Saw The Equus at The NY Auto Show

[ajls09873]

A Sonata, Accord, Camry, Altima, G37, GS, M, Genesis, XF, 5-Series, A6, E-class, Fuzion, Malibu etc are all with an inch or two in size, but they don't all complete with each other!

Virtually no serious S-class or 7-series buyer will even venture into a Hyundai dealership for an Equus, let alone buy one.

Maybe a very, very small percentage of LS460 buyers might. However, it is quite possible the Lexus will be cheaper on a lease.

However, buyers of other cars at the same price may consider it an alternative. M-series Infinitis are definitely competitors for both Genesis and Equus, although more G37 buyers may be looking at the Genesis.

Price is virtually always the first criteria in making products competition for each other, unless the price is so low as not to be a factor (e.g., you don't big a restaurant based on the price of the desert).

Not only size, but also HP, roominess, noise control, gadgets, warranty, etc on par with competiotors.
Hyundai undercut the Equus/Genesis price than competiotors. But, it is not mean their cars are automatically downgrade. it is same nonsense as someone claims that genesis compete with nissan maxima.
In this forum, many former cadilac, lexus, BMW owners moved to Genesis sedan.

 

[DavidNJ]

The Genesis is the same price as the Maxima, has similar features (actually the Maxima has a ventilated passenger seat!) and really, aren't much different in prestige.

It would compete with the CTS (same price), ES350 and to some extent GS350 (one ugly pup), It could be a 3 series or low end 5-series alternative. The 3-series buyer would have been considering other 3-series alternatives. The 5-series buyer would have been stretched financially.

This is the same situation Lexus and Infiniiti had in 1990. Lexus offered an 7-series alternative for 20% less than a 5-series. Infiniti took the better part of a decade or more to find its footing.

Hyundai is making good product. Just the Genesis is missing some features and the Equus may be a bit overpriced.

 

[ajls09873]

Overprice?
Equus is lowest price car in its market (MB S-Class/BMW 7/ Audi A8/ Lexus LS/ full size, high-end flagship market).
Also, Their product is technically NOT inferior (surpass) than its market leader.

 

[ajls09873]

This car price is a more than $98,000 in Korea.

It directly compete with MB S-class/BMW 7/Lexus LS, and Equus outselling them.

In US, Hyundai have not brand premium. So, they undercut the price.

Equus is lowest price car in its market.

And Hyundai USA offers Equus as world lowest price. (Korean jealous to US consumers).

In US, If hyundai have brand premium, Then, they never offers this car as that price.

China, Middle east, Korea market Equus price is more than double or triple than US market.

 

[ajls09873]

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Hyundai_Equus

 

[DavidNJ]

Ok, a BMW 750Li is 180,000,000 won, or $160k in Korea. The same model is $86-100k in the US (my Korean isn't good enough to determine what is standard).

On that basis the Equus is nearly the same price ratio in the US. However, in the US it isn't an established brand in that class nor is the national brand. If it was a Cadillac it might sell at that price: Cadillac Equus. In two years Hyundai can buy the Cadillac brand.

They can sell 1500 at that price. However, to be competitive it would have to be lower. On a lease, it will be more than a 5-series, LS, or M Infiniti.

Note that isn't a new problem. 3-series BMWs have often been cheaper on lease than an Infiniti G35/37. We were looking at the then new Audi A6 when the dealer (who sold both brands) showed us that the 5-series was cheaper on a lease than the 15% lower MSRP A6. At the time that was $42k vs $48k, 12 years ago.

It took several generations of the G-series Infiniti and its predecessor until they were competitive in their price class. It also took several generations of Sonatas. That the Genesis and Equus are competitive write off the bat is a strong statement. They are competitive in a class where close to a dozen brands are competitive at around the same price.

Acura is an established brand with dedicated dealerships and sells all its products in the $25-50k range. Ask an Acura dealer how easy it is to sell a made in Japan RL.

 

[ajls09873]

BMW 750Li is 180,000,000 won?
No. price is much cheaper. Your mentioned price is is full loaded, full option, highend trim price.
And Korea's car import tariff is only 8%.
smaller than EU's import tariff 10%.
That ridiculous price made by seller.

