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Things I don't miss about ICE vehicles

In the overall scheme of things, it will make no difference to Planet Earth whether H0m0 Sapiens has EVs or ICEs. What will make a huge difference is billions ditching 20kg bicycles/100kg motorbikes etc and aspiring to 1500kg vehicles.
 
No one on this forum has suggested EVs are some panacea - they aren’t. They are a marginal to moderate improvement over ICEs, depending on the grid from which they are charged. Environmental benefits were not my primary decision factor in getting the GV60, but is something I appreciate.

As Sampras said (and they referred to in the podcast Alfer linked without listening to) mining isn’t great, regardless of the target. Lately, research seems to be consistently coming down on the side that EVs are a net environmental good - unless driven within a very carbon-intense electrical grid.
Environmental benefits didn’t weigh into my purchase decision. There aren’t a great number of options of performance oriented compact SUVs with good fuel economy. Some hybrids have promise, but their powertrain doesn’t feel refined and the noise from most CVT transmissions is dreadful.

I owned an Alfa Romeo Tonale for a few months and it was sometimes fun to drive but other times the powertrain switching between gas and electric was sloppy and unpredictable. Thankfully it wound up being a lemon and was bought back by Stellantis.

So, full BEV was the next option to try and the immediate torque, linear power delivery, and quiet powertrain were what sold me.

Today’s EVs aren’t for everyone, but electric motors are the most efficient way of delivering power to the road. Also, as with any technology, early adopters help fund advancements and refinements. That’s why Tesla sold their roadster back in 2008. Solid state batteries are starting to show up in small consumer products and larger portable power stations. Things will continue to improve over time.
 
Yes, we all know that most motor vehicles are not true investments with any hope of appreciating. However, most of us do care that our vehicles hold value and don’t become white elephants overnight.
I just bought flights to Costa Rica. I didn't do so based on their resale value. I did it because I thought the enjoyment I'd receive from the purchase was worth the cost. I buy vehicles using similar considerations.
The depreciation argument is a weak one - as it similarly serves as a benefit to a second owner of buying the same vehicle. It's also largely irrelevant for anyone that keeps their vehicle for ~5+ years. Much more important is total cost of ownership, and EVs have a clear advantage in operating costs due to fuel and maintenance costing a fraction of what they do for ICEs.
Depending on one's situation, insurance can be a bit of a hit, though.
 
Hump? You mean that thing that is now a center console? Good portion of the cars on the road today are FWD but you still can't sit three across like the old Chevy.
Now you are bringing back memories. Sitting in the driver's seat with a girl friend snuggled next to me and a little wheel on the steering wheel for one hand steering (no power steering back then). Of course there were no seat belts and sitting in a moving car was a form of suicide but what the heck...it was fun.
 
Here's why people are questioning your motives. You agree that most used cars, including your own, depreciate in value. But you felt the need to come to an EV board and post in an ICE thread a message that essentially says "haha, your vehicle is depreciating faster than my vehicle!"

In fact, it was so important for you to rub our noses in it that you posted the same article TWICE and have brought it up on your own at least two additional times. I have no idea why you'd enjoy the misfortune of others and then go out of your way to let them know you're enjoying it.

It's true that EVs do depreciate quickly, but it's almost exactly the same rate at which luxury cars depreciate (49% to 48.1% over 5 years, while Hyundai's are a little better at 40-45% over that same period depending on the model).

My question to you is this: do you also go to BMW boards and post "Hi everyone, Hyundai owner here, I see your Beemers depreciate faster than my car does...that's too bad for you!" in a random thread? If not, why do you do it here on an EV board?
This is a Genesis group.
 
No one on this forum has suggested EVs are some panacea - they aren’t. They are a marginal to moderate improvement over ICEs, depending on the grid from which they are charged. Environmental benefits were not my primary decision factor in getting the GV60, but is something I appreciate.

As Sampras said (and they referred to in the podcast Alfer linked without listening to) mining isn’t great, regardless of the target. Lately, research seems to be consistently coming down on the side that EVs are a net environmental good - unless driven within a very carbon-intense electrical grid.

