The Equus in its second year in the United States...2012..is most certainly outselling the G90 in its 2nd year..2018

Warren

How many times do I have to repeat that sedan sales have declined, so current gen models won't sell as well as previous gen models (as many buyers have moved onto CUVs); and that's not even taking into account Genesis having cut supply and sales support for the '18MY?

And yet, the top sales yr for the G90 still bettered that of the Equus.

Meanwhile, the LS 500 won't even come close to touching the 460 in sales.

35,226 vs. 8,708 (projected based on sales YTD).

Heck, the LS 500 won't even hit the sales mark of the 460 after it got its 2nd facelift (sold 10,727 in 2013).

So, your point is, well pointless.

And on top of that, the LS is in trouble as the US is by far its largest market (the LS doesn't sell well in Japan).

The G90, otoh, has sold very well in its domestic market and the new K900 (based on the same platform) is also selling very well (over 1,700/month).

It's going to be very difficult for Toyota to recover ROI on the LS 500, which is something they knew all along (which is why I had stated that they tried to squeeze every penny out of the LS 460 - lengthening the life-cycle w/o doing any expensive powertrain upgrades and just less costly cosmetic ones).

And it looks more and more likely that we will see the demise of the GS, as the latest rumor of the IS is that it will grow in size (something akin to the Q70).

As for Genesis...

But with more than 220,000 units already sold worldwide and only two vehicles in its stable, the nascent automaker is inching its way upwards.

And that's w/ the switch-over to the G80 nameplate not occurring in Korea 'til 2016.

That # should rise when the G70 launches, plus the upcoming CUVs (and doesn't even include the Kia models which share platforms and powertrains).

Speaking of Kia, the Stinger, in Germany, outsells the entire RWD lineups for Lexus and Infiniti combined and it's not even close; which is the reason why the GS had been discontinued in Europe.

 

[turnne]

How many times do I have to repeat that sedan sales have declined, so current gen models won't sell as well as previous gen models (as many buyers have moved onto CUVs); and that's not even taking into account Genesis having cut supply and sales support for the '18MY?

And yet, the top sales yr for the G90 still bettered that of the Equus.

Ok..lets compare 2018 G90 to 2012 Equus
I am certain the Equus will come out ahead..even without an AWD option

Meanwhile, the LS 500 won't even come close to touching the 460 in sales.

35,226 vs. 8,708 (projected based on sales YTD).

Heck, the LS 500 won't even hit the sales mark of the 460 after it got its 2nd facelift (sold 10,727 in 2013).

So, your point is, well pointless.

And on top of that, the LS is in trouble as the US is by far its largest market (the LS doesn't sell well in Japan).

The G90, otoh, has sold very well in its domestic market and the new K900 (based on the same platform) is also selling very well (over 1,700/month).

How far back do you have to go for the Lexus LS to have sold in that many units?
That car hasnt sold well in more than a decade
People are spending more and buying the german sedans in the full size market and have for many years

The lexus ES and those SUV's are what is keeping the expensive to operate lexus dealers light on

Again..the G90 and K900 are not doing well here.Hopefully they can cover their overhead with in their domestic market

It's going to be very difficult for Toyota to recover ROI on the LS 500, which is something they knew all along (which is why I had stated that they tried to squeeze every penny out of the LS 460 - lengthening the life-cycle w/o doing any expensive powertrain upgrades and just less costly cosmetic ones).

The car hasnt been reviewed that well. No V8 and no really cutting edge technology like the germans

I am really not sure what they were trying to do.The car is still $85-94K decently equipped. They had some uptick in sales but its too close to the German prices I guess

No doubt they tried to squezze every penny out of the last body style since t hasnt been selling well in years
Meanwhile they can sell 4000 a month of a long on tooth ES and some of their crossovers

So..clearly you know where they are going to concentrate their efforts

And it looks more and more likely that we will see the demise of the GS, as the latest rumor of the IS is that it will grow in size (something akin to the Q70).

As for Genesis...



