Seriously Considering a Super Charger

[bradyb]

First, I am aware of the limitations of the transmission, and will probably need to beef that up(add a modified torque converter)

2nd I am aware of the limitations I may incur with regard to warranty.

What I am looking for is support, suggestions, ideas, brainstorming - etc with regard to adding a paxton style supercharger to my V8 Genesis. Especially in the department of mounting bracket, pulley system, and intake ideas. I like the idea or concept rather of maintaining the ram air.

Im looking at adding a mild boost system, somewhere in the range of 8lbs, and dial it in so it comes on at 600-4000 rpm-ish.

I am already equipped with a borla exhaust to capitalize on the boost.

My goals are to achieve low rpm through mid-range boost while maintaining reliability.

 

[Rey]

I have had Paxton superchargers on several cars over the years. In each instance the boost curve was such that the power increase was marginal at low rpms. Contrasted, displacement superchargers like Kenne Bell and Magnason do produce nice gains at low rpms.

Whatever, I think using your present car for this work will be an exercise in frustration in addition to huge cost. I think the better course might be to consider a new 5.0R with the eight speed transmission. Your present transmission has some strong torque management/limits in first gear, indicating perhaps that the transmission in stock form is near the limit of its power capacity. But if you insist on using your present Genesis, then research amongst ZF transmisison experts on how to strengthen your transmission.

I suggest you search the GM forums to see just who is doing custom supercharger installations, and talk to these installers. It will be expensive. I recall a pioneer install of a Procharger on a Cadillac CTS-V of costing north of $10,000, and that was with the benefit of the installer's previous experience installing Prochargers on the same family of motors.

Suggest you check out Squires Turbo Systems (STS). They do some custom turbos installs, which produce moderate boost. STS's rear mounted turbo may be more doable for you.

 

[msitter]

As far as the transmission goes, there might be some help at how BMW and Jaguar increased the reliability factor in the M(X5M, X6M) and R(XKR, XJR, and XF Supercharged) boosted applications. I believe that they used the ZF early in those model runs and all had substantially more hp, torque and weight to move reliably. The torque converter is not the big problem, the clutches and drums along with internal planetary gear sets are the issue. Boosted applications for the engine could prove equally as challenging. STS turbo systems would be the least expensive starting point because of the simple mounting, but in any of these some sort of ancillary fuel and spark controller would be needed in order for the engine to make more power reliably. I have seen intake mounted 9th injector(kind of like the early GM TPI units used for cold start enrichment) used with a boost sensor and a wide band O2 sensor feeding data to a stand alone fuel control unit to add the necessary fuel aside from the ECU from the factory. A Paxton type would need a specially machined mounting if room could be found and an Eaton style would need a special intake manifold and a redo of the fuel injection plumbing. This would be an impressively expensive project at best or a huge money pit at worst. This is not an impossible task, but remember that off the shelf Camaro and Corvette supercharger setup where the R&D and tooling is done and amortized over thousands of systems will run in the neighborhood of $7k plus installation and a strengthened Hydramatic 6L80E will cost over $6k plus installation again with R&D and tooling spread over thousands of units. Your project addresses all of this with all R&D and tooling costs lumped into one unit.

 

[motorsportsauthority]

I've talked with paxton, and I've strongly considered building this. I've just had such a heavy workload at the shop right now, I haven't been able to make it happen.

 

[motorsportsauthority]

Oh...and the STS setup - no way. I've stared at the under carriage for many many hours. The suspension is just so tight, there's no way to squeeze an adequately sized charge pipe through to the throttle body. I'll admit I'm wrong when someone proves me otherwise, but I can't see it.

 

[bradyb]

Oh...and the STS setup - no way. I've stared at the under carriage for many many hours. The suspension is just so tight, there's no way to squeeze an adequately sized charge pipe through to the throttle body. I'll admit I'm wrong when someone proves me otherwise, but I can't see it.

*sigh***
well maybe I can change the rear gears to get more torque on the ground....*shrug*

any input here folks?

 

[Mark_888]

If it were me, I would rather spend the $10K on lap dances.

