Oil Catch Can (OCC) on 2017 G80 5.0L

[nickpike]

Couple of questions
1) Would most of this oil normally get sucked into the cylinder and burnt? So only a small amount may coat the valves? You are measuring some significant quantities, but most I would have thought would get burnt in the cylinder.
2) Mine is a 3.8L, European model. I only drive 8k miles a year and see no drop in sump oil at all from annual service to service. May I assume my valves would suffer very little oil build-up?

Nick

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

1) No - The issue is exacerbated by GDI engines (All G80 and G90's). In a GDI, no fuel is flowing over the backside of the intake valve to "clean/rinse" it. Search for "gdi valve issues".
Issue is even more likely in a turbo charged and/or higher compression engine because there is likely more cylinder blow-by which would cause more oil to go from crankcase to PCV valve to intake manifold.

"Better/good" fuel nor injector cleaner will fix this issue. Prevent/reduce the build-up or eventually you'll likely have to remove the manifold and clean the intake.

2) Based on results posted earlier in this thread the oil loss is about 3 fluid ounces per 5K miles. This loss would not be noticeable by looking at the oil dip stick.

 

[Spanky61]

Couple of questions
1) Would most of this oil normally get sucked into the cylinder and burnt? So only a small amount may coat the valves? You are measuring some significant quantities, but most I would have thought would get burnt in the cylinder.
2) Mine is a 3.8L, European model. I only drive 8k miles a year and see no drop in sump oil at all from annual service to service. May I assume my valves would suffer very little oil build-up?

Nick

Yes that's right, It's a direct injected motor. You won't have any problems, an oil "catch can" is something someone is attempting to push onto others because of their own unfounded fear. They've read it off the Internet and drank the Koolaid, so to speak. There is no basis for such fear. If the manufacturer thought it was a engineering problem, they would have installed on themselves. All a catch can does is; catch oil that is moving in the emission system before it is re-burnt in the combustion chamber. It won't effect they way the Genesis is engineered to run.

The actual reason for catch can use is; primarily in an application of high crank case pressure blow by, in Turbo applications. The crank case pressures in a normally aspirated motor, are not high enough to warrant it's use. Even in the 5.0 there isn't enough pressure to warrant it's use. The 3.3 Twin Turbo produces a lower pressure than most single turbo units, as it is staged.

Most manufacturers have changed over to direct injection to meet LEV/ULEV standards. If it was such a problem, there would be such a consumer outcry due to engine failures related to it directly, the manufactures would have to redesign their motors all together. Could you imagine the class action lawsuits that would follow. Not happening and won't, relax.

No fear, you're fine and so is you 3.8L Genesis. . Simply put, it's a waste of time and money.

 

[Gen127]

All a catch can does is; catch oil that is moving in the emission system before it is re-burnt in the combustion chamber. It won't effect they way the Genesis is engineered to run....The actual reason for catch can use is; primarily an application in high crank case pressure blow by in Turbo applications. The crank case pressures in a normally aspirated motor, are not high enough to warrant it's use.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

The issue is applicable to all GDI engines. It is more/worse in a higher compression GDI engine (e.g. Turbo). GDI engines have not been in large scale use and long enough for the problem to become common (2.3 percent of production for model year 2008 vehicles to just over 45 percent expected production for model year 2015). We'll see how this plays out in 5 years. To each their own.

 

[Spanky61]

Not really, you've just drank the koolaid like a bunch of others have. There are many direct injected engines that have been on the road for longer than 5 year now and no such problems, except for those who don't take care of their vehicles. Nuff said!

 

[glennk]

According to Wiki, "Direct gasoline injection was applied during the Second World War to almost all higher-output production aircraft powerplants made in Germany..."

Mitsubishi has been using GDI since 1996. BMW since 2003. We are seeing problems cropping up in various brands, requiring service (walnut blasting). I agree with Spanky61, we'll see more observations over time and be able to statistically pinpoint the weak points of the system.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

I finally got around to documenting the Oil Can Collection (OCC)/ PCV Catch Can install I did at 3,700 miles April 2018 on my 2018 G80 Sport AWD (3.3L TT V6).

My requirements for deciding how to install this were.
R1) No modifications in engine compartment (i.e. No new drill holes)
R2) Easily removable. Dealer suggested I remove this whenever I bring it for service to avoid warranty claims being denied.
R3) Easily accessible for draining tank without removing entire assembly.

Total Cost $113.72USD (plus some minor items already had).
It took about 1 hour of work (not counting waiting 2 coats of spray paint to dry).

