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Other cool cars like the G70

jetrep said:
I don't feel the need to bash the Type-S as I suspect it's probably a great car in many ways but a performance car it is not. Still there will probably be many fools who pay over MSRP to own it because of the badge.

Honda peaked with the S2000.
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Unfortunately the cars the TLX competes with are all great cars in addition to having good performance. Even for Honda loyalists, there isn't much of a benefit to a Type S over say a Honda Accord 2.0T when the latter costs thousands less, is almost as fast, lighter, far roomier, and has more tech (i.e. a HUD). Quite frankly if the Accord offered SH-AWD then the TLX wouldn't even have a reason to exist.

It's like Honda just phoned it in on the Type S because they know their brand has so many hardcore loyalists that they'll eat anything up, just like how so many of them continue to pay tens of thousands beyond MSRP for a Civic Type R.
 
Backslack said:
Unfortunately the cars the TLX competes with are all great cars in addition to having good performance. Even for Honda loyalists, there isn't much of a benefit to a Type S over say a Honda Accord 2.0T when the latter costs thousands less, is almost as fast, lighter, far roomier, and has more tech (i.e. a HUD). Quite frankly if the Accord offered SH-AWD then the TLX wouldn't even have a reason to exist.

It's like Honda just phoned it in on the Type S because they know their brand has so many hardcore loyalists that they'll eat anything up, just like how so many of them continue to pay tens of thousands beyond MSRP for a Civic Type R.
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I agree with everything you've said. That sure seems like a lot of money for a FWD based design. I'm still confident it's a good car but not a fun one and not really a car worth buying over something like the Accord. Fanboys seem to lose their minds over anything that has Type in the name so they'll buy it without question and overpay for the privilege which sadly results in them designing even more mediocre cars in the future.

Frankly I'm surprised they even developed the car as I'm sure their bread and butter is SUVs. I suppose it was an exercise in trying to get people excited about the Honda/Acura brands but that's going to be a total fail. The new NSX was also a fail. They need to reboot the S2000 if they want legitimate enthusiast attention but rest assured they'd screw that up too.
 
jetrep said:
I agree with everything you've said. That sure seems like a lot of money for a FWD based design. I'm still confident it's a good car but not a fun one and not really a car worth buying over something like the Accord. Fanboys seem to lose their minds over anything that has Type in the name so they'll buy it without question and overpay for the privilege which sadly results in them designing even more mediocre cars in the future.
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JDM fanboys used to mock BMW M and Merc AMG for slapping their badges on just about everything, but it's funny seeing them eat it up when Hondacura does the same thing.

Type S | Overview

Discover the high-performance Acura Type S. Explore all Type S models, view the gallery and check out the racing anime series.
www.acura.com www.acura.com
 
^ yup. the MDX Type S is how the thing should have come in standard trim. that MDX should have about 355hp as standard, not as a 'Type S'. even with that power it is probably nowhere near the top of its class, so i'd pull back from calling it the 'apex of performance'.
 
Black genesis badges emblems letters lettering chrome delete
Soichiro Honda is rolling in his grave knowing the engineering focused company he built is now a marketing company.
 
My favoritest story from the autobiography of Soichiro Honda, Mr. Honda.

As a boy in his distant village automobiles were unknown. One day he and a few of his little friends were playing outside. A dirt road came through the small village. They saw some smoke in the distance. What could it be? A DRAGON? All had heard of dragons though none had seen one. Could this be it? The smoke and noise came closer, finally into view. It was an automobile (likely a Model T). The chugging and smoke and smell paused as the boys jumped behind a stone wall for protection. The clatter and disturbance paused before moving on through the rutted road. As it disappeared the boys crept out from the hiding place. Soichiro knelt over the pool of oil belched onto the dirt. He leaned close and inhaled. "I was intoxicated" he wrote.

I think that says it all.
 
Slip_Angle said:
Yeah... they sure did. It's a good looking car but so many broken fundamentals and Acura over hyped this car way too much. Seems they also tried to control the narrative.. Not cool.

I wanted to drive one but when I went to the dealership they fed me a ridiculous amount of BS. Like.. the car has ceased production. It's special order only. It may only be available again in 2023. It's a special - exclusive car, like the NSX. This was all an attempt to get me to buy the one they had... I was playing dumb.

Total fail
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Totally agree. The Acura TLX S adverts are writing checks they cannot cash all day long. It's not really what the enthusiast world was expecting. Honda has got to get past their fear of power, Honda seems to think there is something inherently wrong with plenty of go, I am sure it is a corporate philosophy. SO even their sporty flagships are underpowered - spent a ton of money on R&D, and they kill it at the end by not making it full-time AWD and underpowering it, making it slower than ALL of the competition. Not a good look right out of the gate. So dumb of Honda. Boost just a bit more and you could pull 375-385 out of that engine, make it competitive in the seg. Got to be 4.7-4.6 tested 0-60 as a basement level in this segment, imo.

