Other cool cars like the G70

[canucklehead604]

^ always fun to see track session vids. damn that looks fun. not sure i can get on board with that guy though regarding tracking down and passing the G70. who knows the story with the G70 driver. could have been a newbie who knows how to hammer the throttle but lacks seat time for braking/cornering. also, the G70 clearly backs off to let the Giulia by. could have been running hot, needing to cool down, or a variety of reasons. so the Giulia guy did not pass the G70 in a competitive manner. the G70 gave up the spot willingly. similar to how the Evo guy let both cars fly by. obviously the Evo is a far quicker car than that, so he was backing off for a reason, etc.

not saying the Giulia isn't a great handling car. i know it is, and with the 2.0T is has a nimble front end with super sharp turn in. but the guy was not giving reasonable context to the 'passing of the G70'. it is clear that G70/Evo/Audi guys are waving the Giulia guy past. that R35 driver was obviously a first-timer and not a particularly skilled one at that...

 

[Volfy]

Have not run our G70 at COTA, but we were at Grandsport Speedway last Sunday.


Giulia has an excellent chassis, arguably better than the G70. The front strut is one place where Genesis' budget consciousness was evident. I really wish they had kept the double wishbone of the G80. Giula has that, which accounts for its better more-linear steering feel, especially when you dive hard into a corner and the front end compresses. Too bad Alfa never brought a 6MT version to the States. Before the pandemic, resale on Alfas were abysmal. There were lots of low-miles off-lease Giulia's that were going for cheap. Everybody was fearful of their reliability reputation and few wanted to touch one after warranty expired. Fact is, they are probably nowhere near as horrible as people make them out to be. My wife's Fiat 500X is on its 4th year and the only thing needing warranty work is a loose sunvisor on the passenger side. I told my son, in a couple of years, when the prices drop low enough, we should grab one and turn it into a track bunny.

Then, of course, COVID happened and prices of ALL used cars shot up. Oh well, maybe in a couple more years, when supply chain stabilizes back to how it was.

 

[JCtx]

Oh yes, there's no way that Giulia was going to ever pass that 3.3T G70 at COTA, even with that driver. Maybe at a more technical (shorter) track, but not COTA. The G70 let the Giulia pass on the longest straight, where it could have gotten a sizable lead.

But yes, I'm also disappointed it doesn't have double wishbone up front too. By the way, does anybody know if my 2023 G70 2.0T Sport Prestige has LSD? The window sticker doesn't say anything, but the owner's manual lists BOTH options (open and LSD) for the 2.0T, and I have the top line trim. I don't think so, but wanted to ask. And if there's a way to know if I back up the car on my ramps, like on a label or something (before it falls off. Ha ha). Just got the car yesterday. Thank you.

 

[Volfy]

AFAIK, only 2.0T G70s that came with LSD is the 6MT as part of the Sport package. That said, it isn't impossible to rectify an open diff... ebay is your friend.

Only problem is, lots of Stinger and G70 owners without LSD are looking to do the same, which has bid up prices of used LSDs to be almost as much as what you can buy a brand new one directly from Korea, which is also available on ebay.

What most don't know is that the G70 6MT LSD is exactly the same as the LSD for the 3.3T. Same final drive ratio. I snatched this one for the Stinger, at far lower price than the going rate for 3.3T ones. They don't come up very often, since there aren't that many G70 6MTs around. Patience pays off.

 

[JCtx]

Thank you, but I don't want to mess with my brand new car; at least not now. Ha ha. Just want to know what I have, since I'd have to change the fluid much sooner if it's an LSD, due to the extra crap the clutch discs spew. What is weird is my 2023 owner's manual mentioning LSD on the 2.0T, when 6MTs are no longer made (since 2022). So some 2.0Ts must have LSDs, but maybe in other markets.

Is there a way to know what I have (open or LSD) from somewhere down there, either stamped, or a label? I'd need details of the code, initials, etc., stamped on the diff. Thx.

 

[Volfy]

I would start by looking at the silver label. LSD will look like the one pictured above. Open diff should look like this:

 

[Volfy]

Yeah, changing the diff is a good bit of work. After the Brembo retrofit on the Stinger, I need to replace the rear brake dust shield anyway, which requires removal of the half shafts. I've been putting that off since last Summer. Well, this is one instance where procrastination does pay off. I get to kill two birds with one stone.

Realistically, you won't miss the LSD much on the road in normal driving, probably not even for spirited work. 2.0T isn't a torque monster, even with JB4 in the lower maps, so there is little fear of turning the car into a one-wheel-peeling machine.

I do plan on tracking regularly both the G70 an Stinger, so LSD becomes much more of a pressing need.