Parts
P1) Oil Catch Can - Mishimoto MMBCC-MSTWO-BK Black Compact Baffled 2-Port Oil Catch Can
Amazon $95.74USD
This one has an air diverter which should help oil separation.
It also has a 50 micron filter in the output side which should help particles and oil from being pulled into the manifold.
The purchased OCC has a smaller capacity than most catch cans. Based on 4,000 miles I should be able to empty it at my 5,000 mile oil change without worry of it reaching capacity (I'm still going to check it every 1,000 miles though .
I did not want the oil level clear glass indicator. I had heard they are prone to leaking.

P2a) 2 x Galvanize Steel Angle $1.30 each.
P2b) 2 x small bolts to attach steel angle brackets together ((I had these laying around the house).

P3) 2 x Radiator hose clamps (I had these laying around the house).

P4) 3 feet transmission hose (NAPA Estimated $5.00USD).
Inside diameter 0.5 inch (This critical for the fit. Take one of the plastic fittings when you purchase the hose).
Outside 0.8 inch diameter (not critical).
P5) Rust-Oleum High Performance Enamel spray paint (to paint bracket). $5.27USD.
P6) Chore Boy Stainless Steel Scrubber $5.11USD.
This will enhance oil collection within OCC.

P9) Thin unshielded/bare copper wire. (I had this laying around the house).
This is used to attach the stainless steel scrubber to the OCC air diverter.



Assembly
Install location



A1) Attach Stainless Steel scrubber to underside of OCC air diverter (silver/aluminum plate) with thin copper wire.
Trim the scrubber to fit within the can. Ensure there are no loose pieces.


A2) Assemble mounting bracket.
Bolt steel angle brackets together offset per picture below.

Drill holes in assembled angle bracket to mount to OCC bracket.
Paint assembled angle bracket.
Remove existing 10mm bolt near +/positive side of "battery cover". I know the batter is actually in the trunk.


Test fit assembled bracket and mark hole to drill in assembled bracket based on existing vehicle bolt.


Drill mounting hole (0.25 inch) in assembled angle bracket
Mount OCC bracket to angle bracket.
Adjust the mount bracket on the OCC to orient the hose fittings correctly.

A3) Cut transmission hose to 28"
Connect one end to RIGHT OCC fitting (looking from top off OCC).

A4) Disconnect vehicles PCV host from intake manifold and mount to LEFT OCC fitting (looking from top off OCC).


Connect end of OCC output hose (new hose) to manifold.

A4) Add some tape to the inside of the new assembled angled bracket to protect from scratching the engine interior plastic.
Mount new assembled angled bracket with existing 10mm bolt removed above..


Things I'd change/do differently
C1) The bracket is ugly. I may replace with a color matching custom made bracket when I get time.
C2) The OCC is mounted above one of the turbo chargers. I considered the turbo charger heat may cause the collected oil to vaporize and get sucked into the manifold. I've seen some people mount the OCC to the firewall, but this makes it a little less accessible for draining and I did not want to drill a hole in the engine compartment.
C4) I'd use a glossier black for the bracket. The matte black does not match the engine compartment color.

I was collecting about 3.0 ml / 0.1 fl-oz per 500 miles. This was kinda low compared to others reports in this forum. I did check the output side hose of the OCC and it was dry/no oil (good thing). I recently (500 miles ago) added the stainless steel scrubber to the OCC. I'll monitor for increased oil collection.

 

[mcginnpm]

Did you paint the foam covers as well in the rear?

Nope

 

[glennk]

Any brands recommended?

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[Dat5.0GenLyfe2016]

Here's a 10,000 mile report on my OCC.

It looks like 200ml of oil have been captured thus far, or an average of 1ml every 50 miles.

I don't how much that's helping to stop oil from "baking" on the back side of the intake valves, but I'm quite frankly happy that this stuff wasn't re-introduced into the intake via the PCV. I wish that I had a bore scope to take a peek. Perhaps someday I'll pull the heads and take a look.

Can you actually make another one if I pay you??

 

[NSXNEXT]

Hey guys you do know there is another PCV on the right side. I just got my mishimoto baffled oil catch cans back from powder coat. So I'll post up pics when I get to the install.

Is there a reason you guys aren't running a 3 port OCC and connecting both PCVs (right and left) to the can?

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

My understanding is the 2018 Genesis 3.3L twin turbo (likely same for 3.8 and 5.0 but I don't know) only has a single PCV valve (engine passenger side). There is an EGR valve on the (engine drivers side). I only connected a 2 port OCC to the PCV side. I was less concerned about the EGR gases (mostly soot) but more so for the PCV valve gases (oil vapor).

A 3 port OCC or a 2nd OCC could be connected to the EGR side, but IMO this added complexity (another hose) and cost for minimal additional benefit.

