Saw The Equus at The NY Auto Show

[DavidNJ]

Is is nice, inside and out. It has the options missing in the Genesis: ventilated, fully adjustable passenger seat, pneumatic suspension, front camera. A few that probably should have been options on the Genesis, such as blind spot warning.

Not as avant garde as some of its price competitors in styling (5-series, E-class, GS, M56, etc.) it is probably as attractive as any of them and more practical than most. Controls are well laid out. Interior materials are very good. Trunk is probably the best in class. They said the automatically adapting cruise control uses microwaves like the European systems in contrast with the less effective laser systems used by some Japanese manufacturers.

They said there would be three option groups with pricing between $50k and $60k. That probably means a car with all the goodies other than 4-passenger seating will go for around $56k. The base model will go for around $50k, however we don't know what that model will be missing.

They said the 4-passenger seating is targeted at the limo rental market. I can easily see limo services using this car.

If there is any complaint it would be that the car seemed a little bland, like a generic luxury sedan rather than a specific brand. As a buyer in the price range I can easily see it being a preferred vehicle. However, it lacks the brand image which is important to many buyers in this segment.

 

[ilovemygenesis]

Is is nice, inside and out. It has the options missing in the Genesis: ventilated, fully adjustable passenger seat, pneumatic suspension, front camera. A few that probably should have been options on the Genesis, such as blind spot warning.

Not as avant garde as some of its price competitors in styling (5-series, E-class, GS, M56, etc.) it is probably as attractive as any of them and more practical than most. Controls are well laid out. Interior materials are very good. Trunk is probably the best in class. They said the automatically adapting cruise control uses microwaves like the European systems in contrast with the less effective laser systems used by some Japanese manufacturers.

They said there would be three option groups with pricing between $50k and $60k. That probably means a car with all the goodies other than 4-passenger seating will go for around $56k. The base model will go for around $50k, however we don't know what that model will be missing.

They said the 4-passenger seating is targeted at the limo rental market. I can easily see limo services using this car.

If there is any complaint it would be that the car seemed a little bland, like a generic luxury sedan rather than a specific brand. As a buyer in the price range I can easily see it being a preferred vehicle. However, it lacks the brand image which is important to many buyers in this segment.

I saw the Equus at the car show on Friday as well, same observations here, i was impressed with the look of the car, similar to the LS in terms of size and overall appeal. Nothing too distinctive about the car honestly it looks just like the Genesis only with a couple or more features, but for $55K for the base and $65K for all options, it's a great alternative IMO

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe I am wrong, but I can't imagine they will sell very many 4-seater versions with the rear console in the US. The 4-seater is more geared to an owner who sits in the rear seat and has a chauffeur, and those kind of people can easily afford a MB or need some kind of vehicle that is bullet-proofed.

I am not even sure that the 4-seater version makes sense for limos, since it is very inconvenient to have to exit the car via only one door (the rear center console makes it harder to exit on the other side). Anyone who has ridden a limo in NYC knows that you don't want to be always forced to enter or exit on the side you are sitting on.

 

[DavidNJ]

I saw the Equus at the car show on Friday as well, same observations here, i was impressed with the look of the car, similar to the LS in terms of size and overall appeal. Nothing too distinctive about the car honestly it looks just like the Genesis only with a couple or more features, but for $55K for the base and $65K for all options, it's a great alternative IMO

It does seem like a stiff premium over the Genesis for the few extra features. I rather pay $2500-$4000 more for a Genesis with those features. That may turn out to be a marketing mistake for Hyundai. It would appear their engineering and design is running a bit a head of their product management and marketing departments.

Note: Infiniti seems to have the same problem: good product sometimes missing important features. For example the new Nissan Patrol based QX56 which is only available as a boulevard cruiser, and the new M-series with long hidden and vulnerable noses and tails without parking sensors. The M also has a very small truck opening.