 

[Husky]

Thank you, but I don't want to mess with my brand new car; at least not now. Ha ha. Just want to know what I have, since I'd have to change the fluid much sooner if it's an LSD, due to the extra crap the clutch discs spew. What is weird is my 2023 owner's manual mentioning LSD on the 2.0T, when 6MTs are no longer made (since 2022). So some 2.0Ts must have LSDs, but maybe in other markets.

Is there a way to know what I have (open or LSD) from somewhere down there, either stamped, or a label? I'd need details of the code, initials, etc., stamped on the diff. Thx.

A quick burnout (with traction control turned off) should tell you. Add a little sand or water if you have trouble breaking them loose.

 

[JCtx]

Okay, just looked everywhere under my car (no need to lift it, surprisingly), and there's no label anywhere. Only an etched part number: KL2REI1121-W, along with a QR code I'm sure cannot be read (ha ha). The good news I found is there are both a drain and fill plugs, so nice. Plan to change the fluid maybe at the 2nd or 3rd oil change (so 6K or 11K miles, since I'll do the first at 1K or so), to remove all the assembly crap from there. Need to check which fluid it uses, and how much. Cheap insurance IMO.

 

[Slip_Angle]

^ always fun to see track session vids. damn that looks fun. not sure i can get on board with that guy though regarding tracking down and passing the G70. who knows the story with the G70 driver. could have been a newbie who knows how to hammer the throttle but lacks seat time for braking/cornering. also, the G70 clearly backs off to let the Giulia by. could have been running hot, needing to cool down, or a variety of reasons. so the Giulia guy did not pass the G70 in a competitive manner. the G70 gave up the spot willingly. similar to how the Evo guy let both cars fly by. obviously the Evo is a far quicker car than that, so he was backing off for a reason, etc.

not saying the Giulia isn't a great handling car. i know it is, and with the 2.0T is has a nimble front end with super sharp turn in. but the guy was not giving reasonable context to the 'passing of the G70'. it is clear that G70/Evo/Audi guys are waving the Giulia guy past. that R35 driver was obviously a first-timer and not a particularly skilled one at that...

That Q4 is $75K in Canada. Nuts

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[canucklehead604]

^ for a 2.0T? that is nuts. i saw 2.0T's up to $65k CAD, but not $75k...yikes.

a year or two ago there were used and new Giulia's galore, some for great deals. my bro-in-law tried to buy a new 2017 in 2020, when the dealer had 4 model years sitting on the lot (crazy!). he couldn't get his number so he walked, has a Stinger GT now. i just looked on Autotrader and there's a decent Giulia selection but less than there was a couple years ago. i assume AR reduced shipment volume to Canada. perhaps the crazy high prices were scaring off buyers. tough to justify a $65k Giulia with a 2.0T...

 

[Volfy]

If you understand the development history of the Giulia, then you might appreciate just how much a bargain those prices were a few of years ago, especially the up-trim models like Ti/Sport with better bits. See here:

Alfa Romeo’s revolutionary gamble in development

Can five billion euro buy a future for Alfa Romeo?

www.whichcar.com.au

It isn't just about the Quatrifoglio being a Ferrari engine, Maranello also had a heavy hand on the Giulia's chassis development as well. Machionne knew he had a very limited time window, in which to get Ferrari to commit on helping with the Giulia project. He made the best of it and spent the R&D money.

To me, performance is far more than just engine HP and torque. Handling, suspension and overall chassis performance is just as important, if not more so. I carry that opinion into the 2-wheel world as well. I've got 3 road bikes in the garage right now that could all do 0-60 in 3 seconds or less, but I don't remember a single instance where I bothered to jack rabbit launch any of them. That sort of shenanigans just seem crude and pointless. Performance riding/driving is a finesse sport. Fun, to me, is to be had in the corners. Be it on 4 wheels or 2.

As much as I like the G70/Stinger platform (enough to have 2), I really wish they had kept a bit more focus on chassis tuning. As it was, the entire mid-cycle refresh budget was splurged on exterior styling. Understandable, as styling is what sells cars, and they need to build the brand in order to grow the brand. Some corners had to be cut, and it was on stuff most buyers don't see. Neither do they care or really appreciate.

As a daily driver, and in terms of overall refinement and bang-for-buck value, the G70 walks all over the Giulia. Take it out on a track and push it to the limits... the guy in the YT vid is right. Giulia is the better bunny.

 

[Aquineas]

If you understand the development history of the Giulia, then you might appreciate just how much a bargain those prices were a few of years ago, especially the up-trim models like Ti/Sport with better bits. See here:

Alfa Romeo’s revolutionary gamble in development

Can five billion euro buy a future for Alfa Romeo?

www.whichcar.com.au

It isn't just about the Quatrifoglio being a Ferrari engine, Maranello also had a heavy hand on the Giulia's chassis development as well. Machionne knew he had a very limited time window, in which to get Ferrari to commit on helping with the Giulia project. He made the best of it and spent the R&D money.

