Steering pulls to right

[inmanlanier]

Up in North Carolina. The car drove great. Data below is with me as a passenger in the car on the alignment rack. With me getting out of the car, the front camber became more positive by about 0.2 to 0.3 degrees up front, so with my wife driving the car should be around -.5 / -.5 front camber.
ALIGNMENT NUMBERS:
FRONT
camber (L/R) as-found: -.9/-1.0 degrees. As-left: -0.6/-06. degrees
caster (L/R) as-found: 8.9/8.9 degrees As-left - 7.4 / 8.4 degrees (note 1 degree bias less on left side)
REAR:
camber (L/R) as-found -2.4 degrees/-2.1 degrees. (WAY TOO MUCH IHMO) As left - 1.3/-1.2. I like less, but that's as far as I could adjust.

the front camber was out of spec as delivered. Amazing they don't allow for any adjustments other than toe.

We noted the caster up front was the same side to side before alignment, so with amount the car was pulling to the right we guesstimated around a 0.8 degree bias should work. I was happy with a 1 degree bias not to tweak any more. It worked out fine. On a left crown, the car pulls left. On a moderate crown right (most roads I drive) - the car tracks nice and strait.

We ended up slotting both the lower control arm frame holes (each side) and the tension arm frame holes (each side). We hoped only to do the left side tension arm holes, but had to do the right as well. With my carbide holes, they slotted relatively quickly. The recessed boss around the hole for the nut/bolt head is plenty round so that after adjustments the bolt heads and nuts were not cocked. In general we slotted 1/4" to 3/8" each hole (on the lowers, we slotted inboard so that we could reduce negative camber). On the tension holes, I think we went opposite directions to get the desired caster changes. The car is now fully adjustable. I've attached a sample photo so you can see what was done.

Good job Marcello at Ernie Bello Motorsports in West Palm Beach!

 

[inmanlanier]

I spent some time posting - it didn't stick. Is everyone else as frustrated with today's technology as I???? Update to follow YET AGAIN (and yes, this is a test!)

 

[inmanlanier]

WOW - I posted the test, and the previous post miraculously appeared. Next generation - take it from a smart 'ol Btast - if you don't get this crap fixed by the time you're retired like me you'll be miserable! Oh, well - at least the test worked!

 

[Scottish Guy]

Qne gets frustrated at conflicting statements re steering angles on various " expert " websites, but it's generally accepted [ unless there's a MASSIVE side -to-side difference ] that caster angle has minimal or no effect on straight line stability.

 

[inmanlanier]

Quite the contrary - caster is the predominate influence on strait line stability and pull. I've never heard anyone in the know stating differently. I would doubt the credibility of anyone who says differently. I do agree there is a lot of garbage out there on the internet. I love the 'experts' that claim stuff based on what they've heard with no scientific basis.

 

[Scottish Guy]

Yes , I got that wrong, it was the caster angle's negligible effect on tyre wear I was thinking of.

The slight drift to the left apart, the solid feel of the steering on the Genesis at high speed and the power assistance at parking speeds is the best of any car I've had, must be the electric motor system Hyundai have
used.

 

[inmanlanier]

Yes , I got that wrong, it was the caster angle's negligible effect on tyre wear I was thinking of.

Correct statement.

 

[Scottish Guy]

Yes, to some degree diameter and tire width have effects, all in varying amounts.

OK - quick summary (I'm off to a long drive tomorrow in the car and don't have time) - the long and the short of it is that we were successful. Preliminary driving appears the pull is gone. We ended up slotting 4 locations (same two each side): the two lower control arm frame pivot points (primarily for camber), and the two upper angular member frame holes (primarily for caster). Since the latter two holes will also slightly impact camber, it was an iterative adjustment. I'll post pictures and numbers later. Now the front suspension is completely adjustable as it should have been from Genesis. I'll likely give them feedback (less than positive) about me spending a couple of hundred dollars for their $5 savings on the assembly line; it's not what should happen.

The disappointing part was the rear - I don't know why they have alignment specs with 1 1/2 degrees negative these days but that's it. It's way too much - we're not racing and that only wears out the inner edges. I was only able to adjust the rear down to 1.2 degrees negative.

Likely Monday I'll post details and photos.

I too tried removing the 4 bolts securing the top coil spring casting and putting washers behind them
to increase positive caster, but couldn't prise the casting away from the frame enough to do the bottom two
holes but I did put 6mm of shims in the top two holes and it has made a slight difference.

How did you manage to move the casting away from the tower and access the holes ?

 

[inmanlanier]

Hmmm. Perhaps you read my old thread on my '11 Genesis where we did exactly what you attempted. We did NOT attempt to shim the casting for my 2015 that I talk about in this thread.

For this car (the 2015), instead we did NOT mess with the cast bracket (that's one approach) - instead we went to the different control arms that would impact adjustment and slotted their holes. See the July 2 posting above. When I speak of 'frame' above - I'm referring to the chassis. We did not touch the cast plate - we took 4 of the arms and slotted the holes at the other end of said arms where they attach to the chassis (outboard and forward).