 

[imperial4ever]

I saw the Equus at the car show on Friday as well, same observations here, i was impressed with the look of the car, similar to the LS in terms of size and overall appeal. Nothing too distinctive about the car honestly it looks just like the Genesis only with a couple or more features, but for $55K for the base and $65K for all options, it's a great alternative IMO

In defense of the Equus I do not believe there is one luxury car that competes with the Equus that is a "stand-out" in terms of design or style. To me it comes down to the attention to Details and I believe the Equus has hit the mark. For example the subtle use of chrome molding around the front and rear intakes. The Alcantara on the roof pillars, headlining and vanity mirrors covers, The raised hood plaque instead of the hood ornament with the word Equus insribed and the LED turn signal indicators. The adjustable seat cushion is also awesome for those with long legs who want thigh support. And of course the price. I love the Equus logo on the steering wheel but do not like it repeated on the shift lever handle. I think a wood and leather treatment would have been more suited. Cannot wait to see it in the showroom and get my hands on the glossy brochure! I wish we could get some pics of the 5 seat version with the 3 abreast seating in the rear. That would be what I would buy.

 

[ajls09873]

Same logic.
MB S-Class/BMW 7 are just like the E-Class/BMW 5 only with a couple or more features.

 

[jwaters943]

The more I think about it, the more I realize that if Hyundai added the features found on the Equus to the Genesis it would likely cost nearly as much. At first it doesn't seem like much, but when you look closer you find there are a lot of small, but significant feature content and material differences.

-Adjustable Air Suspension
-Color center gauge display
-Abundant real wood trim & french stitched leather on the dash/center console armrest/steering wheel airbag cover, etc.
-Alcantara suede headliner
-Acoustic laminated side/rear window glass
-Heated and cooled front and rear seats
-Power rear side window shades
-Power folding/reclining rear seats
-LED accented headlights
-Massaging 12 way power drivers seat
-Rear climate controls
-Rear screen/dvd player
-Front/side view camera
-LED ambient interior lighting in the door handles and under the rear seats
-Power closing doors
-Auto up/down windows front and rear
-Power folding side view mirrors
-Rear reading lights/vanity mirrors
-Chrome wheels
-Heated steering wheel

These things add up quick. In fact, considering that the current V8 Genesis w/ Tech Package goes for $43k, I'd be willing to bet all of these features combined would add at $10-12k to the cost of a Genesis. Factor in the extra size and the premium dealership experience you're supposed to get with the Equus (dealers must go through specialized training on the car before they're allowed to sell it, they will pick up your car and give you a Genesis or Equus loaner vehicle while it's in the shop, comes w/ an iPad owners manual along w/ app(s) to optimize the ownership experience and allow you too schedule maintenance appointments, etc.) and the pricing seems quite fair to me. *shrug* I guess they could have de-contented it from the KDM model like they did w/ the Genesis to keep the price down, but then we'd have a whole other set of gripes.

 

[DavidNJ]

-Adjustable Air Suspension--Already on the Genesis in other markets...maybe $1500
-Color center gauge display--Not needed
-Abundant real wood trim & french stitched leather on the dash/center--Genesis premium is fine by me. Equus didn't seem any better. console armrest/steering wheel airbag cover, etc.
-Alcantara suede headlinerMaybe a $400 option, offered on other brands, not that essential
-Acoustic laminated side/rear window glass--I think the Genesis already has this
-Heated and cooled front and rear seats--There is no other luxury car that only cools the driver's seat. Ventilated seats are getting to be common in this price range (even the Maxima). Heated rear seats are on my minivans/SUVs and cost a few hundred at most.
-Power rear side window shadesA $350 option on about half the cars in the Genesis price range
-Power folding/reclining rear seats--about as useless as it gets
-LED accented headlights--competition in the useless category
-Massaging 12 way power drivers seat--I have this...the massager is nice, but not worth that much. Was part of the drive dynamic seat, which the Hyundai's don't have
-Rear climate controls--fine, this can be an Equus exclusive. Will everyone who finds this a must have please line up, as few competitors have it.
-Rear screen/dvd playerThis will be an Equus option, common in SUVs, and usually dealer installed in cars
-Front/side view cameraa truck option at Infiniti. In the Genesis in other markets, adds may be $200
-LED ambient interior lighting in the door handles and under the rear seats--more competition in the useless category
-Power closing doors--if it wasn't part of a package how many 7 series and S classes would have it? My $50k car doesn't need it.