And that's w/ the switch-over to the G80 nameplate not occurring in Korea 'til 2016.

That # should rise when the G70 launches, plus the upcoming CUVs (and doesn't even include the Kia models which share platforms and powertrains).

Speaking of Kia, the Stinger, in Germany, outsells the entire RWD lineups for Lexus and Infiniti combined and it's not even close; which is the reason why the GS had been discontinued in Europe.

Again..the Lexus ES and those crossovers are what is keeping the lights on at the Lexus dealership

And for the 100th time.....what and how United States buyers choose has nothing to do with what sells in other countries

Warren

 

[YEH]

Here you go with all over the map numbers

I can understand genesis wanting to cut off supply
The numbers have dropped by over 25% in the last 90 days
Its more about that than anything else

OMG!

Such decline in sales has everything to do w/ Genesis cutting off supply!

What about Genesis having cut off shipments more than 3 months ago do you not get?

Sure, there was going to be a natural decline due to declining sedan sales as well as the G80 nearing the end of its life-cyle (a new model is due in about a year's time), so we're probably talking sales in the 800/mnth range.

And even at its current (artificially induced) sales pace, it still outsells pretty much everything but the E Class and 5 Series.

Why would a "for profit" company cut off supply to a car that is selling well

Are u serious?

There is an ongoing dealership change - Hyundai is trying to wean the dealerships which sell the G80 or the G80/G90, but won't be doing so going forward.

And they want it so when the 2019MY hit the lots at the designated Genesis dealerships, including the G70, that there won't be too many leftover '18MY at Hyundai dealerships.

Genesis has sales plans to only sell 117 G90's? ...when comparably priced sedans are selling in the thousands of units per month

Not sure what type of business plan that is

See above - man, you're not exactly the forward-looking type are you?

I assure that it would be quite a foolish business decision to invest in a free standing dealership with nothing but low volume highly discounted cars

By the time stand-alone Genesis stores are built and up and running, not only will there be the G70, the GV80 and GV70 CUVs will have been added to the lineup (as well as the next gen G80 and the facelifted G90).

As I said more than two years ago....I dont see free standing dealerships in the United States anytime soon
It doesnt make business sense

Yeah, must be the reason why Hyundai had to abandon their plans for a 100 strong Genesis dealership network due to an uprising from dealer groups which owned Hyundai dealerships who were going to be locked out.

There were dealerships willing to forgo as high as $4 million payout/compensation packages for the opportunity to invest upwards of $10 million into a Genesis franchise.

Think they would know a bit more about this than you (don't think analysis of the auto industry is your strong-point).

As for the Lexus LS ..that car hasnt sold well in more than a decade....consistent sales of 1000 or more a month

It didn't sell over 10k due to Toyota lengthening the life-cycle and making no powertrain upgrades (it had the same V8 engine from over a decade ago).

Not that there are any flagship sedans that sell over 10k/yr anymore - the S Class pretty much it and it's even getting hit by the CUV/SUBV craze,

But the aged/outdated LS 460 still managed to sell 10k a yr - the brand new LS 500 w/ a new powertrain won't even hit that.

Based on your claim - shouldn't an all new model outsell one that had already hit the latter stages of its life-cycle?

Nothing has changed with that in 10 years. The reviews have been lackluster and I am not sure what they are trying to do. The car doesnt compete with the German cars and yet it must be close enough in price for buyers to buy other makes
The S class.. a higher average price..has out sold it consistently for the past decade

You just keep telling yourself that.

So much has changed in the auto industry/biz over the past decade.

Yes...they are rebuilding their brand and going after a completely different market
Actually everyone knows this.

They're adding to their CUV lineup and revamping their sedan line-up, they're not changing their dealership/sales distribution network.

Quite a different thing.

If Sal reads this, he would get a huge laugh out if it (you, informing me about the going ons at Cadillac).

Yes...they are rebuilding their brand and going after a completely different market
Actually everyone knows this..

Trust me, I know way more about the going ons at Cadillac than you do.