 

[Skill]

I have a 2018 G80 which I brought brand new is now having the pulling left problem. There is only 9K on the vehicle and I live in Fl like you so as you know pot holes and bad roads are far and few. Of course I'm at the beginning stage with the dealer on trying to rectify this issue but it seems as though they don't have a clue on what to do.
I truly believe there has to be a parameter problem in this new type of electronic steering design.

Curious to know if you notice any significant tire wear before you did any modification?

I honestly don't want to modify this car cause it's way too new but sounds like what you did work. I might have to look into Ernie Bello Motorsports to rectify this problem.

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[inmanlanier]

Away in NOLA for the weekend. No to tire wear. If you PM me I'll give you my phone number and we can discuss your issues.

 

[G-797767]

Hi all,

I have the 2015 5.0 with around 3000 miles, and my car is pulling to the right. I've found similar issues in the with gen 1 Genesis or the coupe forum, but could not find similar issues in the gen 2 forum.

I have rotated the staggered tires side to side, and also brought it to the dealer. The dealer acknowledged the issue with the initial alignment, and readjusted to the "factory spec", but the car still veers to the right (even considering the road crown). The dealer blames it on the tires, but I don't think the tires are the issue. I wanted to ask if others faced similar issues.. Thanks!

I have a 2011 Genesis same issue. I bought the lifetime alignment it's worth it.

 

[inmanlanier]

Most likely the dealer's alignment person is clueless. Ask him to show you all 3 alignment parameters - if you read the top of the 2nd page you'd see mine were WAY out. Unfortunately the vast majority of alignment folks today only understand 'toe-and-go'. They don't understand what camber and caster do, nor do they have the patience nor desire to spend the time needed to get them right (when you CAN adjust them all).
Hyundai designed a sophisticated front suspension geometry, then did not slot the holes or enable any adjustment other than toe. Like many manufacturers, they dupe themselves into believing they can manufacture all the cards to very tight assembly line tolerances, then never check or tweak down the road to enable the cars to be in spec. Not designing in the slots for adjustment is absolution stupid.
And G-797767 - sorry - but a 'lifetime alignment' won't help you if you are out of spec unless you can convince them to modify the chassis holes.
Unfortunately if you want this resolved, I'm afraid the approach I took (top of page 2) is the only solution. We now have about 37,000 miles on our car and it tracks strait as an arrow.

 

[Vaidhy]

@inmanlanier would you happen to have alignment spec for 09 sedan? I'm assuming it must be the same as '11 Genesis you had? The factory spec alignment that makes the car pull right bothers my OCD way too much. Thanks!

 

[inmanlanier]

I'm also assuming that the '09 specs are the same as the '11 specs, however I do remember that Sachs (the German company sub-contracted from Hyundai to help design/tune this suspension) encouraged a revision to the suspension around the 2011 time frame. This should not have changed the basic alignment specs, however because tires need to track true to wear properly. The factory spec alignment does NOT make the cars pull. There is an oddity about the suspension design in that particular design that seems to contribute to a right pull (I think related to tires taking a set - no serious analysis to back this gut feel) - no one has ever figured out why or how - I simply learned to manage the symptom by biasing the caster to compensate.

The crappy non-adjustable suspension on these cars causes some odd-ball tire anomalies that ultimately end up in this arena. I also had an '011. I don't remember the specs (I'm sure they are our there in etherspace somewhere), however the way we solved my '11 alignment issues was to shim behind the cast steel suspension bracket that bolted to the frame. See this posting I made a few years ago: How to adjust caster and camber 2011 4.6

 

[Vaidhy]

Got it, thanks!

 

[Skill]

I found the Hyundai dealership are servicing Genesis' G80s but not fully up to speed on what it takes to maintain one. I took the dealer to go through 3 sets of tires, 5 alignments and different tire pressure adjustments before they found out the electronic steering has an alignment procedure all its own. Once they aligned the steering box/rack electronically then the pulling went away.

Ask about the alignment of the electronic steering when your car drifts even after they aligned the car.

 

[inmanlanier]

Please clarify what you mean by 'drifts'. Are you saying that down a strait road the steering wheel is properly centered (while the car tracks strait) - and if you let go of the wheel, it will then 'drift' to the right or left on it's own?

 

[Skill]

I'm saying if you hold the steering wheel straight (my G80) drifted to the left. It didn't matter which side the crown of the road is, the car would drift left when you expect it to stay straight. Gets more noticeable at higher speeds. If a person has LKAS activated then they would probably not notice the problem.

 

[Skill]

Please clarify what you mean by 'drifts'. Are you saying that down a strait road the steering wheel is properly centered (while the car tracks strait) - and if you let go of the wheel, it will then 'drift' to the right or left on it's own?