In the end, they are not putting the stuff on the Genesis for fear of hurting Equus sales (they actually said that outright). That policy fails to see the real competition and in business is nearly always self destructive.

 

[jwaters943]

It seems to me your post could have been summed up with two words, 'I disagree'. I don't want to get into a pissing match so I'll just agree to disagree with you.

BTW, why are you here? I'm honestly curious and not trying to be rude. I'm just wondering why you participate here? You have something negative to say about every Hyundai vehicle, at least that has been my experience with you thus far, and from your profile it does not appear that you own a Genesis.

 

[Mark_888]

Acoustic laminated side/rear window glass--I think the Genesis already has this

I know the Genesis has this on the front windshield, but not on the side windows like the Equus. Not sure about rear glass on the Genesis.

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[Mark_888]

These things add up quick. In fact, considering that the current V8 Genesis w/ Tech Package goes for $43k, I'd be willing to bet all of these features combined would add at $10-12k to the cost of a Genesis. Factor in the extra size and the premium dealership experience you're supposed to get with the Equus (dealers must go through specialized training on the car before they're allowed to sell it, they will pick up your car and give you a Genesis or Equus loaner vehicle while it's in the shop, comes w/ an iPad owners manual along w/ app(s) to optimize the ownership experience and allow you too schedule maintenance appointments, etc.) and the pricing seems quite fair to me. *shrug* I guess they could have de-contented it from the KDM model like they did w/ the Genesis to keep the price down, but then we'd have a whole other set of gripes.

I think your math is wrong. You forgot to subtract $25,000 from the perceived value of the Equus because of its disgustingly soft air suspension, as opposed to the firm suspension that you love on the Genesis. I don't see how anyone who likes the Genesis would even consider the Equus, since the driving experience is so different between them.

Regarding the iPad, you can't be serious. It was just a publicity stunt to get the Equus name in the press on the launch day of the iPad (it apparently worked). Equus owners are going to pick their phone and call the service advisor if they have a problem.

 

[DavidNJ]

The Equus has a sport mode. I believe the pneumatic suspension is basically the same offered on the Genesis in other markets.

My issues is we don't want a 205" car, we want a 190" one. To us the Genesis completes with both the lower tier (G37, ES350, CTS, MKS) luxury cars that size and the upper tier (E-class, 5 Series, A6, XF, M37/56, G350/480). However, features like a full power, ventilated front passenger seat are available on ALL of those competitors.

At $55k the Equus will be head-to-head with a fully equipment M37 AWD (whose deluxe touring interior is a match for the Equus), Audi A6, and some of the others depending on options.

 

[Mark_888]

The Equus has a sport mode. I believe the pneumatic suspension is basically the same offered on the Genesis in other markets.

The US Genesis supposedly lacks the air suspension specifically because HMA thought it was way too soft for the US market (or at least for the US automotive press). While I would probably be satisfied with the Korean Genesis sport mode, many people on this forum would not be (if you believe them when they say the love the Genesis 2009 suspension).

 

[jwaters943]

I think your math is wrong. You forgot to subtract $25,000 from the perceived value of the Equus because of its disgustingly soft air suspension, as opposed to the firm suspension that you love on the Genesis. I don't see how anyone who likes the Genesis would even consider the Equus, since the driving experience is so different between them.