 

[ajls09873]

BTW, the product itself is standout than its market leader.
Only brand is not premium.

 

[DavidNJ]

Right off the BMW Korea website. It does appear to be loaded though.

 

[jwaters943]

A Sonata, Accord, Camry, Altima, G37, GS, M, Genesis, XF, 5-Series, A6, E-class, Fuzion, Malibu etc are all with an inch or two in size, but they don't all complete with each other!

Virtually no serious S-class or 7-series buyer will even venture into a Hyundai dealership for an Equus, let alone buy one.

Maybe a very, very small percentage of LS460 buyers might. However, it is quite possible the Lexus will be cheaper on a lease.

However, buyers of other cars at the same price may consider it an alternative. M-series Infinitis are definitely competitors for both Genesis and Equus, although more G37 buyers may be looking at the Genesis.

Price is virtually always the first criteria in making products competition for each other, unless the price is so low as not to be a factor (e.g., you don't big a restaurant based on the price of the desert).

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Since the economic collapse, it has become passe in some social circles to flaunt one's wealth. While there are no doubt MANY buyers who would never consider a Hyundai luxury car, Hyundai has touted that 40% of Genesis sales are from former Lexus, MB, Porsche and BMW owners, and that 90% are first time Hyundai buyers. Source: http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6391244/news/2009-hyundai-genesis-sales-on-target/index.html

Searching this forum you will see that many here, myself included, came from another luxury brand. http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=353

Given the Equus' claimed higher caliber sales/service experience I think Hyundai should have no trouble meeting their very modest sales goals.

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[jwaters943]

Korean comparison test (Equus VS460 vs. LS460L vs 740Li)

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxhbN_ks4Hc&feature=related"]YouTube- [Comparison Test]EQUUS VS460 vs LS460L vs 740Li[/nomedia]

Highlights:

The Equus was the most expensive car in the test
The Equus was slowest to 60mph (the KDM car they tested is rated at only 366hp for some reason, even with the extra 19hp it's still a 6 second 0-60 car)
The Equus falls in between the Lexus and BMW in terms of overall handling/braking, but displayed the least amount of body roll
The Equus was the quietest vehicle in the test (by a small margin)

Not too shabby IMO....definitely seems like a worthwhile addition to the segment, especially if it costs around $55-$60k.

 

[DavidNJ]

Just looked at the first entries on that thread: Chrysler 300, 16 year old Mercedes, 12 year old BMW, Azera, Camry, 2005 Dodge Dakota.

Did you mean a different thread?

Being less ostentatious generally means getting your Porsche in gray instead of orange.

 

[jwaters943]

It's a very unscientific thread, but here's a listing of Genesis owners who came from other luxury brands:

06 GS430
92 Merc. 400E
97 528i
06 M45
87 Acura Legend
06 530i
02 745i
07 Acura MDX
?? 528i
?? Infiniti Q45
08 535i
02 C Class
07 Acura TL
08 Cadillac DTS
03 530i
06 330i
06 Infiniti M
04 Volvo S60R
06 Saab 9-5
06 330i
?? BMW 5 Series
07 Acura RDX
07 Acura MDX
04 LS430
?? LS430
?? Merc. C230 Kompressor
07 Saab 9-3 Aero
01 Merc E320
01 Merc. C320
04 325i
08 GS430
06 M35 Sport
06 330i
06 M35
00 740iL
01 E320
98 CL 600
95 Fleetwood
04 Acura TL
07 335i Coupe
?? Acura TL
07 Escalade
01 Lincoln LS
98 A4

Regardless of age (not everyone gets rid of their cars every few years), there were plenty of buyers who came from other luxury brands which is all I was trying to say. I'm sure Hyundai will manage to steal a few sales from other $60k luxury cars out there. Most buyers probably won't cross shop it to a large extent with a loaded S Class or 750i, but a $60k E-Class or older base S-Class, as well as the GS/LS, MKS, and upcoming XTS, why not?

 

[DavidNJ]

So, you are making my point?

Mainly older luxury cars or cars around the same price point. There is one current 5-series and 3 recent Infiniti M's. That would be about right and represent a relatively small portion of sales.