Well..the facelift will sell less units that the new introduction in the United States..I would bet money on that

Uhh, facelifts usually don't increase sales over the 1st-2nd model years for a new gen model, they just slow down the level of decline.

There are many 2017 new G90's still sitting on dealer lots as well at this time

I had already pointed this out as being another one of your false claims, but not surprisingly, have to do it again.

There are a whopping 25 '17MY G90's on the lots (according to AT).

Well, guess your definition of lots is different from everyone else's.

Actually ..there are several features available on the CT6 that are not available on the G90 for any price

Who cares?

As for the A6..its a slow seller..compared to what seem to be the cars of choice in the same price range the Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series

Everyone knows that the A6 doesn't sell as well as its German compatriots.

But at the same time, it was outselling pretty much everything else (aside from the Genesis/G80).

2014 - 23,941
2015 - 22,850
2016 - 18,686

Such a drastic sales decline for the A6 is peculiar, even for a model change-over.

Its long on tooth and even then is outselling the G90

Not outselling the G80.

Are there ample 2017 A6's available as well like the G90?

By ample - do you mean more than 25?


The rest is the same old, tired claims that have been debunked numerous time.

However, going to comment on this as this is a particularly obtuse observation (which, naturally, had already been debunked).

And for the 100th time.....what and how United States buyers choose has nothing to do with what sells in other countries

And for the 101st time, what an auto-maker can sell world-wide goes into the calculation of ROI - whether it is worth developing the next gen model.

If the GS sold better in Europe, Japan and other markets, then declining US sales wouldn't be so much of an issue. as there would be sufficient ROI from the other markets.

But as the US is overwhelmingly the largest market for the GS and it isn't doing well here, then there really isn't much of a business reason to sink R&D into another one.

 

[turnne]

OMG!

Such decline in sales has everything to do w/ Genesis cutting off supply!

What about Genesis having cut off shipments more than 3 months ago do you not get?

Sure, there was going to be a natural decline due to declining sedan sales as well as the G80 nearing the end of its life-cyle (a new model is due in about a year's time), so we're probably talking sales in the 800/mnth range.

And even at its current (artificially induced) sales pace, it still outsells pretty much everything but the E Class and 5 Series.

The G80 is not even close to the same price as the E class and 5 series.Compare it to the C class and 3/4 series that outsell the G80 many times over and havent had their sales drop off by 25% , recently, like the G80 has

I am not sure why you try to compare the G80 to cars that have a lot more features and are significantly more expensive
You dont know who cant afford the higher priced car that would buy it...and then there is that significant feature set difference

Are u serious?

There is an ongoing dealership change - Hyundai is trying to wean the dealerships which sell the G80 or the G80/G90, but won't be doing so going forward.

And they want it so when the 2019MY hit the lots at the designated Genesis dealerships, including the G70, that there won't be too many leftover '18MY at Hyundai dealerships.

As few cars as are being sold with the genesis nameplate that really should not be an issue
And then there is the fact that these "designated" dealers will still not be freestanding

See above - man, you're not exactly the forward-looking type are you?

What?!!
I posted over two years ago that the G90 would not sell well and would be discounted heavily along with low resale
That is exactly what has happened

By the time stand-alone Genesis stores are built and up and running, not only will there be the G70, the GV80 and GV70 CUVs will have been added to the lineup (as well as the next gen G80 and the facelifted G90).

Stand alone Genesis are nothing that is going to happen anytime soon

I will bet all types of money on that

Yeah, must be the reason why Hyundai had to abandon their plans for a 100 strong Genesis dealership network due to an uprising from dealer groups which owned Hyundai dealerships who were going to be locked out.

There were dealerships willing to forgo as high as $4 million payout/compensation packages for the opportunity to invest upwards of $10 million into a Genesis franchise.

Think they would know a bit more about this than you (don't think analysis of the auto industry is your strong-point).