In all these arguments I've seen about the environmental impact of current EVs vs ICE vehicles, you frequently see people citing facts about the impact of mining the minerals required for the batteries, or the impact of emissions in the electricity supply. I rarely, if ever, have seen someone include the environmental impact of oil and gas extraction or the mining associated the raw materials and energy expended for manufacturing a gas engine.

Never seen someone complain about the impact of open pit mining of iron ore or aluminum used for making engine blocks, heads, transmissions etc. Yes, those materials are also used on making EV motors, along with copper. But I'm guessing there's much less iron and aluminum in an EV drive train. Not to mention the machining and processing of parts. A conventional transmission is full of hardened steel gears etc. Hardening is typically done using extreme amount of heat - which requires a ton of energy.

And then there's the impact of the oil and gas sector. It takes a huge amount of time, energy and resources to extract, process and transport crude oil and turn it into natural gas. Not to mention the impacts of accidents like the Deep Water Horizon, Exxon Valdez, Kuwait oil fires etc.

My point being, I don't think I ever seen a fully comprehensive analysis done comparing the entire lifecycle of both types of vehicles. And as others have pointed out, the current tech of EVs and the batteries are more than likely a transition technology. I think electric propulsion is going to become the standard for a long time to come, but the energy storage source will change. Whether it's solid state batteries, hydrogen fuel cells or nuclear fusion.
 
It's so true. It's interesting to hear some people suddenly concerned about mining that never were before. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that many of these same people are against EPA regulations, or even the EPA in general. Their motivations are very transparent and disingenuous.
 
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Guys. have you never seen a troll before? This guy will carefully craft his response based on yours to be the most offensive thing he thinks you will respond to. The only way to stop them is to ignore them and they won't be able to find pleasure in your response/continue to troll. Let's get back on topic and talk about your own experiences on comparisons with ice cars. May I suggest you include a small blurb on why you bought your car and what use case you have ? (Hwy driving vs city driving) .

I got my car because of rising record gas prices and low priced electricity in my area. I do live in one of those rare areas where both sides made it perfect to own an EV. My initial thought was to get a plug in hybrid but it was still during the peak of vehicle shortages, and a new car woulda been a 2 year wait. I drive mostly city, with the occasional mini road trip (100ish km). and I've currently driven around 18k km.

Given my circumstance, I believe I had 0 use for an ICE car. Most nights I charge my own car to 70% and i will get home with over 50%. The occasional mini road trips I go on will usually use up at MOST 40% of my charge, and that usually after i get quite tired of driving. I have an ICE car in storage for use during the winter time that I drove for 14 years. I don't miss the droning noise that (I truly believe I just got used to tuning out when I was driving it as a primary car). I don't miss the actual small reaction time of the transmission, in which it needs to downshift to speed up. I don't miss the tiny gear change jolts when driving. Switching to specifically this car has been a dream. Comfort level is through the roof for me. If i'm not being dumb, acceleration and deceleration has been smoother than butter. And the instant response to the pedal is ridiculously good. I spend a LOT of time idling in the car, even back when I was using gas, so there was always this feeling of burning away my money when I need AC to get comfortable. That feeling's also gone. It's hard to go back to a pure ICE car at this point. Unless electricity prices dramatically go up, or if hybrid prices dramatically drop. And even then, hybrids probably as far back as i'd be willing to go back to.
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Guys. have you never seen a troll before? This guy will carefully craft his response based on yours to be the most offensive thing he thinks you will respond to. The only way to stop them is to ignore them and they won't be able to find pleasure in your response/continue to troll. Let's get back on topic and talk about your own experiences on comparisons with ice cars. May I suggest you include a small blurb on why you bought your car and what use case you have ? (Hwy driving vs city driving) .

I got my car because of rising record gas prices and low priced electricity in my area. I do live in one of those rare areas where both sides made it perfect to own an EV. My initial thought was to get a plug in hybrid but it was still during the peak of vehicle shortages, and a new car woulda been a 2 year wait. I drive mostly city, with the occasional mini road trip (100ish km). and I've currently driven around 18k km.