 

[pdanrichey]

you're looking at some serious customization...everything has it's price. If you're willing to spend, some shop will get your car to 500rwhp. I mentioned in another post that I haven't seen a lot of beat downs on this engine/tranny as in...what can it do within reason. I have almost 500 rwhp on my SS but that's about all I'll get out of it without going to speed density vs the MAF on my current set up.
The car and engine are relatively new...time will tell whether or not manufacturers will want to mass produce parts or bolt-ons to produce the kinds or results WE ALL would like.
To answer your question about gearing...by all means go ahead. You won't really gain HP but your 60' time at the track could increase. Higher numeric gears will give you better down low power feel but up top you'll sacrifice gas mileage.

For example, in my SS, I have 3.43 gearing...I raced an auto with 4.23 gearing on the highway...HP wise we were about the same. He could beat me up to around 120mph but then it was a murder after that. Ya, he does better at the drag strip but I seldom go so I could care less. For driveability, stock gears are probably best. What kills me is the constant down shift when i let off the gas as I'm going to a stop...weird!

 

[tonygxp]

outside of squeezing maybe a 50 shot of n2o into your car you will be spending tens of thousands into a car that has zero aftermarket support. it would not be wise. my friend owns a performance shop in Toms River specializing on GM vehicles but does plenty of customizing on Dodge, Ford, Subaru, etc. people have come in with Genny coupes and the support is barely breaking out for them (biggest thing is software rewriting, there's none yet..) so they usually just have boltons installed and only gaining minimal performance enhancements because of the non existent tuning. just get a different car if you "need" more. if you are saying the 4.6 isn't enough go buy a G8 GT or a charger/3ooc. plenty of support for those vehicles. see them getting twins, superchargers, heads and cam etc all the time. Tuning is the key, anything can be fabbed up if you got $$$ but not the software (for drivability)

 

[2ez24get]

A better tune of the ECU would provide better power increases. The ECU pulls a tun of timing out during shifts. I have seen 70hp drop between shifts!

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[Gambler]

A better tune of the ECU would provide better power increases. The ECU pulls a tun of timing out during shifts. I have seen 70hp drop between shifts!

Unfortunately there are no known tuners for the Genesis sedan.

 

[itsacrazyasian]

Unfortunately there are no known tuners for the Genesis sedan.

Its only time, really wish they would hurry it up as i see a bunch of these cars on the road. Granted not everyone wants to mod their Genesis but there's plenty that do.

Also if you're gonna do a 50 shot of N2O, it might as well be a 75hp shot.

 

[Aquineas]

I admit there are times when I've longed for a bit more "oomph" from this engine as well... Not enough to spend the 5-10K to change or live with the transformation of my car from from "beautiful, quiet, strong" to "noisy, holy !@H@*!!", however. Good luck though! Talk about stealth machine!

 

[Dr_jitsu]

As someone w/ a ton of forced induction experience (800 rwhp GT2, SC BMW that made 644 rwhp, CTT) let me give you some advice: Don't do forced induction on a motor that was not designed for it, unless going through boatloads of money is not something that bothers you. Also, you would need suspension and brake work. The ZF tranny can be upgraded, but it is not cheap.

It actually would be cheaper to get a 996TT and mod it (the stock block on them will handle up to 800 rwhp).

Another option would be to trade up to the R-spec.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I admit there are times when I've longed for a bit more "oomph" from this engine as well... Not enough to spend the 5-10K to change or live with the transformation of my car from from "beautiful, quiet, strong" to "noisy, holy !@H@*!!", however. Good luck though! Talk about stealth machine!

Thats just for the blower kit...tuning and everything else will more than tripple the cost. Then you will have spent mare that a new Ford GT500 or a used 996TT w/mods yet won't be nearly as fast.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Its only time, really wish they would hurry it up as i see a bunch of these cars on the road. Granted not everyone wants to mod their Genesis but there's plenty that do.

Also if you're gonna do a 50 shot of N2O, it might as well be a 75hp shot.

Nos would be a better choice, IMO, although your heads will not last.

 

[bradyb]

If it were me, I would rather spend the $10K on lap dances.

that's allot of happy endings!