But perhaps Acura is just like 'eff it, ICE is gone in 5-10 years, why develop a performance engine for $$$$$ when we need to be concentrating on electric' - Porsche, Tesla, Ford, Dodge, Chevy, so many makers are getting a jump on electric powertrains and vehicles and Honda is, well, I am not sure what they are doing. Waffling it seems.
 
average joe said:
Simple and long-term reliability of a naturally aspirated V8.
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Problem is that I don't know who would even buy an IS500 when the GS-F, which is mechanically the same vehicle, sold like crap. They had to put cash on the hood to get rid of them. Of course the GS-F started at $85K, but if the IS500 is around $65K as the press speculates then it'll also be DOA.

Toyota/Lexus is killing off all their V8's- even the new Tundra and Land Cruiser had them replaced with turbo V6's. IS500 seems like it exists only as a token of apology.
 
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Backslack said:
Problem is that I don't know who would even buy an IS500 when the GS-F, which is mechanically the same vehicle, sold like crap. They had to put cash on the hood to get rid of them. Of course the GS-F started at $85K, but if the IS500 is around $65K as the press speculates then it'll also be DOA.

Toyota/Lexus is killing off all their V8's- even the new Tundra and Land Cruiser had them replaced with turbo V6's. IS500 seems like it exists only as a token of apology.
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I have heard speculation it could sell for 55K. If so, very intriguing!
 
tarhoosier said:
My favoritest story from the autobiography of Soichiro Honda, Mr. Honda.

As a boy in his distant village automobiles were unknown. One day he and a few of his little friends were playing outside. A dirt road came through the small village. They saw some smoke in the distance. What could it be? A DRAGON? All had heard of dragons though none had seen one. Could this be it? The smoke and noise came closer, finally into view. It was an automobile (likely a Model T). The chugging and smoke and smell paused as the boys jumped behind a stone wall for protection. The clatter and disturbance paused before moving on through the rutted road. As it disappeared the boys crept out from the hiding place. Soichiro knelt over the pool of oil belched onto the dirt. He leaned close and inhaled. "I was intoxicated" he wrote.

I think that says it all.
Click to expand...
Great story! My favorite story regarding Mr Shoichiro Honda is when he shut up the GM brass by taking one of their own cars and proving that something they said was impossible was indeed possible.
The TLDR; version, when Honda came out with CVCC for their engines (which let Honda engines pass tough new emissions standards without a catalytic converter), Ford and Chrsyler licensed it, but GM in all their 70s era hubris declared:
"Well, I have looked at this design, and while it might work on some little toy motorcycle engine... I see no potential for it on one of our GM car engines."
Click to expand...

Well, this ticked-off Mr Honda, so he bought a 1973 Impala with a 350 engine and had it sent to Japan, where they proceeded to prove that over-confident GM executive wrong. They took GM's engine, replaced the manifold and the cylinder heads and the carburetor, and proceeded to defy the GM claim. That's when Americans, if they weren't already worried about being complacent with their success and their dominant sales success (GM alone sold 44 percent of all vehicles sold in 1973) malaise-error milquetoast engineering, should have gotten a wake-up call to get their shit together.
 
Black genesis badges emblems letters lettering chrome delete
Aquineas said:
Great story! My favorite story regarding Mr Shoichiro Honda is when he shut up the GM brass by taking one of their own cars and proving that something they said was impossible was indeed possible.
The TLDR; version, when Honda came out with CVCC for their engines (which let Honda engines pass tough new emissions standards without a catalytic converter), Ford and Chrsyler licensed it, but GM in all their 70s era hubris declared:


Well, this ticked-off Mr Honda, so he bought a 1973 Impala with a 350 engine and had it sent to Japan, where they proceeded to prove that over-confident GM executive wrong. They took GM's engine, replaced the manifold and the cylinder heads and the carburetor, and proceeded to defy the GM claim. That's when Americans, if they weren't already worried about being complacent with their success and their dominant sales success (GM alone sold 44 percent of all vehicles sold in 1973) malaise-error milquetoast engineering, should have gotten a wake-up call to get their shit together.
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I have thought of Honda as not an automobile company but as an engine company. Creative and advanced engines of all sizes from those the size of your fist in a yard whacker to giant marine engines as big as a house, and all between. Create the most advanced engine for the purpose and then co-ordinate with the rest of the departments for a sharp appearance, fine interior and all the rest. It starts with the engine, or at least it used to.
 
tarhoosier said:
I have thought of Honda as not an automobile company but as an engine company. Creative and advanced engines of all sizes from those the size of your fist in a yard whacker to giant marine engines as big as a house, and all between. Create the most advanced engine for the purpose and then co-ordinate with the rest of the departments for a sharp appearance, fine interior and all the rest. It starts with the engine, or at least it used to.
Click to expand...
I am of the same belief (as I suppose as is every engineer in Munich and Stuttgart, and more recently Dearborn and wherever the LS derivatives are designed). I suspect (fear?) that electric vehicles will democratize performance somewhat.
 
Backslack said:
Problem is that I don't know who would even buy an IS500 when the GS-F, which is mechanically the same vehicle, sold like crap. They had to put cash on the hood to get rid of them. Of course the GS-F started at $85K, but if the IS500 is around $65K as the press speculates then it'll also be DOA.

Toyota/Lexus is killing off all their V8's- even the new Tundra and Land Cruiser had them replaced with turbo V6's. IS500 seems like it exists only as a token of apology.
Click to expand...
Just confirmed 56K base!!!
 
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