Given my circumstance, I believe I had 0 use for an ICE car. Most nights I charge my own car to 70% and i will get home with over 50%. The occasional mini road trips I go on will usually use up at MOST 40% of my charge, and that usually after i get quite tired of driving. I have an ICE car in storage for use during the winter time that I drove for 14 years. I don't miss the droning noise that (I truly believe I just got used to tuning out when I was driving it as a primary car). I don't miss the actual small reaction time of the transmission, in which it needs to downshift to speed up. I don't miss the tiny gear change jolts when driving. Switching to specifically this car has been a dream. Comfort level is through the roof for me. If i'm not being dumb, acceleration and deceleration has been smoother than butter. And the instant response to the pedal is ridiculously good. I spend a LOT of time idling in the car, even back when I was using gas, so there was always this feeling of burning away my money when I need AC to get comfortable. That feeling's also gone. It's hard to go back to a pure ICE car at this point. Unless electricity prices dramatically go up, or if hybrid prices dramatically drop. And even then, hybrids probably as far back as i'd be willing to go back to.
Yeah, unfortunately this thread has become a troll magnet.
 
Yeah, unfortunately this thread has become a troll magnet.
Yeah. To get things back on track, here are my LISTS.

Things I don’t miss about my ICEs
  • Inconsistent power delivery as motor goes in/out of power band
  • Noise when driving around town, especially with a cold motor (wind and tire noise dominates at highway speeds, making the two largely the same)
  • Having to wait for the car to heat up when it’s cold outside (my son and I took another car to get a Christmas tree last year, a couple minutes in he complained that I hadn’t turned on the heat. I told him we had to wait for the engine to heat up before we’d get heat)
  • Delays in throttle response while transmission downshifted and engine/turbos got where they needed to be
  • Automatic transmissions not finding the right gear when I want to GO
  • Occasionally having fuel spill when refueling because something caused the auto shut-off to fail
  • Having to pay for gasoline. (I’m running at <1 cent/km for fuel costs so far)

Things I really like that I couldn’t do with my ICE
  • Scheduled pre-conditioning. It’s sweet having the car ready every morning when I leave for the office. I just wish Genesis hadn’t forgotten the seats…
  • Powering our trailer with the car

Things I do miss about my ICEs
  • Simplicity of road tripping. Not having to plan ahead. Not having to worry about whether a charger will work as it should when I arrive.
  • The sweet sound of a well-tuned exhaust note and the other rumbles and barks a good performance car makes.
  • Being able to tinker/ improve the performance of the car.
 
In the overall scheme of things, it will make no difference to Planet Earth whether H0m0 Sapiens has EVs or ICEs. What will make a huge difference is billions ditching 20kg bicycles/100kg motorbikes etc and aspiring to 1500kg vehicles.

I'm certainly not ditching my 12kg Lapierre MTB in favor of a car, it certainly has a different sense of fun than simply pushing a gas pedal, lol.

I see people talking about transmissions on ICE lacking. While this is true for older cars with 5-speed transmissions, it actually doesn't carry too much truth for the cars this forum is about. Like if you were to watch the speedometer and tachometer concurrently in a 3.3T while accelerating, it doesn't stall in speed at all. It keeps going at throttle, even while shifting up. This is because the gearbox has pretty low times during the gear changes. Like it actually swaps the gears but the tachometer makes you think it's taking longer.

However, ideally in an EV you do all the speed in a single gear. This is great especially for cruising at lower speeds, if an EV passes you by on the street, it wouldn't have the sound notes of an ICE. It goes like a moped, but they're adding fake noises to make pedestrians be aware of the vehicle. Of course, the worst part of the ICE is the smell. If your vehicle sits in a closed garage with other cars, this becomes a bigger problem. You don't want to smell carbon monoxide for long as you can die from being poisoned out of the blue.
 