That completely makes sense to me. My G70 is an H-TRAC V6, but having driven the Giulia back-to-back with a G70, in terms of handling, the Giulia is definitely I would say in a different league than the G70 (and any other sport sedan I've ever driven, if I'm honest). The Giulia reminded me a lot of the last time I drove an S2000.

<snip>
As a daily driver, and in terms of overall refinement and bang-for-buck value, the G70 walks all over the Giulia. Take it out on a track and push it to the limits... the guy in the YT vid is right. Giulia is the better bunny.

This is true as well, except for that last line. If you're not on the track, I'd say the G70 is the better choice. It's all a question of how you intend to use it.

 

[Slip_Angle]

I can see the QV being a special car because the chassis and engine are outstanding but the 2.0 doesn't fit the bill in my estimation. I'm sure it's a good car but doesn't make the special category.

@Aquineas @Volfy - Why don't you have the Giulia today instead of the G70?

 

[Volfy]

@Aquineas @Volfy - Why don't you have the Giulia today instead of the G70?

Because both Stinger and G70 are primarily daily drivers that we intend to keep for a long while. We do AutoX at most 1 Sunday each month and maybe a track day every once in a long while. The other 29-30 days of the month, I'm more likely to be hypermiling on my way to and from work on weekdays and chauffering family on weekends. Stinger/G70 are far better all arounders than the Giulia.

It's all about compromises.

 

[Lionorion]

This looks cool:

Hyundai N Vision 74 First Look: Build It Now

Hydrogen fuel cell EVs aren't particularly sexy, or at least, they weren't. Say hello to the Hyundai N Vision 74 concept, a high-performance hydrogen fuel cell-

www.motortrend.com

 

[Aquineas]

I can see the QV being a special car because the chassis and engine are outstanding but the 2.0 doesn't fit the bill in my estimation. I'm sure it's a good car but doesn't make the special category.

@Aquineas @Volfy - Why don't you have the Giulia today instead of the G70?

Simple, I love my G70!! It's more comfortable, fast-enough, has all the tech features I want, is unique, is gorgeous, I got it for a great price, and under no circumstances could I ever be induced to buy an Alfa Romeo. I'm just being honest with regards to the handling; make no mistake about it, the Giulia out-handles the G70. Which... doesn't mean I want that type of ride all the time.

To slightly contradict myself though, my last ICE car is probably going to be a factory delivery C8 Corvette, which is a much firmer ride than the G70, but for me factory delivery of a Corvette is a bucket-list thing.

 

[Volfy]

Giulia's 2.0T (280HP 306 lb-ft) is actually tuned a lot more aggressively than the G70's 2.0T (252HP 260 lb-ft). It's more like what Genesis should have done from the factory. It's patently unfair that cars like the Elantra N is rated to 276HP 289 lb-ft (even higher when you activated the N-Grin boost).

Not to say that situation isn't easily rectified with an addition of things like JB4, but credit should be given to Alfa Romeo for imparting the Giulia with a clear tilt toward the enthusiast market. The topic of Giulia was brought in the context of track worthiness. Objectively, it is a better track car right out of the showroom floor.

Not every driver wants a big engine. Big HP might get you down the 1/4 mile in a big hurry, but tossed into a corner, a big engine is still just dead weight. It is why I never liked - and will never own - muscle cars. A Dodge Challenger with a honking 6.2L Hemi-V8 dances in the canyons with the grace of a NFL linebacker in a pink tutu.

If I really have my druthers and can afford to keep a dedicated sportscar around, it'd probably be a super lightweight RWD preferably with a naturally aspirated engine. It's why Mazda still sells boatloads of Miata's every year, and why Toyota new GR86 is so sought after (local dealer here want $12k over MSRP). A couple of year ago, a barely used Alfa Romeo 4C came up for sale locally here for around $50k. It took a might large dose of self control to keep me from going down there and signing on the dotted line. Now, that... would be the ultimate track bunny.

 

[NLJ]

I've enjoyed my 2.0T Prestige in the past 4 years and have even gotten 3 tickets with it.
But I still miss my TL SH-AWD for the raw power it had.
Ordered a 2023 M340i so hopefully I will have one last go at an excellent ICE vehicle before they become unicorns!

 

[Slip_Angle]

I've enjoyed my 2.0T Prestige in the past 4 years and have even gotten 3 tickets with it.
But I still miss my TL SH-AWD for the raw power it had.
Ordered a 2023 M340i so hopefully I will have one last go at an excellent ICE vehicle before they become unicorns!

A "little" bump in power for sure. M340i is a solid choice!