Regarding the iPad, you can't be serious. It was just a publicity stunt to get the Equus name in the press on the launch day of the iPad (it apparently worked). Equus owners are going to pick their phone and call the service advisor if they have a problem.

You don't get a lot of things, but lets not get into that now. And I haven't driven a Equus, and neither have you I'd bet, so why mention the ride when it's not yet known just how "disgustingly soft" it is, especially in Sport mode.

As for the iPad, I don't think that by itself the iPad is a selling feature. I merely referenced it because it is one more small difference that that helps set the Genesis and Equus apart, and I thought it was kind of interesting, but to each their own.

 

[jwaters943]

The US Genesis supposedly lacks the air suspension specifically because HMA thought it was way too soft for the US market (or at least for the US automotive press). While I would probably be satisfied with the Korean Genesis sport mode, many people on this forum would not be (if you believe them when they say the love the Genesis 2009 suspension).

It was not the air suspension specifically that Hyundai felt was too soft, it was the suspension tuning in general. The non-air suspension in Korea is quite a bit softer than our setup.

 

[Mark_888]

...why mention the ride when it's not yet known just how "disgustingly soft" it is, especially in Sport mode.

I am sure that the Equus suspension is not disgustingly soft for me, but I am tired of the hypocrisy of those who will not tolerate any criticism of the 2009 Genesis suspension, but at the same time are gushing over the Equus. One cannot have it both ways, unless that person is just a lacky for any HMA product put in front of them.

 

[jwaters943]

I am sure that the Equus suspension is not disgustingly soft for me, but I am tired of the hypocrisy of those who will not tolerate any criticism of the 2009 Genesis suspension, but at the same time are gushing over the Equus. One cannot have it both ways, unless that person is just a lacky for any HMA product put in front of them.

Again, I haven't driven the Equus and neither have you. Maybe I will feel differently once I drive it. In any case, ride quality is quite simply not my number one priority/consideration in a new car purchase so long as it rides reasonably well on most surfaces I'm happy. I love both the M37/56 Sport and the LS460 in spite of their obvious differences. Does that make me weird? Maybe so. Or maybe I'm just not as sensitive to the subtle nuances/differences in ride quality between cars as some people. I don't consider this to be hypocrisy.

 

[DavidNJ]

It depends on where in the country you live, the condition of the roads, your driving style, and what you drive otherwise. I should point out that a modern stock car run VERY soft springs. The front cross member under the engine is now a sold 3/4" steel bar instead of a 2"x3" tube because the nose drops so much under braking. The ride as smooth as a limo on the race track.

But the nose scrapes along the ground mid corner increasing aero forces and lowering CG. The shocks dynamically control weight transfer on corner exit keeping the inside rear loaded so you can put power to the ground. In the end they turn in the middle and come out like gang busters. Handling and ride can be a funny thing.

 

[ajls09873]

if you check its spec, it is not compete with M37.
http://www.hyundainews.com/Auto_Show_News/New_York_Auto_Show/2011_Equus/Press_Release.asp
its spec (size, hp, roominess, gadget, etc) surpassing 2010 Lexus LS460.

Technically surpass 2010 Lexus LS460, Only lack of brand premium.

 

[DavidNJ]

A Sonata, Accord, Camry, Altima, G37, GS, M, Genesis, XF, 5-Series, A6, E-class, Fuzion, Malibu etc are all with an inch or two in size, but they don't all complete with each other!

Virtually no serious S-class or 7-series buyer will even venture into a Hyundai dealership for an Equus, let alone buy one.

Maybe a very, very small percentage of LS460 buyers might. However, it is quite possible the Lexus will be cheaper on a lease.

However, buyers of other cars at the same price may consider it an alternative. M-series Infinitis are definitely competitors for both Genesis and Equus, although more G37 buyers may be looking at the Genesis.

Price is virtually always the first criteria in making products competition for each other, unless the price is so low as not to be a factor (e.g., you don't big a restaurant based on the price of the desert).