  • My last ICE car was an AMG. The transmission supposedly shifted gears in 10ms. My comments weren’t about the gap between shifts - which I agree are largely gone in newer vehicles - they were about the time between I decided to mash the gas peddle and the transmission and engine were where they needed to be to optimally deliver power.
  • Once, while at a charger, a Tesla pulled up to charge, and sounded like it was idling with a very lumpy cam. Very cool.
  • I’ve read articles in recent years that would suggest that it would be nearly impossible for someone to accidentally die from CO poisoning because emissions control equipment is now so effective - that it’s now more likely that CO2 would get someone first.
 
  • My last ICE car was an AMG. The transmission supposedly shifted gears in 10ms. My comments weren’t about the gap between shifts - which I agree are largely gone in newer vehicles - they were about the time between I decided to mash the gas peddle and the transmission and engine were where they needed to be to optimally deliver power.
  • Once, while at a charger, a Tesla pulled up to charge, and sounded like it was idling with a very lumpy cam. Very cool.
  • I’ve read articles in recent years that would suggest that it would be nearly impossible for someone to accidentally die from CO poisoning because emissions control equipment is now so effective - that it’s now more likely that CO2 would get someone first.

Yeah but that's not the transmission, that's more like pedal lag. Like some turbocharged cars have it a lot, you push the pedal fully but it's all dead for a moment, then the power starts coming.

EVs obviously do have a noise, it sounds like supercharged whine when it's natural at high RPMs. Think something like a high end EV bike. Though most the EV sounds you hear on the low end are actually fake notes.

You can actually get poisoned from it, if you leave the car on for some reason such as certain diagnose procedures in a closed environment without proper ventilation, your lungs will hug up all the particles in the gas, eventually you'll no longer be able to stand it and pass out. Though you can feel the smell inside of you before that happens. Diesel can also cause it. It has more cobalt than carbon monoxide, which is also dangerous for you. Though, cobalt is more dangerous towards the environment like plants than carbon monoxide. I'd say it'd be easier for that to happen with a petrol car, one that especially has clogged cylinders. The cars that burn oil get up there faster than those new engines that have very little smell.
 
I'm certainly not ditching my 12kg Lapierre MTB in favor of a car, it certainly has a different sense of fun than simply pushing a gas pedal, lol.

I see people talking about transmissions on ICE lacking. While this is true for older cars with 5-speed transmissions, it actually doesn't carry too much truth for the cars this forum is about. Like if you were to watch the speedometer and tachometer concurrently in a 3.3T while accelerating, it doesn't stall in speed at all. It keeps going at throttle, even while shifting up. This is because the gearbox has pretty low times during the gear changes. Like it actually swaps the gears but the tachometer makes you think it's taking longer.

However, ideally in an EV you do all the speed in a single gear. This is great especially for cruising at lower speeds, if an EV passes you by on the street, it wouldn't have the sound notes of an ICE. It goes like a moped, but they're adding fake noises to make pedestrians be aware of the vehicle. Of course, the worst part of the ICE is the smell. If your vehicle sits in a closed garage with other cars, this becomes a bigger problem. You don't want to smell carbon monoxide for long as you can die from being poisoned out of the blue.
My post was suggesting that the overall consumption of "stuff" is going increase exponentially with millions shifting from lighter transport such as bicycles to heavier vehicles.
It was nothing about transmissions.
And with catalytic converters, CO poisoning issues are pretty much history.
Or have I missed taking something??
 
My post was suggesting that the overall consumption of "stuff" is going increase exponentially with millions shifting from lighter transport such as bicycles to heavier vehicles.
It was nothing about transmissions.
And with catalytic converters, CO poisoning issues are pretty much history.
Or have I missed taking something??
While catalytic converters do reduce some CO and CO2 emissions:
1. They first have warm up to very high temperatures to reduce those pollutants (that’s why all modern cars stink when initially started up).
2. They are made from precious mined metals and are being stolen in record numbers.
I don’t miss a stinky/toxic garage after starting our ICE cars.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions from a Typical Passenger Vehicle | US EPA
 
Well, I don't know what ICE you might have driven, but my 1.0 litre efficient, economical turbo ICE leaves no stink in the garage.
I thnk batteries and electric motors also contain precious mined metals. Pot kettle black.
 
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