Actuals are my strong point

Business sense 101 says there is no way they can build a free standing luxury dealership on slow selling highly discounted vehicles

It didn't sell over 10k due to Toyota lengthening the life-cycle and making no powertrain upgrades (it had the same V8 engine from over a decade ago).

Not that there are any flagship sedans that sell over 10k/yr anymore - the S Class pretty much it and it's even getting hit by the CUV/SUBV craze,

But the aged/outdated LS 460 still managed to sell 10k a yr - the brand new LS 500 w/ a new powertrain won't even hit that.

Based on your claim - shouldn't an all new model outsell one that had already hit the latter stages of its life-cycle?

The LS500 is outselling the outgoing LS460

But the LS hasnt sold well in more than 10 years

In the last full year the LS only sold about 3500 cars
The LS500 is already there

You just keep telling yourself that.

So much has changed in the auto industry/biz over the past decade.

Sure it has

Which is why I dont understand why you are using LS460 figures from 10 years ago as some litmus test

Its a slow selling car for them and has been for years...use a Lexus sedan ( close to the G80 in price) that people are buying like the ES350

They're adding to their CUV lineup and revamping their sedan line-up, they're not changing their dealership/sales distribution network.

Quite a different thing.

If Sal reads this, he would get a huge laugh out if it (you, informing me about the going ons at Cadillac).




Trust me, I know way more about the going ons at Cadillac than you do.

Its really public knowledge that they have changed direction based on their prior models

No rocket science their to see their going after a sportier( and probably german) buyer

But again its about selling cars. At a simiar price point the CT6 sold 807 units and the G90 sold 117 last month

Who cares?

I guess buyers do
The CT6 outsold the G90 at a similar price point by about 600 percent

Important here to also keep in mind that the Cadillac dealer needs to sell Cadillacs
Most dont have a "corner" car in their showroom that has to have overhead covered by the other cars they are selling

Everyone knows that the A6 doesn't sell as well as its German compatriots.

But at the same time, it was outselling pretty much everything else (aside from the Genesis/G80).

2014 - 23,941
2015 - 22,850
2016 - 18,686

Such a drastic sales decline for the A6 is peculiar, even for a model change-over.

You keep mentioning the A6.....far more expensive than a G80
Its an old platform thats about to be changed and has never had great market share compared to the Mercedes E class and BMW 5 series

Not outselling the G80.

Look at other sedans that are in the G80's price range

Mercedes C class..BMW 3/4 series...heck even the long on tooth Lexus Es350 sold 4500 units last month

So people that spent about the same amount of money bought about 4000 each of those cars last month
The G80 sold

By ample - do you mean more than 25?


The rest is the same old, tired claims that have been debunked numerous time.

Well its kind of like your comment about "slow selling " cars

You never answered what number that was

You havent debunked anything

Again..look at my posts from more than 2 years ago, specifically about the G90 sales and resale and lack of free standing dealerships

Its come true to the letter

Warren

 

[jsmit86]

Without a doubt, inventory levels and distribution strategy are having a big impact on sales, planned according to Genesis:

While the Genesis brand’s sales figures have gone down, so has their inventory of new vehicles. According to Genesis, imports of new models ceased 3 months ago. That means the all-new, in-house G70 will go on sale essentially as soon as there is a place to sell it.

My lease is up in November, and I have been researching inventory for quite some time.
Last year, there were several G80s with the package and colors I wanted available in my local area.
Now... there is ONE in the entire nation. ONE.
Even moving to second and third choice, it's slim pickings.
Oh.. and the discounts are MUCH lower than my 2015, and much lower than last year.

Add the distribution debacle to the mix, and it's not a surprise that sales are anemic. Having said that, Genesis Motors is only 3% off their target for this year.

As far as the car is concerned, I'd like nothing more than to purchase a G80 to replace my 2015 Genesis.
Having said that, I most likely will not do so. I love the car, but I won't lease this time, and I have an alternate vehicle in mind that will cost about $15K less than the G80. (It's not a sedan)

I hope Genesis can get their act together, because IMHO it's an excellent product.