 

[NSXNEXT]

Here's my V8 RSpec.
1st is passenger side
2nd is drivers side
They both route to the intake tract.
Passenger side goes right into throttle body
Driver side goes into plastic intake tube
You're saying one is PCV and one is EGR?

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

I am not familiar with the V8 engine layout and the provided pictures do not give a "full picture" (pun intended).

I provide the following.
The PCV valve hose connects into the manifold and the valve cover.
The EGR valve hose connects manifold and the exhaust system.

A cursory look at a parts diagram at Hyundai Parts - Genuine OEM Hyundai Parts and Accessories Online indicates there is only a single PCV valve.
I leave it to you to go through the diagrams to find where the the EGR system is located.

 

[bubbaG80Sport]

Update. I changed my oil this weekend (5K miles on oil between 20K->25K). I emptied the OCC with approximately 0.5 fluid ounces/1 tablespoon of oil. Interestingly, I had stored/saved the oil drained from the 15K->20K OCC empty. It had a thin layer of carbon build up in the bottom of the jar. It took brake cleaner to breakup/clean it out.

I'd be interested in the amounts of oil others are collecting in their OCC. Please specify amount/miles (km's are ok also ). The amount I'm collecting in my OCC seems low to me. I checked the hose from the OCC to the PCV valve and it was "bone dry"/no oil.

 

[Beeswax]

I found this link for the 3.3TT guys that want to install an OCC, but don't want to go through the
trouble of finding the right fittings, hoses, brackets, etc. They offer a single or dual OCC.
Kind of pricey, but seem OEM quality.

SXTH Element Engineering

Engineering and manufacturing custom parts for Kia and Hyundai vehicles in Greenville SC

www.sxthelement.com

 

[CVODON]

You did a very nice job. But why did you use brass fittings? Stands out instantly when I opened the photo. Normally brass fittings are not used on hard lines like steel. But once again you did an extra nice install.
I feel this is a perfect excuse for a dealer to deny warranty to engine problems, I know a GM service manager and asked him, he instantly said he would deny any engine warranty and base it on "Owner defeated" EPA required equipment. So you mention easy to remove, I would remove it before any trip to the dealer. Otherwise someone will or could document it and flag your car.

 

[pulsar]

You did a very nice job. But why did you use brass fittings? Stands out instantly when I opened the photo. Normally brass fittings are not used on hard lines like steel. But once again you did an extra nice install.
I feel this is a perfect excuse for a dealer to deny warranty to engine problems, I know a GM service manager and asked him, he instantly said he would deny any engine warranty and base it on "Owner defeated" EPA required equipment. So you mention easy to remove, I would remove it before any trip to the dealer. Otherwise someone will or could document it and flag your car.

There have been many discussions here about warranty claims. If the transmission goes out, long shot the dealer could use then catch can to deny warranty. Same with radio, trim and most engine issues. The vapor recovery system, whether connected, disconnected or a catch can in the middle of it will not create an issue and it would be up to the dealer to prove the catch can caused the problem. Does not mean the dealer won’t be a dick or attempt to deny a claim though. Those who are nervous, disconnect the lines and go back OEM. 30 minute job at the most if you need to take it to the dealer for work. Probably best for those who are nervous to just not mod anything to begin with.

 

[Origin_G80]

Yes that's right, It's a direct injected motor. You won't have any problems, an oil "catch can" is something someone is attempting to push onto others because of their own unfounded fear. They've read it off the Internet and drank the Koolaid, so to speak. There is no basis for such fear. If the manufacturer thought it was a engineering problem, they would have installed on themselves. All a catch can does is; catch oil that is moving in the emission system before it is re-burnt in the combustion chamber. It won't effect they way the Genesis is engineered to run.

The actual reason for catch can use is; primarily in an application of high crank case pressure blow by, in Turbo applications. The crank case pressures in a normally aspirated motor, are not high enough to warrant it's use. Even in the 5.0 there isn't enough pressure to warrant it's use. The 3.3 Twin Turbo produces a lower pressure than most single turbo units, as it is staged.

Most manufacturers have changed over to direct injection to meet LEV/ULEV standards. If it was such a problem, there would be such a consumer outcry due to engine failures related to it directly, the manufactures would have to redesign their motors all together. Could you imagine the class action lawsuits that would follow. Not happening and won't, relax.

No fear, you're fine and so is you 3.8L Genesis. . Simply put, it's a waste of time and money.

You, sir, are wrong. Please take a look at these pictures and tell me if this engine is going to be fine. I noticed this carbon buildup after removing the surge tank in order to get to the spark plugs.