With the price increase with their new model, more Infiniti M-buyers may consider the Genesis. However, they would expect a ventilated, fully adjustable passenger seat and a price advantage. They probably wouldn't consider the Equus since the size is no advantage and price is similar.

Note, the lack of AWD, available on most major competitors, is probably an issue.

 

[jwaters943]

I should have clarified. I agree w/ part of your post and don't with another part. I don't agree that the LS will likely be cheaper to lease than the Equus, especially if the Genesis/GS lease rates are anything to go by. I also don't think it's completely unreasonable to think at least *some* S Class/7 Series owners will cross shop the Equus. Sure, price is an issue for most buyers and it probably won't be a huge chunk of people, but it's entirely possible. Sal, the owner of this site, currently drives a 7 Series and he is considering the Equus, at least he was last I heard.

 

[DavidNJ]

If Hyundai gets 100 conquest sales from S-class/7-series/A8/XJ that would be alot. A conquest sale would be someone who was otherwise buying or leasing a new car getting the Equus instead.

A more likely buyer is an Avalon/Maxima/G35/ES350 owner who wants an LS480 but doesn't want to pay the tariff. The Genesis may also get some 5-series, E-class, Infiniti M, and GS buyers who don't want to spend the money on the name brand.

Other than SUVs, I can't think of any other brand primarily selling under $22k also successfully selling products over $40k. The exception are SUVs, pickups, and the Corvette. Mazda tried the Millennium and failed. Subaru tried the SVX; don't see that around anymore.

The Genesis and Equus are good cars. To be successful they have to offer an extreme, Costco-sized, price/benefit advantage with a minimal number of flaws.

The Genesis is ok with the price, only missing a couple of important features (passenger seat adjustment/ventilation, etc.). The Equus would have to be less expensive than the indicated price have the same advantage.

 

[DavidNJ]

Only about 300 Hyundai dealers are expected to represent the Equus line, less than 40 percent of the Korean maker’s total U.S. distribution network. They’ll have to meet rigorous standards, including high customer service scores, and set up separate showrooms-within-showrooms for Equus. Specially trained sales personnel will, if a potential customer requests, go to a home or office to pitch the new product.

Meanwhile, when service is needed, an owner will be able to opt for home or office pickup and drop-off, and a Genesis sedan will be provided as a loaner vehicle.

There’ll be an emphasis on technology, down to the classic owner’s manual, which Hyundai plans to replace with a 7-inch video tablet. WiFi-enabled, it will even permit an Equus owner to use the tablet to schedule a service appointment.

So...the goal will be to avoid the showroom service department visit altogether. This can be very expensive, especially if the customer is not that close. When a sales call takes 2-3 hours the sales commission may have to average over $1000 vehicle. There is a reason this isn't common. My MB dealer does the service pickup occasionally. The Ferrari dealer had a flatbed pickup/delivery as the norm for service.
Offering most of the features standard (probably only 2 ways to get options, no four seat option) and prices of $49,500 base and $52,900 with the extra options could have been a better plan. Sold at the dealer with an Azzera/Genesis loaner.

That could sell and get price conscious E-class, 5-Series, A6, M, GS, etc buyers in the showroom. It is quite possible the current strategy will never get awareness in the target market (an Acura RL problem) and just not enough buyers will call.

Note: Do any luxury car buyers list the RL as car they are considering? Acura should have repriced it at $40k or $42.5k with the nav option. Note that it is selling for around $45k with the nav option anyway, but not creating a positive image for Acura. But then my opinion of Honda's incompetent arrogant ways are getting well known.

 

[jwaters943]

I'm sure there will be some sort of mileage limit in much the same way most warranty roadside assistance plans have a mileage limit for towing. They aren't going to drive 100 miles out of their way for an Equus owner to get his oil changed. Hopefully they will be up front and specific about what is/isn't included so as not to anger/frustrate Equus owners.

 

[ajls09873]

btw, I like their Equus Ad.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0XNpKmHnXM"]YouTube- Hyundai Equus 2011 реклама[/nomedia]

 

[ajls09873]

According to russian blog,
The 4.6L Equus price is higher than base model of BMW 7 series, MB S-Class in russia.

http://avtogop.com/site/publication-full/526